whitegdb

Today I helped my brother install these springs on his TL and everything went pretty smooth, thanks to these forums. Atfer the install he test drove it around the block, but when he came back we noticed that every wheel had a two finger gap except for the driver's side rear, which had a one finger gap. I usually measure the before and after when I lower my cars, but didn't this time. Big mistake, cause it might have been uneven to begin with.

Well, I've spent the last hour searching and haven't found anyone else with the same problem. Any ideas as to why there's an uneven gap? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

whitegdb

I just noticed that was my first post after almost three years. Talk about being inactive

Bearcat94

- Double check that all springs are the same model number (stampled on each spring);

- Big stereo/sub enclosure installed on that corner or other weight in the trunk;

- All springs properly seated in their perches;

- All Springs properly aligned to the strut/top hat;

- All nuts/bolts torqued to spec with the suspension jacked to simulate load.

Can't think of anything else to check.

FiveLiterCheater

Maybe they need to settle...?

ABP_04TL

iTrader: (2)

^^ i think he has a point... try drivin thru lil bumps and stuff

Bearcat94

Mine have settled some, BUT why would he have just one corner that was lower than the other 3? Mine have all been similar from the 1st day.

enigmaos

iTrader: (4)

maybe the seller packed wrong springs.

whitegdb

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. It looks like after a full day of driving, all the other corners have settled down and the car is now level. It was just concerning that one corner was a 1/2' lower than the rest.

ABP_04TL

iTrader: (2)

told ya it had 2 settle down... remember Patience is the KEY 2 SUCCESS lol

mmade22

At least it wasn't crappy luck like me who ordered TL springs and I got accord springs. Didn't notice the part number difference until it was on the car. So I am swapping out the springs this weekend with the right ones. Double check the part #'s before you put the springs in.

whitegdb

^ actually it was crappy luck like you. After enigmaos suggested I check and I found your thread, I stuck a flash light in the fender gap and sure enough 51808 was on all the springs and 50104 was on the box.

I'm willing to bet our springs were made in October and a working was being too festive during Octoberfest.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

accord springs aren't the end of the world, I am rollin on them now, I replied on ur other thread regardin emailing h&r

mmade22

WOW!!!! I don't wish that on anyone. Did you get it from acuratlparts.com or somewhere else? I am getting the right ones today, just waiting for UPS. I rented the tools again and I am going to have a helping hand (Bearcat) do it with me. It should go much faster having another person do one side while I do the other. I just measured my car and I am also uneven all around. I am still waiting on Mike to let me know if the rear springs for the accord are the same as the TL. Otherwise, it's going to be another 6 hours of work. I am going to change the fronts first and see how she sits but I think for good measure, I am going to do all four. I charge 90 dollars an hour for what I do for work, so I should charge H&R 540 dollars for this major mistake. Bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

whitegdb

my brother bought them thru tirerack.com, I'll be contacting them once my brother gets home.

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

I'm not sure about H&R, but FWIW, I spoke with Eibach about 3G TL/TSX/7G Accord springs and they said the rear springs for these cars are identical. The front springs are the same between the TL and the Accord V6. TSX front springs are also identical to Accord I4's.

Another thing mmade32, I wouldn't be surprised if the front end of the car still looks higher than the rear after swapping the springs. I had to lower my front spring perches (Koni) about 1/4" so the front and rear looks the same. This is with H&R Sport.

mmade22

I hope that is not true about the level. I did two spring swaps that day. My car and I helped Bearcat do his car. His car is exactly like H&R said they would be. If you look at my car picture in my other thread, it is a good 3/4 inch difference from the front to the back. That is a huge difference so I am banking on the right springs correcting the gap. I can't see how it would be any different from Bearcats TL-S. I guess I will find out tomorrow. Everyone knows on this site that I am "camera happy" so I will have the pics up of it. BTW, thanks for the info on the rear springs being compatible.

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

I believe yours is an MT right? MT front end is considerably lighter than AT, esp. Type S. That's the difference.

Not only the rear springs are compatible, they're the same. The front springs for TL and Accord V6 are also the same.

Bearcat94

The weight difference could be part of the difference. But isn't that why you should buy the part number specified for your car?

IOW - if there were an '04 - '06 MT part and an '04 - '06 AT part, even if either one "fits", you buy the one made for your car. (In this case there is no alternate MT part available).

Also the part mmade22 and the other poster had (whitexxx??) were for the Accord COUPE, not the sedan. I don't know the weight distribution/weight differences, but I'd personnly buy the part DESIGNATED for the TL (50104), even if the part for the Accord Coupe "fits".

Finally, a lot of people say "the Accord springs are exactly the same as the TL springs". Maybe those people are on the inside and know that to be fact. But as a consumer, I DO NOT know that to be fact.

