aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

As few of you know, I ordered a set of buddyclub N+ coilovers for a tsx/accord and installed them today on the TL. Had the install done by Marcus, at heeltoe himself, with of course 110% dedication even in 100+ degree weather. I was sweating just watching him install it !

Fitment. Based on the install with the ksports, I assumed the tsx suspension would fit because the ksports fit accords, and the tsx suspension is supposedly identical and interchangeable with the accords.

I didn't swap the top hats with the OEM ones and what we did was remove two of the 5 bolts that came with the buddyclub top hats. I dont have a picture of it, maybe Marcus does, but at the end, you will only be utilizing 3 main bolts, and the oem strut bar will be useless.

The rear fit fine except on the bottom of the suspension, the bushing had a little play, which is easily fixed with two 2mm wide spacers, one on each side.

Ride. The ride is a bit on the softer side, with spring rates of 11k/4k, compared to Tein (12k/6k), or ksports (13k/7k). For those who are concerned about ride comfort, this is as soft, or even more "comfortable" than stock, with the shock settings in the middle, with a tad bit towards the soft side.

It is 15 way adjustable, so I'm going stiffen it up a bit tomorrow and see how that rides, because I like it to ride a bit stiffer. Another plus is that the whole shock body is adjustable, meaning you dont have to mess with the preload and shorten the sping travel vs. the tein's. This is a plus because you can raise it, or slam it without affecting the springs full travel range.

Right now I have it set at a tiny bit less than one finger gap all around and it handles pretty good. Only thing that I need now is to figure out a strut bar that fits. The Tsx sway bar, which we tried, was not long enough, by about close to an inch short.

Also, if you are near the LA/OC area, and want to have more tsx/accord suspension options available to you, I highly recommend having Marcus install it. After having to reinstall/remove/adjust/tweak the same coilovers for about literally 7 times, I think he should be a pro by now !

Here is a picture of the coilovers, but not the ones for the tsx.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Hey Mike. I must say, you are one of the most patient
people I have had here.

Well, you got it all pretty much right. I tried removing just one of the
TSX strut brace studs and it did not cut it. I had to remove both to get
the front hats to fit in the car. Everything else fit perfect.

In the rear, I can't testify to 2mm washers. I had to do a little
massaging to the lower bushing and one of the washers to get it to fit
together. I know for sure I can get it better next time. These were
washers that I just happen to have lying around.

Lastly, you will want about 4.5" of threads between the lower spring
pearch to the lower bracket to get that 1 finger gap, maybe a little more.









NOTE, the BC Sus is a short stroke and full-length adjustable design.
This will lower the car more than 3", yet still maintain full travel and
ride quality. Bottoming out is guaranteed. We were scraping mudguards.





NEED TO USE SOME WASHERS TO GET THE REAR RIGHT.




SLAMMED!!!!! Super low, and it still rode perfect. ****NOTE, we only
made the car this height to take a pic or two. WE DID NOT LOWER THE CAR
THIS HEIGHT.


A more reasonable height Lowered about 2" front, 1.75-1.5" rear.
Pretty similar drop to Tein Basic and SS systems. Adjustment for about
1-1.5" higher is available.


Here is a picture gallery of the whole job:

http://www.heeltoeracing.com//tech/BC_N_UA6/





In summation, this opens up a lot of doors for UA6 owners. Not only can
you run Buddy Club N+ suspension, we can also fit Tein FLEX with EDFC,
Buddy Club Racing Specs, Skunk2 Pro-Series, Tanabe SOC-2, Neuspeed/Koni
Cup Kits, etc....we sell all these kits, and more. Hit us up for a
package deal today.

Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions. We can knock this
job out in about 3 hours. $180 for installation of TSX sus in a UA6.

Marcus

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

One more thing is if you can see the BC top hat comes equipped with a type of O-ring on the top hat to reduce/eliminate any noises. So far I had no noise complains such as clunking or rattling going over bumps or just driving on the freeway!

ussi

iTrader: (1)

goddamn thats low!

