ttliang

I've been thinking about winter tires. since i only use stock 17" for winter, why suffer those EL-42 any longer? they suck in snow anyway (ok ok they suck everywhere).

looking at bridgeston Blizzak LM-22. i noticed it's only H rated. LM-25 is V rated but a bit more $$$. any experiences with these? 99% i'll not be driving my car over 130mph even on dry day. any noticeable differences like mushiness, handling, etc. also any other suggestions? how much would i suffer on gas mileage? Thanks.

3PUTT

based from Gary@tirerack.com, he mentioned that they are about the same. like you said the main difference is the speed rating and the tread pattern. if you know you will be going that fast, then i think you have answered your question.

Adobeman

Don't rule out the WS-50. It will not handle as good as the LM22/25 but if you live in an area prone to more icy storms than just snow it will grip much better. In my area we get a lot of storms that turn to freezing rain and the WS-50 will grip much better than the LM22/25. I noticed I big difference at first as the car isn't nearly as tight. A few weeks later, the streets are sandy, and I couldn't care less.

For the few months I need them on the car I will go for the best grip. Tire rack did recommend the LM22 originally but didn't have any problems with the WS-50 once I told them I was prone to more icy conditions. They then agreed the WS-50 was superior in icy conditions.

We have had WS-50s on my wife's van for about 4 winters. Dramatic difference is an understatement. She used to fear the snow. Now she complains about everyone else in the snow as in "what's their problem, it's not that slippery".

ttliang

as far as i remembered, we don't have that much icy situations here in NJ. heck, we'll probably only have less than 10 serious snow/winter. therefore i still care about cold-dry performance a little tiny bit. you think LM-22 would fair better on dry? people told me they winter tires only will last about 10K. is that true for normal driving? what's ur real life report? Thanks.

TheNip73

I'm looking for some winter rubber due to my recent mishap. I pray they last a hell of a lot longer than 10k. I'll some through a set of winter tread in one season with that kind of a lifetime!

ttliang

well i am getting reports from all over the place and need to confirm. tire guy told me as long as i don't drive them in warm weather then they will last. my friend at work gave me this 10K+ info since he's currently using some blizzak (not lm-22/25 tho) on his camaro. he could be, for all i know, driving very hard. any help? thanks.

Adobeman

I guess it depends on how you drive. My wife's WS-50s still have plenty of the Blizzak layer and this is the start of the 5th season on them. (there are two sets of indicators, one for the Blizzak layer and one for the overall tire) She does about 10Kmi a year total so I guess 3 to 4K in the winter. I guess that is 12-16K total on the WS-50s. I think the WS-50 has a higher tread wear rating than the 22/25's.

I don't think I will get as many miles on mine on the TL since the I probably accel and corner harder than she does. I have a friend who has 4 WS-50s on a Mustang and I expect he will chew them up much faster than me. Time will tell.

The LM22 is probably a good compromise for you. The WS-50 may be overkill since you say you get little ice. It is supposed to handle better than the 50 but I guess it will probably wear quicker.

Pro Stock John

Adobe, so the LM25 is the one you would reccomend?

Adobeman

Hard to say "recommend" since I never actually owned LM25s. I have had really good experience with the WS-50 on another car so that's what I have put on my TL. If you are convinced that you don't need the wicked grip of the WS-50 then the there are probably lots of other "high performance" snows that can compete with the LM25. Since ttliang's original question was about the 22/25's I did "nod" to them once the issue of icy conditions had been addressed.

The thing is, I see the term "high performance snow tire" as a bit of an oxymoron. I expect snow tires to grip well in the snow at the expense of dry weather performance. Some will argue that you need the performance for "emergency" situations but I don't think the WS-50s are by any means "dangerous" since they give up some dry performance.

The other argument is cost of ownership of the Blizzaks since they only have "Blizzak" layer for about 1/2 the tire. To my understanding, the WS-50 is a still a "snow tire" compound after the "Blizzak" layer is worn off but the 22/25 doesn't use as "grippy" a "Blizzak" layer and revert to an "all season" compound when worn through. Not sure if that is still true. Either way, if they do wear faster, it is only a few hundred dollars over the life of the car. I can live with that risk.

Pro Stock John

I'd be interested in the grippiest tire.

TheNip73

I am correct in assuming the LM-22 is inbetween the WS-50 and the LM-25? I think the LM-25 (V rated) is overkill, but I think the WS-50 is going to be too far to the opposite extreme. I am looking for a snow tire that has good snow AND ice performance but won't be too sheepish in handling either. I am more than willing to have it be somewhat sheepish. Something that is 1 step below the WS-50 is what I'm looking for. Suggestions?

TheNip73

Blizzak WS-50 for you my man.

Treblig

I just bought a winter wheel/tire package from the TireRack. Their recommendation to me me was 16" Blizzak Revo's. So far, so good.

Pro Stock John

Nice, I would want overkill city.

kilroy

I have the ws-50 on my TL and would much rather drive it than my Wifes MDX with stock tires in crappy weather. They are the best snow tires I have ever had.

If I keep it under 95 Mph for three months a year - so can you.

TheNip73

I opted for the LM-22 today. I will follow-up with a report once I have some miles on them. I get them put on late in the week or next week - depending on when I get my car back.

ttliang

can't wait......thanks.

Adobeman

Yup. They are pretty amazing aren't they. We have them on both our cars. They turned my wife from a white-knuckle snow driver into someone who now yells at everyone crawling and sliding along to just get out of her way. She's not a maniac (yet) just a whole lot more confident and relaxed in the snow. For sure the TL does get a bit mushier but as you say it is only three months of the year.

ttliang

i am thinking more like 4+ mo. from late nov. to early april. still drive carefully tho. don't be like that canadian lady crashed her TL doing 100kmh remember? i believe she had LM-22 on the car.

4G63

I have the LM-22's on my Evolution and I absolutely love them in the winter! No, I don't have nearly the dry traction as my stock Advan A046's, but if there's anything more than a 1/2 inch of snow on the ground, they're wonderful. Evo's are picky with tire selection, but the LM-22's really aren't too bad (as far as handling). Just a little FYI: I put about 8K miles on my car from Dec through Mid-March of '05 and they look brand new (9/32's out of 10/32's) considering they're H-rated and Evo's are hard on tires. Just my

Rodney

I just got these recently and they are a serious winter tire. You can completely forget about driving in a spirited fashion with these things!!, But in terms of getting the best "SNOW+ICE" tire, this is it.

TheNip73

So far I'm glad I got the Blizzak LM-22. I can tell it is a snow tire and kinda "bouncy". However, I only have about 150 miles on em and I haven't had em in the snow yet. I can only imagine how those WS-50's are handling...

Adobeman

Probably not as good as your LM-22s but not the end of the world. I have the MT so I stuck with the OEM size of 235/45-17 in a WS-50. I know that narrower is better for snows but since the WS-50s grip so well I wasn't that concerned. If you went to a 16" steel, and the the corresponding increase in aspect ratio of the tire, then I would guess that the LM22 in a 215/55-16 probably drives similar to the WS-50 in a 235/45-17. If not, and you stuck with the OEM size in an LM-22 then I guess you win

Remember, the "gloves come off" when the snow is on the road.