improvement without ground clearance reduction
12-01-2008, 12:04 PM
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improvement without ground clearance reduction
Greetings, interest one question: there are some variants of improvement of a suspension:
1. Installation of coilovers
2. Installation of springs and absorbers
3. Installation of more rigid absorbers on standard springs
I Wish to get council concerning last two variants. The first disappears because of excessive fuss with installation of corners of a camber.
The purpose - to remove tenderness of the car on road without ground clearance reduction.
Who can prompt what particularly more rigid springs and absorbers it is possible to use, marks and numbers. For Acura TL 2004 AT
Thanks.
1. Installation of coilovers
2. Installation of springs and absorbers
3. Installation of more rigid absorbers on standard springs
I Wish to get council concerning last two variants. The first disappears because of excessive fuss with installation of corners of a camber.
The purpose - to remove tenderness of the car on road without ground clearance reduction.
Who can prompt what particularly more rigid springs and absorbers it is possible to use, marks and numbers. For Acura TL 2004 AT
Thanks.
Last edited by greenga; 12-01-2008 at 12:05 PM. Reason: remark
12-01-2008, 12:24 PM
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Koni Yellow shocks set on the stock perch height. Add '07 - '08 Springs for stock height but increased firmness.
Koni's dampners are adjustable from soft to firm.
Koni Part# is: 8041 1322 (L/R) Sport (front) and 8041 1329 Sport (rear).
TL-S Springs Part # is: 52441-SEP-A13 (rear) and 51401-SEP-A31 (front).
Also consider Progress 24mm Rear Sway bar for improved handling with either stock or upgraded suspension. Part # 62.0110.
Koni's dampners are adjustable from soft to firm.
Koni Part# is: 8041 1322 (L/R) Sport (front) and 8041 1329 Sport (rear).
TL-S Springs Part # is: 52441-SEP-A13 (rear) and 51401-SEP-A31 (front).
Also consider Progress 24mm Rear Sway bar for improved handling with either stock or upgraded suspension. Part # 62.0110.
Last edited by Bearcat94; 12-01-2008 at 12:26 PM.
12-01-2008, 12:51 PM
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I have correctly understood?
1. TL-S Springs 07-08
2. Koni Yellow shocks
And now there is some theory:
But the car can and to be underestimated. It means that springs can remain and regular. Then this stage it is possible to pass and replace at once absorbers. At easy tuning of a suspender (initial level) often and do. Even having put the absorbers which are in the bottom of a lineup of tuning absorbers of this or that manufacturer, it is possible to receive appreciable improvement of road performance at hardly appreciable loss of comfort. We will tell, KYB New SR Special or yellow Bilstein Sport.
It is a little figures.
Rigidity of springs, suitable for daily driving, is usually within 10-12 kg/mm for передка. It is necessary to notice that on передке (and shock-absorbers) almost always essentially are more rigid than a spring, than behind. To me two exceptions from this among Japanese cars are known only is Nissan Skyline GT-R and Honda Integra DC5. Therefore I usually speak about передке, meaning that behind a spring in 1.5-2 times is softer. Rigidity of springs also depends on car weight for which they are intended. We will tell, standard springs from complete set TEIN Type HR for the Prelude - 12/8 kg/mm (before/back). The Same complete set for the Chord - 10/6. For Sivika if memory does not say lies me - 8/6 or 8/5 kg/mm. I can tell that driving on the Chord (is more exact, Ascot Innova) with springs on передке 12 kg/mm and соответсвующими shock-absorbers TEIN Type HR is big loading on a backbone. And after all on sale it is possible to meet complete sets and in 16 kg, and in 20. But it already obviously purely ring complete sets, on road on them to leave it is simply unsafe. Why?
Because excessively the rigid suspension is suitable only for very good roads. Than more rigidly - that it should be is better expensive. On the wavy or broken road the rigid suspension works badly. The car simply flies over poles, constantly losing clutch with road. If the action takes place in turning movement - it is possible to "departure" for its limits. Route experience has shown that for the car of a class of the Chord, ruggedness in 12 kg/mm on передке is a limit. More - it is not necessary. Better even less. We will tell, 8-10 kg/mm - are optimum. For example, such heavy car as Skajlajn GT-R BNR32, on complete set OHLINS with ruggedness of 8/6 kg/mm (before/back) on usual roads has proved to be perfectly well. At all ruggedness was not felt, a backbone did not shake - and thus the car was excellent steered. Certainly, here it is necessary to make the amendment that it - not a family sedan, let even if it and made by Honda is all the same the thoroughbred sports car created that it is fine to be steered. But nevertheless. And here if to compare Ascot Innova about 12 kg/mm and Torneo SiR about 5 kg/mm (TEIN Type Wagon) comparison turns out ambiguous. Ambiguity consists that 12 kg are slightly more than it is necessary, and here 5 kg are much less, than it is necessary. On line SiR emerges on waves and it is shaken at all less, than on стоковой to a suspender. It also heels all the same strongly. So, probably, for the Chord class 8-10 kg/mm will be optimum.