Laxplaya11385

a little TOO low...

iLL TL

Now all you need is some 18's and you'll be like a floating spaceship

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

It was pretty sick looking though. I had to snap a few pics.

The last pic has about 1 finger gap...same as I usually set these cars. That height is really nice. It has room to go about 3/4" to 1" higher. So don't be intimidated with this setup if you don't want a slammed car. This will get you a lot of height options because of the threaded bodies.

Marcus

Laxplaya11385

oh don't get me wrong, i think it looks sick. Just....not practical. I'd be afraid of scraping left and right. I actually have the tein SS. Just waiting to install them. If I want about a 1 1/2 - 2 finger gap, do you know how many inches I have to set the Tein SS?

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

I believe there is a baseline that the Teins come preset at, not exactly sure how low it sits but I believe marcus knows.

Update on the suspension. Adjusted the front a bit to a stiffer setting, more to my preference and love it! It can ride just as soft as stock, or even better, while being very low!

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

a 1 finger gap provides pletny of ground clearance, albeit some forethought does need to go into your approach angles on dips and steep driveways.

If you want it higher, all you have to do is spin the collars on the shock up or down. It is all in the instructions supplied with your coilovers.

Marcus

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Jebus, that's low...

Couple of questions. After review of the ksports thread, and now this one:

1) I thought you could use the accord top hats on the TL, and you would only need to drill one hole. By doing so, you could use the Greddy strut tower bar. From the picture below, you can see how (1) of the strut tower mounting posts line up with an existing hole (you'd just have to drill one other to accomodate). Why didn't you just do that?



2) Are all the accord/tsx suspensions going to have that spacing issue in the rear? or are the other coilover a little beefier back there? There was no reference to this in the ksports thread.

3) To adjust the height, I assume you have to remove the lower mount and twist the lower coil body to adjust it...? That soundlike fun during install.

4) With that much drop, were you able to get back into proper alignment specs?

5) What's the minimum drop for these? I'm looking for a nice set of performance coils (that are daily driveable), but not that significant of a drop... Something like 1 to 1.5 inches at most.

Black_05_TL_6SP

I have a question for you. After droping to that hieght, does it require a camber kit on the front and rear? Or does the stock offer enough play to get the alignment back? Since this is something you do, I was just curious. I had to use a camber kit on my Prelude when I droped it. Jason

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

The camber goes out of spec whenver you change the height of the car, whether you are raising or lowering, .5" or 4". But negative camber has little impact on the vehicle dynamics and tire wear. Hondas do not have camber adjustment available, so an alignment will not fix the camber unless you get a camber kit.


I personally do not see the need to get a camber kit beyond the "looks" or "anal" aspect of things.

For correct camber you need camber kits, but you are only fixing it for the sake of having it correct, and nothing more, IMO.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

The one stud that looks like it line up does not really. You need to drill one hole and then open the other one up. Rather than drill a bunch of hols in you car for studs that do nothing, why not do it the clean way and just press the studs out? Also, the TL hats/holes are the same left and right, but the TSX ones are mirror images. The holes will be in different places left to right on the TL. All you need to do is get a strut brace for the TL that utilizes the 3 shock mounting nuts.

Think about it, if the rear bushings for other TSX kits were bigger, how would they fit a TSX? The rear knuckle for the TSX is aluminum, and the TL one is cast steel. Thet are different peices. It makes 100% sense that the widths of the shocks are different from TSX and TL across the board. Just be glad that the TSX is smaller and actually will fit inside the TL knuckle. Perhaps the issue was overlooked on the K-sport thread (on that note, I am going to share an opinion on K-Sport....they suck. Buddy Club is probably the cheapest kit I would go with. If indeed the issue does not exist on the K-Sport kit, it would not necessarily surprise me that the product specs would be wrong, or that the person installing it overlooked it.).

