Brembo rotor turning
02-03-2011, 10:00 AM
#1
Brembo rotor turning
Anyone know the limitations for turning the rotors on our Brembos? Took mine into Firestone and they are telling me they cannot (too thin already) and that they can replace them for hundreds of dollars.
I do not think my rotors have been turned before.
TIA
Mo
I do not think my rotors have been turned before.
TIA
Mo
02-03-2011, 10:10 AM
#3
Found this, if anyone can verify
Interesting notes below on bad experiences with Hawk HPS. I have them on another car with Brembo brakes and love them - great bite in cold, low dust, quiet. Wondering if improper bed-in procedure is at fault?
I plan to turn my rotors (at 27k miles) and will let you know what I decide...
BTW - I looked here and couldn't find it. The MIN FRONT ROTOR THICKNESS is 23mm (24.9 - 25.1 mm new) according to Acura Dealer
What has been the experience for most of you with your front rotors - on the first pad change, do you typically have enough thickness to turn vs replace?
Cheers
I plan to turn my rotors (at 27k miles) and will let you know what I decide...
BTW - I looked here and couldn't find it. The MIN FRONT ROTOR THICKNESS is 23mm (24.9 - 25.1 mm new) according to Acura Dealer
What has been the experience for most of you with your front rotors - on the first pad change, do you typically have enough thickness to turn vs replace?
Cheers
02-03-2011, 10:12 AM
#4
Race Director
If they're not yet to 23mm, then you don't necessarily need to turn them to get rid of the noise. I assume these are new pads? If they are, did you do the proper bed-in procedures recommended by the pad manufacturer?
If not, do the bed-in procedure and see if that takes care of the noise.
You can also pull the rotors and lightly sand them (follow by a water wash) to get rid of any pad material deposited on the rotor and then do the bed-in procedure again.
The noise is most likely caused by a mixture of different (old pad/new pad) material on the rotor and/or incomplete/improper bed-in procedures.
Last edited by nfnsquared; 02-03-2011 at 10:16 AM.
02-03-2011, 10:35 AM
#5
It's 23mm, which is also the spec for replacement. If they are indeed below 23mm, then you should consider replacing them.
If they're not yet to 23mm, then you don't necessarily need to turn them to get rid of the noise. I assume these are new pads? If they are, did you do the proper bed-in procedures recommended by the pad manufacturer?
If not, do the bed-in procedure and see if that takes care of the noise.
You can also pull the rotors and lightly sand them (follow by a water wash) to get rid of any pad material deposited on the rotor and then do the bed-in procedure again.
The noise is most likely caused by a mixture of different (old pad/new pad) material on the rotor and/or incomplete/improper bed-in procedures.
If they're not yet to 23mm, then you don't necessarily need to turn them to get rid of the noise. I assume these are new pads? If they are, did you do the proper bed-in procedures recommended by the pad manufacturer?
If not, do the bed-in procedure and see if that takes care of the noise.
You can also pull the rotors and lightly sand them (follow by a water wash) to get rid of any pad material deposited on the rotor and then do the bed-in procedure again.
The noise is most likely caused by a mixture of different (old pad/new pad) material on the rotor and/or incomplete/improper bed-in procedures.
Firestone is telling me that they are at 1.040' (26.416mm) and that after the turn they will be at 1.020' (25.907mm). They say that some american insurance crap prevents them from doing this regardless of what Acura says. That 1.030 would be needed after the turn. They charge $70 for the turn.
Acura said they would do it, given those numbers, but that it would cost $130. And they were fairly 'iffy' about doing it. EVERYONE WANTS TO SELL YOU ROTORS.
02-03-2011, 11:54 AM
#6
Race Director
If I were you (and if you feel up to doing something like this), rather than lose thickness and be out some $$, I'd pull the rotors and sand them (wash, dry, sand, wash, dry). Then bed-in. (If the pads came with bed-in instructions, I would follow those instead). I'm guessing your noise issue is being caused by different pad compounds being deposited on the rotor.
