RacialSlurs

according to M.T. mag 4/2005 the 5AT stops faster than 6MT

rets

You got the link? or copy for us??

KJSmitty

In my opinion the only benefit of having the Brembo brakes would be "looks" and less fade, not necessarily "better or shorter" braking..... Sure, if you actually experience fade you would have greater braking distances but in street driving this isn't an issue... In all reality you can only place so much pressure between rotor and caliper/pads before the tires lock up (ABS activates/takes over). Leaving the brake fade issue out of the argument both 5AT and 6MT brakes will lock up the tires, thus are overall equal. The largest factor in braking distance is determined by the traction of the specific tire. No doubt, whether the 5AT stops faster than the 6MT or visa versa, it was due to the conditions/tire...

Brewmaster

Assuming tires are similar (i.e. OEM) and using KJSmitty's explanation of lock-up .. I would think a contributing factor would be unsprung weight ... bigger rotors and calipers on the Brembos.

Theory: I'm assuming they weigh more and would therefore mean longer stopping. Anyone care to confirm or refute??

dsc888

Good theory. However, the calipers on the 6MT are aluminum vs. cast iron on the 5AT. The rotors on the 6MT have a larger diameter but is thinner. So overall, unsprung weight should be similar. And yes, braking is essentially the same in day to day driving with tire adhesion and road surface conditions determining which brake setup is more effective.

dsc888

PoochaKannInc

Less fade in repeated & continued braking is the advantage, not necessarily shorter braking distances. Braking distances can be even further reduced by changing to stickier tires.

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

here is something that i have wanted to ask Motor Trend about: the 5at stops at 123 feet from 60, while the 6mt with brembos stop at 143

what they said bout the brembo: little fade, Great feedback
what they said bout the automatic:......................

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

they tested the 6mt tl with the stickier tires..... still
6mt: 60mph -0 in 143 feet
5at: 60mph -0 in 120-123

Xpditor

In every test I have read in the enthusiast mags, the 5AT stops shorter than the 6MT. Usually a car length or so.

If anything, the tires on the 6MT should be stickier- esp the HP option.

I haven't figured this out either. Maybe in a pure racing environment the Brembos are more resisitant to fade?

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

i was off by a few feet....

RacialSlurs

6MT also stands 100lbs lighter. What good are bigger bader brakes if they don't stop you faster? The rotors are 10mm bigger but the 5AT has a thicker rotor. 5AT weight ratio has 1% more up front.

Brembos - means less wheel options, and brake pads that are almost impossible to find outside of the dealer.

Brewmaster

So lets review:
- (minus) They cost more, reduce options for replacement (not only of brake pads but wheels as well), and have longer stops

+ (plus) They reduce fade (not really an issue in street driving), they look snappy, and you can say "Hey .. it's got Brembos" ... okay! I'm sold

deandorsey

the brembos on the tl are the best factory brakes i have experienced, and i have owned MANY cars, one of the last being an S2K.

they do not fade, in fact the warmer they are, the harder they stop.
the rotors never once have pulsated or warped- which is a common problem with honda/acuras. just this weekend i had a 'panic' stop on I90 in ma, i have never been stopped with such force in my life....

brake dust and occasional squeaking is a small price to pay, for me, for the upgraded performance.

ZQQM

I didn't buy for the brembo's, i bought for the 6 speed. don't drive auto's.

In theory, while my brakes might take more length ( time ) to stop, I'll still get there before you.

Who would win a 0-100-0 race, 6mt or 5at......?

how about 3 0-100-0 races in a row.................?

Xpditor

Well... take a look at the chart above.

The answers to your questions are not that clear. Since we don't know how much less TIME it takes the 5AT to stop over the 6MT, we can't really calculate. But, judging by the 1/4 mile times, it could pretty much be a wash. That is assuming that the 6MT driver gets good launches every time and makes perfect shifts every time. He will be pretty busy for those 3 races in row.

The 5AT guy/girl could be changing DVD-As while racing unless he wanted to mess around with the Sport Shift.

Then, it begs the question: How many times in your life have you ever done that? What is the likelyhood you ever will?

pettydw

Both setups will stop way faster than that SUV or generic domestic car on your bumper.