You have the right idea. But not quite. You can adjust the lower mount before you even put the car. To adjust the height when the kit is in the car, all you need to do is loosen the jam nut on the lower bracket and spin the whole shock. It makes more sense when you are actually in the car working. Basically, experience plays a role here. It is not hard to do at all.

Lower how much? Any time you lower the car or raise it the alignment goes out and you need an alignment. We did not lower the car any more than a Tein SS or Basic kit would. So copy/paste comments about those systems here. I am not currently doing alignments though, so we will need to see what Mike's alignment experience is like.

If you are referring to the first pic there with the car sitting on the ground, I doubt you could get the toe right in the rear. But you would have to be insane to drive the car like that anyway.

As far as camber goes, you are not going to get it right w/o a camber kit. But depending on who you are and what you are looking for you may not need to buy one. I never run camber kits personally.

You can make the car as high as 2 finger gap as far as I can see, which is at/close to the A-spec drop as far as I know.

We only lowered the car 2" front and 1.5" rear. Lowering the car this much is totally reasonable and drivable every day without major comprimises in driving. To think you will lower the car to any height and it will not impact the car's ride, handling, tire wear pattern, ground clearance, or necessary driving style is pretty naive. But you would be able to make the car as high as you want.

Marcus

JDM5lugHatch

First off I'll start by saying that when I installed the K-sports into my TL they were an '03+ Accord application. I overlooked nothing and I didn't have a gap like shown on the BuddyClub's. I also am a big fan of buddyclub as I think they make an awesome quality product. Personally I think the N+ are right there with the K-sports. The Racing Spec Dampers are a whole different world though. Those are the only ones that BuddyClub actually race on.

That being said I kinda laughed when you said K-sports suck. Have you even rode in a car equiped with them? They are chinese coilovers I won't deny that. However, they are the same manufacturer as D2 (also chinese yet no complaints on quality and well known) and they use Tokico shock bodies. You sell Tein correct? They suck! I speak from experience. They're springs sag, their coilovers leak, break, clunk, and are just all around garbage. So far my K-sports have held up better SS's I had on my WRX wagon (not the only tein product I have used either).

ding069

lowest TL i have seen thus far. good thing you don't have the a-spec lip or else you will be rubbing everywhere.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

There certainly is differenc\e between "racing spec", and "racing inspired".

So your ksports don't have that gap? Interesting...

As far as top hats/strut towers go...

I know of 2-3 folks on this forum that have actually bought and installed OEM Accord top hats and placed them on top of thier Tein SS systems by drilling ONE hole. This enables them to install the Accord Greddy strut tower AND use EFDC.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ghlight=Greddy

With these two issues in mind, I almost question the design specs of the N+ system.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Well, they are actually Taiwanese. I do not have a lot of direct experience with K-sport, but I do with D2. Where the appearance of product quality exists, it is not necessarily quaranteed. They are 'rebuildable' but cannot be rebuilt as far as I know. Getting extra springs or factory support is a crap shoot.

I doubt the Tokico shock body use. It may be true, but I have not seen any evidence to support this. I have never heard of that before.

Teins do not suck. You must have had a special circumstance where the springs were bad (in 4 years as a Tein dealer, and well over $100,000 in product sold I have yet to experience one spring failure). In the same timeframe, I have had only one shock from one kit leak, and the original shock we rebuilt, under warranty, within 5 business days. Incomparable in this industry.

Coilovers BROKE? Like broke in half. This is a bullshit allogation. I need some evidence. They do clunk when installed improperly. I will give you that. I have seen a number of false allogations of noises due to what I can only imagine is improper installation.

I am not trying to defend Tein here, because their track record already does that. They are easliy the best bang for the buck / highest quality and best supported system available in the USA today. They are produced to exacting standards by an ISO 9001 certified corporation. Your insistance on theyr inferiority only shows me how little you really know about them.