the question - What rigidity on TL-S and TL?
sorry for bad language
1. TL-S Springs 07-08
2. Koni Yellow shocks
And now there is some theory:
But the car can and to be underestimated. It means that springs can remain and regular. Then this stage it is possible to pass and replace at once absorbers. At easy tuning of a suspender (initial level) often and do. Even having put the absorbers which are in the bottom of a lineup of tuning absorbers of this or that manufacturer, it is possible to receive appreciable improvement of road performance at hardly appreciable loss of comfort. We will tell, KYB New SR Special or yellow Bilstein Sport.
It is a little figures.
Rigidity of springs, suitable for daily driving, is usually within 10-12 kg/mm for передка. It is necessary to notice that on передке (and shock-absorbers) almost always essentially are more rigid than a spring, than behind. To me two exceptions from this among Japanese cars are known only is Nissan Skyline GT-R and Honda Integra DC5. Therefore I usually speak about передке, meaning that behind a spring in 1.5-2 times is softer. Rigidity of springs also depends on car weight for which they are intended. We will tell, standard springs from complete set TEIN Type HR for the Prelude - 12/8 kg/mm (before/back). The Same complete set for the Chord - 10/6. For Sivika if memory does not say lies me - 8/6 or 8/5 kg/mm. I can tell that driving on the Chord (is more exact, Ascot Innova) with springs on передке 12 kg/mm and соответсвующими shock-absorbers TEIN Type HR is big loading on a backbone. And after all on sale it is possible to meet complete sets and in 16 kg, and in 20. But it already obviously purely ring complete sets, on road on them to leave it is simply unsafe. Why?
Because excessively the rigid suspension is suitable only for very good roads. Than more rigidly - that it should be is better expensive. On the wavy or broken road the rigid suspension works badly. The car simply flies over poles, constantly losing clutch with road. If the action takes place in turning movement - it is possible to "departure" for its limits. Route experience has shown that for the car of a class of the Chord, ruggedness in 12 kg/mm on передке is a limit. More - it is not necessary. Better even less. We will tell, 8-10 kg/mm - are optimum. For example, such heavy car as Skajlajn GT-R BNR32, on complete set OHLINS with ruggedness of 8/6 kg/mm (before/back) on usual roads has proved to be perfectly well. At all ruggedness was not felt, a backbone did not shake - and thus the car was excellent steered. Certainly, here it is necessary to make the amendment that it - not a family sedan, let even if it and made by Honda is all the same the thoroughbred sports car created that it is fine to be steered. But nevertheless. And here if to compare Ascot Innova about 12 kg/mm and Torneo SiR about 5 kg/mm (TEIN Type Wagon) comparison turns out ambiguous. Ambiguity consists that 12 kg are slightly more than it is necessary, and here 5 kg are much less, than it is necessary. On line SiR emerges on waves and it is shaken at all less, than on стоковой to a suspender. It also heels all the same strongly. So, probably, for the Chord class 8-10 kg/mm will be optimum.
the question - What rigidity on TL-S and TL?
sorry for bad language
12-01-2008, 01:06 PM
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Sorry, I don't understand most of what you are saying, but:
Yes, you could change springs only for a some improvement of suspension perfomance with little loss in comfort. Most aftermarket springs will lower the ride height. A TL-S spring will not. No one knows the specific Spring Rate for the TL vs the TL-S. What we do know is what Acura/Honda tells us:
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/735/releases/3745
You could also swap out the entire '04 Shock/Spring for an '07/'08 TL-S Shock/Spring.
The advantage of the Koni yellow is the adjustable damper valving - you can tune the damping to suit your needs. IOW - they are NOT "excessively rigid" unless you make them so.
Hope that helps.
BTW - do have a Manual or Automatic transmission? I am guessing you have the 6MT transmission?
Yes, you could change springs only for a some improvement of suspension perfomance with little loss in comfort. Most aftermarket springs will lower the ride height. A TL-S spring will not. No one knows the specific Spring Rate for the TL vs the TL-S. What we do know is what Acura/Honda tells us:
.....
Features exclusive to the TL Type-S include:
- Increased damping rates for superior handling
- Rear spring rate increased
.....