ZQQM

"The 5AT guy/girl could be changing DVD-As while racing unless he wanted to mess around with the Sport Shift."

Thats not driving thats riding in your 5at.....



Then, it begs the question: How many times in your life have you ever done that? What is the likelyhood you ever will?

It's one of the standards that fast cars are judged by in Europe, kinda shows a more overall performance number for the car. And yes I have done it, 0-100-0, myself more than a few times.

A-TLvic882

Donte99TL

First off 0-100-0 test I think is dumb. No one I know does this in real world driving and if you are then what for? Second who cares if you get there first? If you did get there first it would only be and I am guessing here.05 seconds quicker. Does that matter to me in the real world? No….. Now if I was racing yes I would care but who here really bought this car to race. It a freakin four sedan and is by no means fast compared to real sports cars.

I bought my car to get me from point A to point B in the in stile and comfort. I think it does that just fine with an auto. If I want to go fast I jump on my Yamaha R1 and go to a track day.

I hear a lot of people saying how much better the 6mt is than the 5at. Better breaks better handling bla bla bla. People don’t realize that if you want go that much faster then they should just go to a driving school.

What good are your brakes and handling if you can’t control your car? I have taken driving classes and loved them. It has made me such a better driver. I think a driving school is the best mod anyone could do for their car. That's just my

Donte99TL

That made me laugh out loud and it is so true.

Legend2TL

vtec.net estimated the calpier weight difference at 6 punds lighter fro the Brembo versus the single piston used on teh automatic.

I didn't see a difference in rotor weight, but I assume the difference in the two can't be more than a pound or two either way.

Legend2TL

One factor that cannot be measured is brake pedal feel and modulation. On the reasons Brembo's are a little more special than the average 4 piston caliper is they have a special coating on their brake caliper pistons that reduces static and dynamic friction. This means less stiction (friction term used on brake pistons and suspension systems) which translates into better contol and modulation of the brakes.

I was kinda surprised the RL uses 4 piston calipers from another brake component vendor.

Legend2TL

This is very true, the main reason BMW said it did NOT put 4 piston calipers on the next gen M5 is that it does not affect braking distance enough for a road car with road tires. The friction limitations of the tires is the main factor in short stopping distances.


Oddly enough my brother's 1988 M6 does have 4 piston Brembo front calipers.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

The 0 to 100mph to 0 mph is obviously of no real world significance, but it says a lot of about a cars overall power and braking ability. How important are most of the figures published in C&D/R&T/MT in real life.... c'mon buddy.

DevTL

Well I've got a 7-11 a little more than 1/4 mi from my house and some times I need a slurpee really fast.

chusteveb

what does Acura say the specs are for both set ups?

A-TLvic882

Did you recognize this I wona see your braking distance on 5AT, with rotor on fire, without brembo





+ 1000 times

Turbowhat2

i decided to delete the post. Flaming not necesary

Turbowhat2

well i decided to not say anything, but youve convinced me otherwise. First of all, the brakes are glowing because of hard braking. This happens pretty often. Theyre not on fire retard.

secondly, i just want to bring up that the fwd platform takes away a lot from the TL. I have a 5at and i wish i had gotten a G35 coupe or mustang cobra. Those are closer to sportscars than the TL. The Brembo brakes really dont do that much for a car. Sports brakes are supposed to last shorter than normal brakes but are designed to take more of a beating (Unless you have ceramic brakes). Now if you would like to prove that your allpowerful fast TL can hang with actual sportscars Come by my house sometime and you can race me in my dads 911 turbo.

The TL makes you comfortable as you sip your morning coffee on your commute to work. Dont try to tell me its gonna race anything respectable and win.

Donte99TL

Damn I would buy a 6mt in your case. Shit do you want my R1

Donte99TL

I give you A+ plus on effort but your whole post is just idiotic. It’s absolutely asinine to compare what that car is doing on a closed course with a skilled driver to what we do in real world driving.

Please reread my post and rethink what you just posted. I am sure you will see the light and question yourself.

Second of all, do you know how much computers control our vehicle? Drive by wire, VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist), ABS (Antilock breaking system), traction control. That’s riding no matter which way you think of it even if you have a 6mt or a 5mt. Go to a driving school and drive a car that doesn’t have any of these features and you will see the real meaning of driving.