Last comment on the matter: I am a certified Tein dealer and installer. I have been for a long time. I have installed at least 12 systems in UA6, 15 US5/YA5, and over 20 CL9 systems, in addition to kits for all other Hondas and BMWs. I have had nary a problem. I am a dealer trained technician, and I am about 9 untis away from my BS in Manufacturing Engineering. Just thought I would toss in my $20 worth of opinion here. Trumps your

Marcus

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

The N+ for a TSX fits perfectly in the TSX. I am sure the Accord hats do fit the UA6. But you keep referring to Accord stuff when we installed TSX parts in the car. Your Accord evidence is enlightening, but not really pertainant to my comments.

Perhaps the Accord K-sports and whatnot are designed wider and will not fit the TSX, yet fit perfectly in the TL. Anywone ever think of that? My post mentions nothing about Accord parts. Just keep that in mind guys.

Marcus

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

That is good to hear, but I still think Tein offers a better product than BC. Personally, BC is the cheapest I would suggest. My experience with D2 was rather poor, and admittedly most of it did not have to do with the actual product. I am open to the thinking that they are good enough to run. But for sus I don't like to cut corners and get cheap stuff.

When you factor in parts availability, reputation, factory service, and dealer network, Tein blows away pretty much anyone else with a less expensive product.

Marcus

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

From the link, it looks like the accord strut bar is only able to utilize one bolt. I wonder if there is a company that has a setup that uses the main 3 bolts from the coilovers...

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Buy only using one bolt, that bar is pretty weak, from a structural standpoint anyway. It is probably better than nothing, but not nearly ideal...

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

BTW, I say BC is the cheapest I would suggest coming from a person who would not put cheaps stuff on the car. I consider the BC a midrange product. Very nice, and just slightly lower on my list than Tein.

In the end, there are only really a handful of things I would suggest putting on the car. All this based on what the customer is looking for.

Sorry for all the post. I wish I could just edit one post, but I keep thinking of more to add.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

aznobo... You've seen these posts on ksports and the strut tower bar and asked other questions in them... apparently you aren't getting the "drill one hole" modifcation.

AccurateIn used the TL top hats, and thus only 1 bolt lined up. blnkypanman and lookinco bought 03+ Accord top hats, drilled one hole to accomodate the second mounting stud, and we're ready to go with the Greddy strut tower bar... as seen here:




Mr. HeelToe, don't be so damn confrontational. My assumptions we're based on aznbo's statement:

In my mind, form that point forward, accord = tsx... which is coming to light as it may NOT be the case.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

I see, with 2 holes it is actually a good option do do. That just means that you are probably going to need the Accord upper mounts. I did check the part numbers and it appears that the TSX and the Accord do indeed use the same exact hats.

I did think that if I opened up one hole and drill for the other it would fit. Are we sure the Accord hat fits in one hole perfectly and the other one needs to be drilled? My estimation, there was more modding necessary than I felt comfortable doing for too little return. I was not privy to the exsistance of this strut bar at the time either.

I am not trying to be confrontational. That other guy got pissed when I said K-sports suck. Me reaction might have been better to his comments if HE has not been so abrasive. My comments toward you were not inteded to be confrontational at all. I am trying to be as clear as possible here. Don't take offense. Just read the words for face value without inflection.

Marcus

ACCURATEin

After having a stress fracture in my windshield, it was time to figure out a strut bar solution for the UA6.

03 Accord suspension components will work in the TL as the two share the same chassis design.

Hence the Greddy strut bar in my engine bay.

Any tried the 03 Accord Tein pillow ball mounts yet?

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

I would imagine the Accord top mounts would fit the same as TSX ones, since both cars use the same upper mounts. The accord, 2g TL, 2g CL, 3g TL, and TSX all have really similar suspension. I am sure any of this stuff can be made to fit any of these cars.

Marcus

lookinco

Even though the suspenion from different model is compatible, woudln't the different spring rates affect the handling?

For instance, the TEIN SS for the 2nd GEN TL has a MUCH LOWER spring rate as compared with the 3rd GEN.