Last edited by nfnsquared; 02-03-2011 at 11:59 AM.
02-03-2011, 12:08 PM
#7
Just a note: If those are Hawk pads, there has been some history of certain Hawk pads being noisy...
If I were you (and if you feel up to doing something like this), rather than lose thickness and be out some $$, I'd pull the rotors and sand them (wash, dry, sand, wash, dry). Then bed-in. (If the pads came with bed-in instructions, I would follow those instead). I'm guessing your noise issue is being caused by different pad compounds being deposited on the rotor.
I don't see how that's possible. Brembo rotors aren't even that thick when they are factory new (max of 25.1mm when new).
If I were you (and if you feel up to doing something like this), rather than lose thickness and be out some $$, I'd pull the rotors and sand them (wash, dry, sand, wash, dry). Then bed-in. (If the pads came with bed-in instructions, I would follow those instead). I'm guessing your noise issue is being caused by different pad compounds being deposited on the rotor.
I don't see how that's possible. Brembo rotors aren't even that thick when they are factory new (max of 25.1mm when new).
I am not running the Hawks - have read some stories on here about those causing grooves in the rotors. I got the cmax golds. I may have over looked, but did not see bedding instructions. Thus I used the heeltoe.
I called firestone back and she insists her numbers are correct. But, now hearing your suggestion again, instead of turning I am going to sand, etc anyway.
Serious thanks for all the info!!
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02-03-2011, 12:22 PM
#8
Race Director
Did you buy that car new?
If not (and assuming Firestone's measurements of your rotors are correct), the previous owner may have put the wrong rotors on. This just happened to someone else on this forum with his TL-S. If those are not the right rotors, then that could also be the source of the noise....
On the other hand, I'm guessing that Firestone is totally scamming you, trying to sell you a pair of rotors. You might consider adding a micrometer to your tool collection ($10-$20) and measure them yourself.
If you have time and really want to expose Firestone, call them up and tell them you want to watch while they put a micrometer on the rotors. I'd love to hear their response...
For sanding, I think I used 100 grit sand paper. I did this when I changed pads (OEM Brembo to Racing Brake ET300s) to ensure no noise from the mixing of different pad compounds. Worked like a charm
I assume you've read up on hints to get the rotor attachment screws out? If not, read some of the brake DIY in the Garage...
If not (and assuming Firestone's measurements of your rotors are correct), the previous owner may have put the wrong rotors on. This just happened to someone else on this forum with his TL-S. If those are not the right rotors, then that could also be the source of the noise....
On the other hand, I'm guessing that Firestone is totally scamming you, trying to sell you a pair of rotors. You might consider adding a micrometer to your tool collection ($10-$20) and measure them yourself.
If you have time and really want to expose Firestone, call them up and tell them you want to watch while they put a micrometer on the rotors. I'd love to hear their response...
For sanding, I think I used 100 grit sand paper. I did this when I changed pads (OEM Brembo to Racing Brake ET300s) to ensure no noise from the mixing of different pad compounds. Worked like a charm
I assume you've read up on hints to get the rotor attachment screws out? If not, read some of the brake DIY in the Garage...
Last edited by nfnsquared; 02-03-2011 at 12:25 PM.
02-03-2011, 08:11 PM
#9
Team Owner
A couple things....
I don't agree with getting the rotors machined to get rid of the noise. This is something that should go away over time and with a couple bed in procedures. If it does not, something else is wrong.
Refacing is what you're doing, not a traditional turning of the rotor. This is just barely touching the face of the rotor and the amount of material is minimal. I can understand a shop not wanting to turn an already at the limit rotor such as when it's warped but this is taking a barely measurable amount of material off.
Cmax pads are known for being extremely quiet. I ran them in the rear for a while. Mine got plenty hot in the rear to lay down a transfer layer even without a bed-in.
