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2005 TL AT alignment questions - the shop checked the alignment but didn't adjust anything because, in their opinion, there wasn't anything they could do to get it within spec. Their suggestions were that the shocks might be shot or there might be damage from hitting a curb (there isn't that I know of but I'm the third owner). The car drifts to the right.
The car got new tires last summer and I haven't noticed any unusual tire wear yet but I don't put huge miles on it. Other suspension work from December 2015 to November 2016 prior to the alignment was:
- Replaced original shocks (car has ~170k miles) with Type S shocks with ~75k miles so that car sits slightly lower than stock
- Replaced torn compliance bushings with OEM bushings
- Replaced lower control arm bushings
- New upper adjustable ball joints (+/- 1.5 deg caster/camber)
- New lower ball joints
- New outer tie rod ends
I welcome any opinions and comments on getting the suspension set up properly ---->
Adjustable ball joints are a huge pain to adjust. So they might have just said "nah".
Twin tube shocks on a multilink/double wishbone car don't have anything to do with ride height or alignment. Your shocks could be blown to bits...and it wouldn't play any role at all in your alignment.
Your caster may be off because the adjustable ball joints were installed off-center. What brand did you buy? The ones I know of have one slot. If the slot is installed facing side to side, you can adjust camber. Front to back slots allow for caster adjustment. If it was installed with the slot sitting diagonally, though....
The caster difference could also be from a crash that you didn't mention/know about.
Or someone installed your compliance bushings incorrectly faced.
Or the tech had your steering wheel off center whilst on the rack. But thats a pretty big caster difference from side to side....
Were the bushings you bought genuine Honda/Acura? Aftermarket bushings are junk almost every single time. Including Moog. Furthermore, if they weren't clocked properly, they're probably torn. Im surprised you went the route of buying bushings. Unless you did the labour yourself, just buying new Honda/Acura arms would likely be cheaper. Plus, with a fresh LCA, you replace old ones that might have been bent.
The wandering to the right may be because the car will pull to the side with the most REAR toe in. Your right side is slightly more toed in than the left. But its a small difference. So it may have more to do with your caster.
They should have adjusted your front toe, though. That's just a turn of the tie rods.
why you run massive negative camber on the back being stock Type S height? I wouldn't go past -1.5 on the rear unless you take corner spirited like me. Here is mine current spec sheet.
Just looking at the specs the car should drift to the right because of the way the cambers are on the front. The car's front sub frame is push back and to the left. You can try shifting the sub frame forward and to the right by loosening all the sub frame bolts. There should be a little bit of slop but not much if it's pegged. You might need to bring it to a body shop and have the fame measure to see if its bent. Whether the frame is bent or not you probably will need them to pull the sub frame back where it belongs.
You have negative camber on the front left and positive camber on the right front. What that means is the car was hit low from the right side. Possibly bending the steering knuckles and lower control arms.
The rear camber is negative too. Shocks shouldn't really lower your car that much but if you say so. Another possibility is maybe your springs worn and are sagging.
You have negative camber on the front left and positive camber on the right front. What that means is the car was hit low from the right side. Possibly bending the steering knuckles and lower control arms.
All the camber numbers are in the negatives.
Could be from being slightly lower, and/or having adjustable ball joints that were never set correctly, and/or 170K mile UCA bushings.
I hate shops that do that....Frankly, they're just being damn lazy... My alignment dude zeroes out everything he can.. Especially toe.. He's a little pricier but totally worth every penny.
I used to go to Discount Tire Center for their lifetime alignment but I went in and out one time with this same scenario (all look green so GOOD TO GO) and i never went back.. There are some things that "good enough" isn't really good enough
Could be from being slightly lower, and/or having adjustable ball joints that were never set correctly, and/or 170K mile UCA bushings.
You're right my mistake. Scratch my earlier post.
The caster is off but very little. It probably will shift back into spec if you loosen all the suspension mounting bolts and shove the left front back and right front forward. Even loosen the sub frame too to get maximum shifting of the front end. On second thought might be best if an alignment shop did it because the suspension should be loaded when tightening.
The neg camber you can simply go back to OEM shocks or find a shop that's willing to try and adjust that out. Assuming your adjustable ball joints have enough adjustments in them to compensate. And they should after all that's what they're made for.
It's your caster that's causing it to pull. Somethings a miss and your going to have to systematically go through the front suspension to find what's causing it to be out. Something might not be positioned correctly, or like one of the other members commented that it might be some car direction play in the upper control arm that's causing the angle change. Camber and toe would need to be grossly off to cause it to pull, there is nothing wrong with a little camber
Thanks for the comments - I will look at them tonight and it looks like I owe some extra information.
A few things come to mind - the upper ball joints were MAS and +-1 degree, not 1.5 degrees. The shop said that there wasn't enough adjustment in them to compensate for so they left them alone.
FWIW, the alignment below is from a year ago after some of the suspension work. I have no idea why the rear before and after numbers changed below since they didn't work on it because nothing is adjustable and I've never worked on the rear either. Having said that, the toe magically went from out of spec last January to within spec in November.
things that can alter your result such as proper tire pressure, fuel tank level, does they use any weight ballast to simulate driver weight, craps people has in their trunk, tire tread wear, suspension component wear and tear or play. With any of these thing present you can get a perfect number and the moment you drove off the machine everything will be off again. I highly doubt even dealer pay attention to these details during alignment, well unless you are me. I had lexus dealer perform 4 alignment for the price of one lol.
Last edited by truonghthe; 01-19-2017 at 08:56 PM.
01-18-2017, 05:05 PM