2nd GEN TL: Front: 7kg/mm Rear: 4kg/mm
3rd GEN TL: Front: 12kg/mm Rear: 6kg/mm
03+ Accord: Front: 9kg/mm Rear: 6kg/mm

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

Do you have any solutions in mind using the 3 bolting points I have now?

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

I would have thought that the rates were too soft, but its actually pretty good in handling, even without the strut bar at the moment. The rates for the buddy club are at 11kg/4kg rear, and adjusting the shocks will help out the handling too, at the same time you have the option to leave the settings at soft for a very comfortable ride quality.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

There's nothing out there yet... Better find a welder.

JDM5lugHatch

K-Sport has an office in the US. D2 is a different company from what I understand yet both coilovers come from the same plant yet made to their specs. K-sports are rebuildable in the US. Also, in Europe K-Sports are known and are in high deman in the Nissan Drift clubs.

I have seen pics with the Tokico name on the shock inserts. It is possible that they are not used on all applications but they are definitely used.


Tein is junk. I have installed several sets as well. They clunk and that's just how they are. Either it's the top hats that clunk and need a sheet of rubber between them to prevent it or it's the springs clunking and need to be wrapped in coiled/spiral wire loom to keep them from slamming back down onto the perch.

Also, I'm sure a lot more of the units you have sold have gone bad yet they have just gone to tein themselves to get them rebuilt. I know I would go directly to them versus going to the person I bought them from.

As far as breaking I have the the actual perches crack and crumble. Believe it or not. They're s-tech springs are garbage and sag. H-tech's I have no experience with. I installed my first set of Teins back in '97 when nobody had even heard of them for the most part. So I am pretty familiar with the product.


I assume you don't run teins on your car then. Because there are several companies out there that blow Tein away. Just to name a few KW, Bilstein, HKS, Cusco, Zeal, Ohlins, AST, etc..

K-sport is a cheap alternative coilover. No doubt about that. Are they the best... no. They can't compare with companies like I listed above. Yet they offer so much more than Tein at around the same price. Hell, I even think the Racing Spec Dampers by BuddyClub are better than the Tein Flex. But hey that's my opinion.

However, this isn't really a debate which is a better product. It's about you talking trash about a product you have no experience with. I could understand if you had used them and had your experiences to back up your statement. Yet you have no experience with them at all. At least I have experience with Tein and a lot of it I might add. We could argue our opinions until we are blue in the face yet why?

llJrockll

iTrader: (2)

DAMN! and I thought I was low.....looks good

Check out mine (dropped with Tanabe's)

link:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32494

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

D2 is a pretty big name all over the world as well. At least that is impression I get reading the internet. D2 are supposedly rebuildable too, as are most other coilovers. My point is, most companies do not have the parts or resources in place to actually rebuild them. I know Tein does. I am 90% Buddy Club does too. D2 does not. If K-sport does, than that is great. Have you had personal experience getting shocks rebuilt throguh K-sport in the USA, or do they simply swap out cores for you?

Touche. Again, I have not seen it.

I gotta say, I have not expereinced anything that I could not fix. I have not determined Tein, or any other coilover for that matter, to live up to the noise complaints people make.

I suppose this is possible. But then again, I feel like you should be able to go through the company where you bought them from. Why wouldn't you? If the dealer is providing you ggod service, they should be happy to help you and make it easy. If they are not, why buy from them in the first place?

You are aware of all the fake Tein springs out there, aren't you? And would not Tein replace sagging springs under warranty? And perches disitirbrating sounds very suspicious. Again, I need to see it to believe it. I find it hard for that to be possible or likely, regardless of coilover maker. Again, I have yet to personally experience any of this with any of my customers, or even read supporting info on the web. If they were that bad, I am sure we would have all heard something, and they would not be the most popular brand on Acurazine.

I actually do run Tein on my cars. I ran Flex on my WRX, I had some SS on an EG civic, and I currently have some SS-P on an EJ1 Civic. Also, they are currently prototyping a private label system for us. I know there are a lot of other choices, but my case for choosing Tein is based not only on quality and performance, but price too. All the brands you mention are great coilovers as well...for anywhere from 10% to 100% greater price.