This is why I'm leaning toward wrong parts/incorrectly installed parts including shims.
It's possible the pads got glazed when you followed the heeltoe procedure. If the procedure was for a high performance set of pads, the normal cmax pads might have glazed. A lower performance pad like those (they are great pads, just not high performance) don't require much in the way of bed-in. I would pull the pads off and break the glaze with some sandpaper. An alternative to sand paper is to lay them pad down on relatively smooth concrete and "sand" them in a circular motion until they have a fresh face.
I don't agree with getting the rotors machined to get rid of the noise. This is something that should go away over time and with a couple bed in procedures. If it does not, something else is wrong.
Refacing is what you're doing, not a traditional turning of the rotor. This is just barely touching the face of the rotor and the amount of material is minimal. I can understand a shop not wanting to turn an already at the limit rotor such as when it's warped but this is taking a barely measurable amount of material off.
Cmax pads are known for being extremely quiet. I ran them in the rear for a while. Mine got plenty hot in the rear to lay down a transfer layer even without a bed-in.
This is why I'm leaning toward wrong parts/incorrectly installed parts including shims.
It's possible the pads got glazed when you followed the heeltoe procedure. If the procedure was for a high performance set of pads, the normal cmax pads might have glazed. A lower performance pad like those (they are great pads, just not high performance) don't require much in the way of bed-in. I would pull the pads off and break the glaze with some sandpaper. An alternative to sand paper is to lay them pad down on relatively smooth concrete and "sand" them in a circular motion until they have a fresh face.
Last edited by I hate cars; 02-03-2011 at 08:13 PM.
02-17-2011, 02:57 PM
#10
A couple things....
I don't agree with getting the rotors machined to get rid of the noise. This is something that should go away over time and with a couple bed in procedures. If it does not, something else is wrong.
Refacing is what you're doing, not a traditional turning of the rotor. This is just barely touching the face of the rotor and the amount of material is minimal. I can understand a shop not wanting to turn an already at the limit rotor such as when it's warped but this is taking a barely measurable amount of material off.
Cmax pads are known for being extremely quiet. I ran them in the rear for a while. Mine got plenty hot in the rear to lay down a transfer layer even without a bed-in.
This is why I'm leaning toward wrong parts/incorrectly installed parts including shims.
It's possible the pads got glazed when you followed the heeltoe procedure. If the procedure was for a high performance set of pads, the normal cmax pads might have glazed. A lower performance pad like those (they are great pads, just not high performance) don't require much in the way of bed-in. I would pull the pads off and break the glaze with some sandpaper. An alternative to sand paper is to lay them pad down on relatively smooth concrete and "sand" them in a circular motion until they have a fresh face.
I don't agree with getting the rotors machined to get rid of the noise. This is something that should go away over time and with a couple bed in procedures. If it does not, something else is wrong.
Refacing is what you're doing, not a traditional turning of the rotor. This is just barely touching the face of the rotor and the amount of material is minimal. I can understand a shop not wanting to turn an already at the limit rotor such as when it's warped but this is taking a barely measurable amount of material off.
Cmax pads are known for being extremely quiet. I ran them in the rear for a while. Mine got plenty hot in the rear to lay down a transfer layer even without a bed-in.
This is why I'm leaning toward wrong parts/incorrectly installed parts including shims.
It's possible the pads got glazed when you followed the heeltoe procedure. If the procedure was for a high performance set of pads, the normal cmax pads might have glazed. A lower performance pad like those (they are great pads, just not high performance) don't require much in the way of bed-in. I would pull the pads off and break the glaze with some sandpaper. An alternative to sand paper is to lay them pad down on relatively smooth concrete and "sand" them in a circular motion until they have a fresh face.
Thanks IHC!
02-17-2011, 03:02 PM
#11
02-17-2011, 03:09 PM
#13
Yeah, I could not find a DIY for Brembo, just the non-brembo (I know how to do those). I know when I was trying to figure out the Brembo pad change, I broke apart the caliper and fluid started leaking. If anyone knows of a DIY on the Brembo rotors, please throw it up here. Rotors should be in next Wed and I will attack them immediately!
