After an alignment
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 760
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From: New Jersey
After an alignment
Hey everyone. I took my car to get an alignment the next day after I got my f&f coilovers on. I went to this place called eagle tire in my town. I left the car there to get an alignment 3 hours later they call me that it's done. When I get there they told me that my lower rear control arm is going bad. My question is can you actually see if it's going bad? Is there any way I can check if it is. I've noticed this weird noise only driving at low speeds of 25-30 mph. It's kinda like a womping noise like when you have loud tires. Or dull tires. Any help will be apreciated thanks!
#1 Super Guy!
Joined: May 2007
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Usually you jack up the car and kinda pry the control arms near the bushings. If you see a lot of movement compared to other bushings you have a bad one. Be aware that larger bushings are softer and tend to deflect more. You can also try wiggling the tire up-down & left-right with your hands, but this will only find obvious play (usually loose bolts, steering rack or ball-joint problems). Definitely keep an eye on the suspect tire for uneven wear over the next few months.
Also keep in mind that lowering your car will wear your bushings faster anyways. This is because the rubber is now twisted up all the time like when your suspension hits a bump. The more you lower, the more you twist. The major step in lowering a car that is ALWAYS overlooked (by almost everyone everywhere) is re-setting all your suspension bushings. This is accomplished by loosening every bolt a few turns and then re-tightening & torquing them with the car on the ground at it's new ride height. Obviously doing this would require another alignment, so you may not want to bother.
Also keep in mind that lowering your car will wear your bushings faster anyways. This is because the rubber is now twisted up all the time like when your suspension hits a bump. The more you lower, the more you twist. The major step in lowering a car that is ALWAYS overlooked (by almost everyone everywhere) is re-setting all your suspension bushings. This is accomplished by loosening every bolt a few turns and then re-tightening & torquing them with the car on the ground at it's new ride height. Obviously doing this would require another alignment, so you may not want to bother.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 760
Likes: 31
From: New Jersey
Hey thanks alot bro! I notice that my rear driver side tire is dull just in the inside tho. Like it has a 1 inch wide line all around after that the rest of the tire still has meat. But I'm guessing that's just camber wear right? But why only one side? I had these tires since I had my other setup of tein s tech and tokico shocks but never got an alignment with that setup.maybe that's where that wear came from?
Hey thanks alot bro! I notice that my rear driver side tire is dull just in the inside tho. Like it has a 1 inch wide line all around after that the rest of the tire still has meat. But I'm guessing that's just camber wear right? But why only one side? I had these tires since I had my other setup of tein s tech and tokico shocks but never got an alignment with that setup.maybe that's where that wear came from?
#1 Super Guy!
Joined: May 2007
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Likes: 512
Yes, the TL has EXTREME amounts of toe-in in the rear suspension as you lower the car. It's so bad that one trip from Vegas to Reno with the back of my car fully loaded (completely stock suspension) was enough to cause minor feathering on the inner edges of my rear tires (Soft Kumho SPT's). Alilgnment is perfect at normal ride height, but once the rear starts to drop, it will chew the inner edges. This dynamic rear-toe is good for the stability of the car, but not so good for tires. 
On this car an alignment is MANDATORY every time you change ride height.
BTW: It's not minor negative camber that causes excess wear. It's the toe-in combined with camber. Negative camber alone can be good for tire wear if you enjoy tight cornering.
On this car an alignment is MANDATORY every time you change ride height.
BTW: It's not minor negative camber that causes excess wear. It's the toe-in combined with camber. Negative camber alone can be good for tire wear if you enjoy tight cornering.
Last edited by 94eg!; Jan 27, 2012 at 10:03 AM.
Yes, the TL has EXTREME amounts of toe-in in the rear suspension as you lower the car. It's so bad that one trip from Vegas to Reno with the back of my car fully loaded (completely stock suspension) was enough to cause minor feathering on the inner edges of my rear tires (Soft Kumho SPT's). Alilgnment is perfect at normal ride height, but once the rear starts to drop, it will chew the inner edges. This dynamic rear-toe is good for the stability of the car, but not so good for tires.
On this car an alignment is MANDATORY every time you change ride height.
BTW: It's not minor negative camber that causes excess wear. It's the toe-in combined with camber. Negative camber alone can be good for tire wear if you enjoy tight cornering.
On this car an alignment is MANDATORY every time you change ride height.
BTW: It's not minor negative camber that causes excess wear. It's the toe-in combined with camber. Negative camber alone can be good for tire wear if you enjoy tight cornering.
The rear tires toe out when the TL is loaded. Toe out, the inner part of the tires wear/feather.
the overexplainer
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,287
Likes: 385
From: OC, CA
Yes, the TL has EXTREME amounts of toe-in in the rear suspension as you lower the car. It's so bad that one trip from Vegas to Reno with the back of my car fully loaded (completely stock suspension) was enough to cause minor feathering on the inner edges of my rear tires (Soft Kumho SPT's). Alilgnment is perfect at normal ride height, but once the rear starts to drop, it will chew the inner edges. This dynamic rear-toe is good for the stability of the car, but not so good for tires.
On this car an alignment is MANDATORY every time you change ride height.
On this car an alignment is MANDATORY every time you change ride height.
It's a nice road trip car but damn when fully loaded it goes to town on the rear tires.
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2014 Jeep SRT
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From: Upstate NY
OP, how did your TL ride before your alignment? I haven't aligned mine yet, and the rear is really squirrly in rain and scary to drive in the snow. I can feel the back end sway every time I drive over a patch of light snow....and that's when I'm driving dead straight at a low speed.