I do not have Material Composition, Coil Length, Coil Diameter, Overall Spring Height, Spring Rate/Compression Rate, etc, etc, etc. If I could compare all technical parameters side-by-side, THEN I might say they are "exactly the same".

But just because they (Accord and TL springs) both "fit" does not mean they are "exactly the same".

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

Bearcat, I'm no insider for H&R or any other spring manufacturers. What I wrote up there is related to what Eibach Tech Support told me in person, over the phone, that Prokits rear springs for those 3 cars are identical. The fronts for Accord V6 and TL are the same. The same case with the front springs for TSX and Accord I4.

I do know that Prokit rear springs have the same part numbers for all these cars.

About H&R, I'm not saying that you should just accept the incorrect part numbers. IMO, you should bring it up to H&R.

However, based to what I know, most likely these springs are indeed the same.

My note to mmeade32 is based on the fact that I had H&R 50104 on my car. Due to the lighter front end of MT cars, I had to lower the front spring seats of my Koni shocks. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if mmeade32's front end will still look a little higher after the spring swap.

Bearcat94, I think you also got the wrong part number...... AFAIK you have a Type S and H&R said your car takes 50106, not 50104. The 50104 only applies to regular 04-08 TLs. Although if you do have 50106, I stand corrected.

mmade22

You are both right. I spoke with Mike and he was told by H&R that the 51808 is the same as the 50104. I got a new set of springs today. On the box , it says 50104 Acuta TL. I opened the box and it infact has the Accord part # 51808. If they were the same, H&R should have both part numbers written on the box and the springs. It would have saved Mike a lot of shipping costs.

So I may look like the ass here. To be sure, I am going to pull the springs out of the front and make sure they are installed correctly.

If I did everything right and I still have the higher stance in the front, I am going to be a little dissapointed. One of the main reasons I bought these springs to begin with was the fact that they sat level or a little lower in the front, not the other way around.

I have seen other springs do this and that's why I didn't buy them. Could it be that H&R sport springs are designed for aftermaket struts and not the oem ones? I guess I will find out. I would hate to have to buy a set of struts. I would have bought a complete spring/strut pacakge and saved me the hassel.

I will let everyone know what the outcome is.

Bearcat94

Thanks for looking out. For my ride (TL-S), I did in fact order and recieve 50106, which is the part H&R designates for the TL-S. "Pre-ordered" them before the first shipment had arrived state-side.

I wasn't taking shots at you or your comments specifically (260 HP) and generally agree with your method of deduction.

My point was really a general case: Without hard facts/data it is difficult for the consumer to know what is interchangable with what, so the safest route is buy what is specified for your vehicle.

mmade22

Hey Bearcat, sleep in tomorrow. I just got home from the Monstor Jam (awesome show) about 2 hours ago. I decided to pull one strut out and inspect my install. All is perfect and there is nothing that is wrong. I have all points lined up and the bottom perch area is lined up with no issues. I see it hard to screw it up personally. Oh well, I am not a big fan of the stance I have. Its almost a 1/2 inch higher in the front.

I am not looking to buy adjustable struts to compensate the difference. This sucks. I noticed it had settled a little over the week. I guess I have no choice but to deal with it. Mike, have any good deals on struts for me? On to the next mod!

ndabunka

Hang on a minute. Something doesn't "smell right" here. Seems more likely that H&R has replicated a problem rather than Mmades error. Sounds like Bearcat's springs DID have a different number on them (and DO sit lower as designed). Just because H&R sent the wrong springs out TWICE doesn't mean that they are the correct springs for the application. Check with Mike again. It's likely H&R will have to eat the shipping cost to get this correct. If Bearcat's height was the same as yours, MMade then it would be a different story but that doesn't sound like the case.

ndabunka

Another thought (before bed)... Couldn't you just use the same springs (i.e. part number) that Bearcat used? I know his are for a TL-S but as I understand it the spacing is the same as the TLs. The minor difference in weight should not be nearly an inch different, should it?

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

You got PM.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

yea, the springs are all the same

from what i know, with eibach.. the only difference between the TL 04+ and TL-S 07+ springs, are that the TL-S springs comes with new bump stops....

mmade22

OK guys, I measured the difference on front to back and the front end after two weeks on the car is a little over a 1/2 inch higher in the front. Here are the pictures I took of my car and Bearcats TL-S. You can see the difference. I am going to be contacting H&R to ask some questions I have. I just find it odd, that my car and another persons car was higher in the front. Not even knowing later on that we both ended up with the accord springs......Coincidence??....I don't know. I just have a bad taste in mouth about all of this. I will let you guys be the judge and let me know what you think.