02-17-2011, 03:11 PM
#14
Team Owner
I used a 7/16 drill bit. It takes literally 2 seconds to take the head off. Using a smaller bit would take longer. Since these do not get reinstalled, knocking the head off the screw is all you need to do.
02-17-2011, 03:12 PM
#15
Thanks! Yeah, I could not find a DIY for Brembo, just the non-brembo (I know how to do those).
I know when I was trying to figure out the Brembo pad change, I broke apart the caliper and fluid started leaking. If anyone knows of a DIY on the Brembo rotors, please throw it up here. Rotors should be in next Wed and I will attack them immediately!
Yeah, I could not find a DIY for Brembo, just the non-brembo (I know how to do those). I know when I was trying to figure out the Brembo pad change, I broke apart the caliper and fluid started leaking. If anyone knows of a DIY on the Brembo rotors, please throw it up here. Rotors should be in next Wed and I will attack them immediately!
push the pins through to get to the pads.
4 bolts to take off the caliper and bracket.
then take off rotor retaining screws.
then take off rotor.
02-17-2011, 03:18 PM
#16
From what I gather you are saying, the whole caliper comes off as one piece, attached to a bracket. I think I can handle that.
Maybe.
Thanks IHC - I will forward this over to my mechanic buddy who will be helping me. I am sure he will understand. I have built (carbureted) engines from the block up, but never changed a rotor in my life.
02-17-2011, 03:24 PM
#17
Thanks, justnspace - Yeah, I thought it would work like a normal caliper and I would break the caliper apart to get to the pads. Before I figured out it was cartridge. Fluid started leaking out.
From what I gather you are saying, the whole caliper comes off as one piece, attached to a bracket. I think I can handle that.
Maybe.
Thanks IHC - I will forward this over to my mechanic buddy who will be helping me. I am sure he will understand. I have built (carbureted) engines from the block up, but never changed a rotor in my life.
From what I gather you are saying, the whole caliper comes off as one piece, attached to a bracket. I think I can handle that.
Maybe.
Thanks IHC - I will forward this over to my mechanic buddy who will be helping me. I am sure he will understand. I have built (carbureted) engines from the block up, but never changed a rotor in my life.
02-17-2011, 03:34 PM
#18
Race Director
02-17-2011, 06:36 PM
#19
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/d-094-diy-complete-brake-job-pics-624404/
They'll be in next Wednesday, so I will post back shortly after.
02-17-2011, 10:08 PM
#20
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D-094: DIY:Brembo Brake Pad Replacement + Rear Brake Pad Replacementhttps://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/3g-garage-d-094-brembo-hawk-pad-replacement-w-pics-579140/
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/diy-2007-tl-s-brake-pad-replacement-629428/
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/d-094-diy-how-replace-brake-pads-acura-tl-s-733637/
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=624404 - Rear Pads as well
If you opened the caliper and fluid came out, you're probably going to need to bleed your brake lines. If it got on the caliper paint, it's gonna blister/peel.
Should be a thread in here somewhere on the bleed sequence: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/3g-tl-garage-faq-3g-tl-newbies-553554/
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/diy-2007-tl-s-brake-pad-replacement-629428/
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/d-094-diy-how-replace-brake-pads-acura-tl-s-733637/
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=624404 - Rear Pads as well
If you opened the caliper and fluid came out, you're probably going to need to bleed your brake lines. If it got on the caliper paint, it's gonna blister/peel.
Should be a thread in here somewhere on the bleed sequence: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/3g-tl-garage-faq-3g-tl-newbies-553554/
Last edited by Bearcat94; 02-17-2011 at 10:14 PM.
02-17-2011, 10:12 PM
#21
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.....