I agree that K-sport/D2 have a lot of great features for the cost. They have a low price and perform well. But they only have a name because they are not the worst thing out there and low prices. I would not consider them the most consistant or reliable brand. For me, they suck in terms of quality and factory support. I have wasted enough green on cheap parts to settle for low cost stuff any more. You are entiltled to your opinion just as I am mine. In my mind, I have reached a reasonable ground to stand on and it is going to be pretty hard to convince me of otherwise.

I think it is ALL about the product. Just because I never personally owned a set does not mean anything. I have inspected and installed similar parts. All I need to know is who they are made by (the factory, not the country) and look at the price. Just because the specs might be different than D2 does not mean the quality is majically better. Cheap, Fast, or Good....you can only pick two.

Anyway, I guess we will just agree to diasagree here. When I said k-sports suck, I did not mean it like insulting your mom or anything. I don't even know you. So sorry if it offended you.

Marcus

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

Anyone know a welder?

JDM5lugHatch

We are both adults and I wasn't taking it as an insult. I did get defensive because you were talking down about a product you have no experience whats-so-ever with. If I didn't like the product I would be the first to admit it. So far I have had no problems at all and they are just as good as new. If and when I experience problems with a product I will make it known.

As far as having K-sport service anything for me not yet. All I know is that the companies that sell them and their support claim that they can rebuild them in house. I would assume this means just swapping out cartridges but I really don't know.

If I needed to have coilovers serviced I would go direct to the manufacturer as to avoid the middle man costs and any delay. I am pretty impatient so I don't want to have to send a product to the person I bought them from then have them ship or take them to the manufacturer and then have them returned to me. I can cut out 1 person by just going straight to the source as they say. That's just me though.

I too am aware of fake tein Products. My experiences are dating back as far as '99 though. Plus I only purchased from authorized dealers as I do pretty much everything I buy. That helps prevent ending up with knock-offs.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

That is what I mean. Swapping out shock tubes is not the same a rebuilding. Tein actually has engineers on staff full time, and their only job is to take apart and rebuild shocks. I have had 2-3 sets of Teins rebuilt and revalved for different spring rates. "Send me yours and we send you a new one" does not mean they rebuild them. In my estimation it actually means their dampers are not only inexpensive, they are so cheap they would rather just send a new one rather than fix the old one. This is where I start to feel the product is inferior. Maybe I do need to actually use them, but I am highly doubtful I will be any more impressed by them than I was with D2. Nothing you have said makes me think otherwise.

On rebuilding, I can take care of all customer's Tein needs because I am local to them. I have an advantage there because I don't need to ship to Tein. I see how with other dealers there might be more delay involved. Fortunately, Tein does offer rebuilding direct with the public, allowing you to go straight to the source. I personally tell my customers to call me if there is ever a problem. There have been a couple isolated things, but all were either insubstantiated complaints or taken care of within a week or two.

Anyway, we both got a little defensive. Mind if I ask how old your k-sports are?

Marcus

JDM5lugHatch

Approx. 6 months and I inspect them regularly along with my tires. If it makes any difference my dream coilovers are Cusco Zero 2R's they just never seem to fit in the budget. However, Tein and K-sports were around the same price and due to my experiences with Tein and tein's lack of shock body adjustability I went with the K-sports.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, Z-2R are really REALLY nice....but man they are pricey.

Well, they are not really the same price....the K-sports are a lot less. The K-sport price lines up with Tein SS. The Flex is the comparable set to the K-sport. So the difference is not the features, it is the price. FOr those looking for adjustable lower mounts the Flex is an option.

Marcus

K-Shawn

Whatup Laxplaya.....I think I told you about my front end guy Muzzio's in Ridgewood NJ. He set my Tein SS on my TL.....In North Jerzey Muzzio is considered the god front alignment specs for aftermarket suspension & frontend work.