Although the automatic and manual transmission Type-S models have the same suspension settings, the rear spring rate has been increased 33 percent on vehicles equipped with a manual transmission, 14 percent on vehicles mated with automatic transmissions.
....
Features exclusive to the TL Type-S include:
- Increased damping rates for superior handling
- Rear spring rate increased
.....
Although the automatic and manual transmission Type-S models have the same suspension settings, the rear spring rate has been increased 33 percent on vehicles equipped with a manual transmission, 14 percent on vehicles mated with automatic transmissions.
....
You could also swap out the entire '04 Shock/Spring for an '07/'08 TL-S Shock/Spring.
The advantage of the Koni yellow is the adjustable damper valving - you can tune the damping to suit your needs. IOW - they are NOT "excessively rigid" unless you make them so.
Hope that helps.
BTW - do have a Manual or Automatic transmission? I am guessing you have the 6MT transmission?
12-01-2008, 01:19 PM
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Automatic transmission
@Sorry, I don't understand most of what you are saying, but:@
)))))))))))))))))))) don`t know terms, automatic translator translates porridge(bad)
@Sorry, I don't understand most of what you are saying, but:@
)))))))))))))))))))) don`t know terms, automatic translator translates porridge(bad)
12-01-2008, 01:23 PM
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could you say me thickness of front sway bar on TL 04, as i know TL-s has 27,2 mm
have ordered Progress 24mm Rear Sway, but there is some problems with delivery, hope to get it soon
have ordered Progress 24mm Rear Sway, but there is some problems with delivery, hope to get it soon
Last edited by greenga; 12-01-2008 at 01:28 PM.
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12-01-2008, 02:14 PM
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.....
1.0 in. diameter / 0.18 in. wall thickness
(25.4 mm) x (4.5 mm)
....
1.0 in. diameter / 0.18 in. wall thickness
(25.4 mm) x (4.5 mm)
....
That is a hollow bar.
TL-S bar is solid, 27,0 mm.
Changing the Front Sway bar is difficult as it runs inboard of the subframe. Further I have not seen anyone able to explain what performance advantage could be gained by changing the Front Sway Bar.
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/...1?archive=2007
Last edited by Bearcat94; 12-01-2008 at 02:17 PM.
12-02-2008, 03:20 PM
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http://www.hondanews.com/categories/...5?archive=2004
Changing the Front Sway bar is difficult as it runs inboard of the subframe. Further I have not seen anyone able to explain what performance advantage could be gained by changing the Front Sway Bar.
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/...1?archive=2007
Changing the Front Sway bar is difficult as it runs inboard of the subframe. Further I have not seen anyone able to explain what performance advantage could be gained by changing the Front Sway Bar.
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/...1?archive=2007
try to read this, mkII - is the man who can explain all about suspension
tranlator: http://www.online-translator.com/Def...xt?prmtlang=en
The increase in the front sway bar conducts to understeer increase,
understeer is more safe than oversteer, therefore motor-car manufacturers do such characteristics, neutral characteristics - here that to what all aspire
12-02-2008, 03:35 PM
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Yes. But the TL is Front Wheel Drive and already has a LOT of understeer. Increasing understeer serves no meaningful purpose on this car, so changing the Front Sway Bar is not only difficult, but without purpose.
Changing only the Rear Sway Bar will reduce understeer, but NOT remove/eliminate understeer. You make the car closer to neutral.
So, you still have a safety factor with some understeer preference. And, with a stiffer Rear Sway Bar, you also get improved turning performance.
Also, on your original #3 - yes, you could add a Koni shock or a TL-S shock and retain the Original springs. That may be a very nice set up.
12-03-2008, 06:32 AM
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Yes. But the TL is Front Wheel Drive and already has a LOT of understeer. Increasing understeer serves no meaningful purpose on this car, so changing the Front Sway Bar is not only difficult, but without purpose.
Changing only the Rear Sway Bar will reduce understeer, but NOT remove/eliminate understeer. You make the car closer to neutral.
So, you still have a safety factor with some understeer preference. And, with a stiffer Rear Sway Bar, you also get improved turning performance.
Also, on your original #3 - yes, you could add a Koni shock or a TL-S shock and retain the Original springs. That may be a very nice set up.
Changing only the Rear Sway Bar will reduce understeer, but NOT remove/eliminate understeer. You make the car closer to neutral.
So, you still have a safety factor with some understeer preference. And, with a stiffer Rear Sway Bar, you also get improved turning performance.
Also, on your original #3 - yes, you could add a Koni shock or a TL-S shock and retain the Original springs. That may be a very nice set up.
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