Firestone is telling me that they are at 1.040' (26.416mm) and that after the turn they will be at 1.020' (25.907mm). They say that some american insurance crap prevents them from doing this regardless of what Acura says. That 1.030 would be needed after the turn. They charge $70 for the turn.
.....
Firestone is telling me that they are at 1.040' (26.416mm) and that after the turn they will be at 1.020' (25.907mm). They say that some american insurance crap prevents them from doing this regardless of what Acura says. That 1.030 would be needed after the turn. They charge $70 for the turn.
.....
If you've got stock Acura Brembo rotors new - brand NEW out of the box - they are 25 mm / 0.98 inches.
IOW - your brakes, according to Firestone are BETTER than new. AND, they'll still be BETTER than new AFTER Firestone turns them.
02-17-2011, 11:01 PM
#22
Team Owner
I wonder if they're measuring over pad deposits.
02-18-2011, 10:01 AM
#23
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In which case, they could shave 0.010 with no issues.
But what I think might be happening is the dumbasses are looking at the regular, non-Brembo spec - the '04 - '06 AT spec - which has a 26mm service limit. That is right where the OP is according to their measurements.
And if the OP's car is NOT an MT, they think it applies to the TL-S AT, even though it doesn't.
I've seen it before - almost got into an argument with the NAPA parts desk guy about whether the rotor I wanted would fit my TL-S. He SWORE it would only fit an MT car and not my AT. I tried to explain, but he just wouldn't listen.
OP ought to take his rotors back over there and give 'em a smack upside the head.
But what I think might be happening is the dumbasses are looking at the regular, non-Brembo spec - the '04 - '06 AT spec - which has a 26mm service limit. That is right where the OP is according to their measurements.
And if the OP's car is NOT an MT, they think it applies to the TL-S AT, even though it doesn't.
I've seen it before - almost got into an argument with the NAPA parts desk guy about whether the rotor I wanted would fit my TL-S. He SWORE it would only fit an MT car and not my AT. I tried to explain, but he just wouldn't listen.
OP ought to take his rotors back over there and give 'em a smack upside the head.
Last edited by Bearcat94; 02-18-2011 at 10:25 AM.
02-22-2011, 02:42 PM
#24
In which case, they could shave 0.010 with no issues.
But what I think might be happening is the dumbasses are looking at the regular, non-Brembo spec - the '04 - '06 AT spec - which has a 26mm service limit. That is right where the OP is according to their measurements.
And if the OP's car is NOT an MT, they think it applies to the TL-S AT, even though it doesn't.
I've seen it before - almost got into an argument with the NAPA parts desk guy about whether the rotor I wanted would fit my TL-S. He SWORE it would only fit an MT car and not my AT. I tried to explain, but he just wouldn't listen.
OP ought to take his rotors back over there and give 'em a smack upside the head.
But what I think might be happening is the dumbasses are looking at the regular, non-Brembo spec - the '04 - '06 AT spec - which has a 26mm service limit. That is right where the OP is according to their measurements.
And if the OP's car is NOT an MT, they think it applies to the TL-S AT, even though it doesn't.
I've seen it before - almost got into an argument with the NAPA parts desk guy about whether the rotor I wanted would fit my TL-S. He SWORE it would only fit an MT car and not my AT. I tried to explain, but he just wouldn't listen.
OP ought to take his rotors back over there and give 'em a smack upside the head.
None-the-less - $200 for a pair of new Brembo rotors (cross drilled (hopefully I am not hard enough on them to cause cracks)) is a good deal. $100 to resurface or $200 for brand new - I took the new route.
Will get them installed Sunday and hope that when I get that baby from 88mph to 0mph I see some serious shit.
02-23-2011, 01:03 AM
#25
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Our Firestone does that same crap. When it was a BP Procare, they never upsold us.
Couple years ago my '02 needed tires. I searched them on Tire Rack and went to Firestone to see if they could price match. Bridgestone 960 AS.