OP, how did your TL ride before your alignment? I haven't aligned mine yet, and the rear is really squirrly in rain and scary to drive in the snow. I can feel the back end sway every time I drive over a patch of light snow....and that's when I'm driving dead straight at a low speed.
sounds like the sway bar isnt connected???
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 760
Likes: 31
From: New Jersey
OP, how did your TL ride before your alignment? I haven't aligned mine yet, and the rear is really squirrly in rain and scary to drive in the snow. I can feel the back end sway every time I drive over a patch of light snow....and that's when I'm driving dead straight at a low speed.
Question where is that womp womp womp noise I'm talking about at low speeds coming from? Can it be from my worn left rear tire?
Last edited by **WhItE-aNgEl**; Jan 27, 2012 at 12:00 PM.
i had this same problem after i lowered on Ksports.
Toe is off; causing the tires to pull you in every direction on even a slight bump. ^ causes the problems that ebelp has. Horrible swaying.
My car drove fine with out an alignment with the tein s tech setup it only pulled to the right occasionally. But with the f&f I drove one day with out an alignment and I would get thrown left and right occasionally after alignment everything is okay.
Question where is that womp womp womp noise I'm talking about at low speeds coming from? Can it be from my worn left rear tire?
Question where is that womp womp womp noise I'm talking about at low speeds coming from? Can it be from my worn left rear tire?
*womp womp* could be that; I'm not sure if a worn control arm bushing would cause a noise like that.
#1 Super Guy!
Joined: May 2007
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Originally Posted by World.Honda.com
http://world.honda.com/news/1997/t970702b.html
* Straight Line Characteristics:
The toe change associated with wheel movement is limited and linear. This is accomplished by aligning the virtual axis passing the trailing and lower arm mounting points and the virtual axis passing the leading and upper arm mounting points in parallel. This translates into increased straight line stability, higher rolling resistance and reduced understeer.
* Toe-in Characteristics
Under Cornering
The upper, lower and control arms are arranged to be true to the wheel longitudinal axis, which, coupled with a straight arm design, ensures high stiffness against lateral force. The wheel center to control arm span is longer than the one between the wheel center and the lower arm, allowing a greater displacement of the lower arm bushing to increase toe-in under cornering. This translates into improved handling characteristics and traceability.
* Under Braking
The diagonal arrangement of the trailing and leading arms increases toe-in under braking. The control arm on the other hand remains virtually unaffected, further allowing appropriate toe-in control. Handling characteristics are thus maintained even under braking.
* Straight Line Characteristics:
The toe change associated with wheel movement is limited and linear. This is accomplished by aligning the virtual axis passing the trailing and lower arm mounting points and the virtual axis passing the leading and upper arm mounting points in parallel. This translates into increased straight line stability, higher rolling resistance and reduced understeer.
* Toe-in Characteristics
Under Cornering
The upper, lower and control arms are arranged to be true to the wheel longitudinal axis, which, coupled with a straight arm design, ensures high stiffness against lateral force. The wheel center to control arm span is longer than the one between the wheel center and the lower arm, allowing a greater displacement of the lower arm bushing to increase toe-in under cornering. This translates into improved handling characteristics and traceability.
* Under Braking
The diagonal arrangement of the trailing and leading arms increases toe-in under braking. The control arm on the other hand remains virtually unaffected, further allowing appropriate toe-in control. Handling characteristics are thus maintained even under braking.
Last edited by 94eg!; Jan 27, 2012 at 12:44 PM.
For a test back in September, I put a dial indicator on the outside front of the rear tire, added weight to the trunk and the tires went to more toe in.
Guess I had better check my records before I reply so quickly.
My opinion: A spring cannot change its height.but since a brand new spring has never been compressed before,it might just get a little "broken in.which to me means an extremely minor difference 1/4" at most; if even that. I believe the real "settling" comes from the bushings, getting used to the new ride height..
#1 Super Guy!
Joined: May 2007
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by "camber kit" ; we all mean the Ingalls rear camber kit you can get from heeltoe. Comes with new rear arms for both camber and toe adjustment. Camber is not adjustable from factory; but toe is. Now with this kit; you can adjust both. Anyone that lowers their TL almost always has the incorrect toe problem.
which toe problem you ask? this is what a search came up with; have fun reading lol
https://acurazine.com/forums/search....0&pp=40&page=2
which toe problem you ask? this is what a search came up with; have fun reading lol
https://acurazine.com/forums/search....0&pp=40&page=2
#1 Super Guy!
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,337
Likes: 512
I still don't get it. You just searched for "TL toe adjust" in body and subject. That brings up every stupid thread ever made.
And the second link plainly states in the first paragraph that you don't need a camber kit if your only worried about your tires.
Can you please explain the "toe problem"?
As far as I'm aware, all you need to do is go get an alignment after you lower the car, so you can straighten toe out. None of that has anything to do with a camber kit (as your 2nd link explains repeatedly).
And the second link plainly states in the first paragraph that you don't need a camber kit if your only worried about your tires.
Can you please explain the "toe problem"?
As far as I'm aware, all you need to do is go get an alignment after you lower the car, so you can straighten toe out. None of that has anything to do with a camber kit (as your 2nd link explains repeatedly).
Last edited by 94eg!; Jan 30, 2012 at 12:26 PM.
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