Front......



Back.............



Bearcats Front.........



Bearcats back.......



Pictures of both cars together.............


Another...........

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

Do it! H&R (888) 827-8881.

Let me know how it turns out. You got my e-mail?

mmade22

I will call them to put my mind to rest. I just sent you an e-mail. Thanks Mike

Bearcat94

J, I just noticed on the pics you posted of the springs in the box: Yours are stamped on one coil "H&R O/E".

Mine are stamped "H&R X/P".

I don't know if that means anything or not, but usually a stamp is there for a reason. Maybe it's a build code or manufacturing plant code or something like that. BUT if it's an application code (OE Sport vs Sport vs Race), then it's important to your problem.

Also, look at the Honda Applications at HRSprings.com. 51808 is the '03 - '07 Accord 6 Cyl COUPE; 51860 is the '03 - '07 Accord 6 Cyl SEDAN. Maybe both of those are the same and interchangeable with the 50104 - but only H&R will know that FOR SURE. If they are not all interchangeable, why would the Coupe springs be "right" for our Sedans? I'd think it would be the other way around - the two Sedan springs would be interchangeable.

Finally, the Front Drop listed for both of the Accord parts (51808 & 51806) is 1.5" (Rear is 1.3"). If anything, I'd think your TL would be LOWER than expected, not higher.

Did you save the Ground-to-Fender measurements you made? I've posted mine somewhere, but let me know if you want me to re-measure them. You should double check your tire diameters too - just to confirm that isn't throwing something off since they are a plus size.

If all these springs are *really* the "same", then, in ANY case, your front *should* be slightly lower than your rear.

Bearcat94

For anyone looking at the pics and wondering, I did an informal measurement today:

My Rear gap is just a little more than 1 finger. Not enough for 2 fingers, but a *little* wiggle room for 1 finger. mmade22's rear was the same as mine.

My Front is exactly a 1 finger gap - snug fit & less than the rear. mmade22's fronts were 2 FULL fingers. , but it ain't right.

mmade22

No I never checked the distance before I dropped it. I never thought it would be a problem. I have to say, I am glad to have you on my side with all the great info you have provided me. Honestly, I am at a loss at this time. The bottom line is this, I have a two finger gap in the front and barley a one finger gap in the back. You were over today and noticed it for yourself. Thanks for the info and when I speak with H&R on Monday, I will have something to go by. BTW, thanks for letting me rally your type s today. I loved it!

Bearcat94

I still say you could've taken that on-ramp faster; you had the wheel, but if felt stable from my seat.

I went back through there later but only got up to 80/85 - :ghey:

mmade22

I think hitting 90 mph on the on ramp of your car was fast enough. If it was my car I might have done it at a 100. I also have no balls without the radar detector. I can't afford the ticket at 100. The car could have taken it much faster as it felt as one with the road. The TL-S is sweet. I just need to stay away from the dealer as mine is finally paid for. No need to get into more payments. Now I gotta pay off the wifes Lexus and thats when the shopping will start all over for me. Three year from now sell me your car Bearcat. You have a sweet ride and I can tell you take great care of it.

mmade22

OK, so I spoke with a tech from H&R and they said yes the springs are the same and they are correct for both applications. I asked about the finger gap difference and he said they don't go by that but by the body lines. OK, so I have done all that I can do from here. If anyone else gets these springs in the future, can you please let me know how the stance is afterwards? I am getting use to the look of the drop at this point. Mike, my afternoon job cancelled so I am going to UPS now to send the springs back to you. Bearcat, thanks for all the input. What ever happened to the guy who started this thread? What is going on with your brothers car? Can you post pictures of it so I can see what is going on?

NDABUNKA- I asked them about the type-s springs (50106) and they said it wouldn't fit the standard TL. I left it at that.

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

Thanks John.

Well... give me a heads up when those shocks give out. We'll hook you up with some Koni's so you can fine tune the height with the perch settings.

V-tec

are tokico blue strut good with H&R sport springs?

eh? spec

I ordered a set of H&R sports from Mike a couple days ago. I should have them installed within the next 3-4 weeks, I'll def post pictures of before and after so you can compare.
I'm currently on A-Spec suspension so I'll have the A-Spec shocks with the H&R springs.... and my A-Spec wheels should be on by then. At least its another set-up to compare with. I hope all goes well with mine.

enigmaos

iTrader: (4)

tokico struts/shocks = OEM. those struts/shocks are not adjustible.

mmade22

Great, let me know and post them up asap. The car looks so much better dropped. Mike is going to take good care of you. I noticed the car pulling a little to the right. I am getting new tires next week so I will get on the rack while I am there.