First the guy says they're no longer available. I tell him Tire Rack has 'em. Then he finds them and tells me my car doesn't need UHP AS, it needs a tamer tire. He suggests some Bridgestone touring tire. At $30 more per tire.
They lost that order and several other service opportunities.
02-27-2011, 06:44 PM
#26
Well, I got the rotors on (new avatar) and think I have figured out some the mystery.
I have only put about 30 miles on the rotors, so not much review - except braking feedback on the pedal seems to stay the same instead of becoming bloated.
When I pulled the pads (CMAX) there was a fairly large lip at the top of them. All four pads had about 2mm worth of ridge where the rotors did not turn all the way up on the pad itself.
The new rotors have a brembo logo cast into them. Do the factory ones? Cause my old ones did not. I am starting to wonder if previous owner did not put aftermarket or even stock TL on there? Thus causing the odd wear/squeal in the pads and questionable measurements by Firestone.
The new rotors were for sure bigger and the pads lined up with them at the top of the caliper perfectly.
I have only put about 30 miles on the rotors, so not much review - except braking feedback on the pedal seems to stay the same instead of becoming bloated.
When I pulled the pads (CMAX) there was a fairly large lip at the top of them. All four pads had about 2mm worth of ridge where the rotors did not turn all the way up on the pad itself.
The new rotors have a brembo logo cast into them. Do the factory ones? Cause my old ones did not. I am starting to wonder if previous owner did not put aftermarket or even stock TL on there? Thus causing the odd wear/squeal in the pads and questionable measurements by Firestone.
The new rotors were for sure bigger and the pads lined up with them at the top of the caliper perfectly.
02-27-2011, 07:39 PM
#28
Race Director
Well, I got the rotors on (new avatar) and think I have figured out some the mystery.
I have only put about 30 miles on the rotors, so not much review - except braking feedback on the pedal seems to stay the same instead of becoming bloated....
When I pulled the pads (CMAX) there was a fairly large lip at the top of them. All four pads had about 2mm worth of ridge where the rotors did not turn all the way up on the pad itself.
The new rotors were for sure bigger and the pads lined up with them at the top of the caliper perfectly.
I have only put about 30 miles on the rotors, so not much review - except braking feedback on the pedal seems to stay the same instead of becoming bloated....
When I pulled the pads (CMAX) there was a fairly large lip at the top of them. All four pads had about 2mm worth of ridge where the rotors did not turn all the way up on the pad itself.
The new rotors were for sure bigger and the pads lined up with them at the top of the caliper perfectly.
Did you buy that car new?
If not (and assuming Firestone's measurements of your rotors are correct), the previous owner may have put the wrong rotors on. This just happened to someone else on this forum with his TL-S. If those are not the right rotors, then that could also be the source of the noise....
If not (and assuming Firestone's measurements of your rotors are correct), the previous owner may have put the wrong rotors on. This just happened to someone else on this forum with his TL-S. If those are not the right rotors, then that could also be the source of the noise....
02-27-2011, 07:43 PM
#29
Team Owner
02-27-2011, 08:01 PM
#30
He did nail it though! 
Brembo stamp is inside the rotor, in the indention by the lugs. It's just the circular B logo.
Good looking out!
Thanks to everyone for the responses/help/suggestions. It feels so good to not have to worry about that mf'n squeal anymore.
Good looking out!
Thanks to everyone for the responses/help/suggestions. It feels so good to not have to worry about that mf'n squeal anymore.
02-27-2011, 09:08 PM
#31
Race Director
Never noticed the "B", I'll take a look when I replace the rotors in a couple of months.
The good news: Firestone was not lying about the measurements.
The very bad news: They had no clue the wrong rotors were on the car.
Think I'd stay away from that place now...except maybe to tell the manager how clueless at least one of their employees is
The good news: Firestone was not lying about the measurements.
The very bad news: They had no clue the wrong rotors were on the car.
Think I'd stay away from that place now...except maybe to tell the manager how clueless at least one of their employees is
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