Not trying to flame just trying to show the light to others.

Formula 350

OK, here is my 2 cents...

Almost every other place I have heard of, the 6 speed stops shorter than the automatic...

Motor Week had the 6 speed stop at 115 feet!! This was shorter than the might 911 they tested. So, one magazine with one test will not convince me that my car will take longer to stop...

And a real world example... I was on an abandoned industrial road and got up to 135 plus.. hit the brakes hard and stopped very quickly, no fade, not wheel lock... just throwing me forward like no other car I have been in...

Legend2TL

Obviously you have not watched UK Honda Accord's race in Europe's Touring Car Championship. And yes they are front-wheel drive.

Xpditor

Let's keep the name calling and combativeness down so this thread can stay open. We're all family here. :gheyhug:

Legend2TL

Not trying to flame either but also trying to show the light....

Depending on what you mean by control, computers do control the TL engine, climate control, radio, safety functions, however VSA and ABS are augmentation safety control systems that do not intervene until 9.9/10 of the vehicle limits for a given condition are reached. The steering is a mechanical system with hydraulic power assist, the brakes are a hydraulic system. The ABS and VSA only act when wheel speed differential and yaw rate versus steering input is enough to require some assistance.

I agree with your "real meaning of driving" spirit, I take out my motorcycle for true enjoyment. But just because a vehicle has VSA, ABS or DBW does not mean it degrades from the experience, since the vast majoprity of the time these systems sit back and just monitor and do nothing.

brahtw8

The Brembos are the superior braking system, period.

Carry on . . .

dwhitten

If nothing else, the brembo pads as suppose to provide better stopping performance (not just better fad control). That is why when you buy the a-spec package the 6 MT does not get a brake upgrade by the 5 AT does (it gets brembo pads).

Here are a couple of road-test links that talk about the braking performance of the 6mt:

Edmunds
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...7/pageId=57722
115 ft - their test car did have HPTs but otherwise...

Motorweek
http://www.pbs.org/mpt/motorweek/search.shtml
115 ft - 6mt with HPTs probably

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

From the test dates, the 6MT and 5AT were not tested at the same time. I assume the cars were not even tested by the same driver, on the same track, at the same temperature, humidity, etc.

We all know that different environment will yield inconsistent test result. Brand new car will not stop as short as a properly broken-in one. Even the very same car but tested on different road, temperature, by different driver, etc will show different results.

So unless the cars are tested side by side in the same environment, by the same driver, wearing the exact same tires, we can't really tell that the Brembo is actually outperformed by the 5AT brakes.

Donte99TL

All good valid points Legend2T, but once all these systems kick in then you’re not really driving your just riding and the computer is doing it for you to a point.

Driving a car in snow or rain these systems are always making corrections for you. Or during a panic stop the ABS kicks in. You’re no longer in control the computer is.

Now when you are in a car that does not have any of these systems you are always driving not matter what the condition are.

I am not trying to say it degrades from the driving spirit. The only reason I brought up the computer stuff was because of his comment which was “That’s not driving that’s riding in your 5at.....” Just because he has control of when a gear shift happens doesn’t mean he is driving. Sh!t I can control when a gear shift happens in my 5at even the first to second shift.

True driving would be you not having any of those safety features. Then all of a sudden you car starts to get sideways in the snow/rain. You then correct for it and keep the car in control. Or you need to make a panic stop in the rain from hitting some and you pull it off with out crashing. The only computer that is assisting is the one in your head. That would be driving.

I hope all this makes sense. I am trying to explain it after having some drinks already this afternoon. Starting off a little early today

missmyprelude

I own a 6MT and have been driving a 5AT loaner and I can say that the brakes on my 6MT feel much better and seem to stop significantly better. I've made a few quick stops in the 5AT that didn't make me feel confident; I've never had that problem in my 6MT. Of course, this could be due to wear and such on the loaner, but both cars have about the same mileage on them. Also, both cars still have the crappy EL42s, so that's not a factor in this case.

In any case, I'll take the Brembos on my car over the 5AT brakes anyday.