Sorry for the long post...but here it goes.

About a week ago as i was driving my TL home on the highway it suddenly started loosing power....it started cutting in and out and because traffic was slow and i couldn't keep up speed, it stalled in the middle of the highway. I tried cranking it but it wouldn't start, just turns over. I called acura roadside assistance and they towed me to the dealership.

i left the car there and the next day i call them and ask them what's wrong, they said they hadn't diagnosed it yet but that the engine was probably overrevved. I tell them that that's impossible since i know i did not do it, they said ok we'll check. After a few days they call me and say i have diesel fuel in my gas tank, that it was gonna cost $400 to drain the tank and some more to change the plugs and so on...i was really confused, i had a receipt of my last fill up and it clearly states v-power, plus i know i wouldn't put diesel no matter what. I showed them that and they didnt' buy it so i called inspection on the gas station.

a few more days and the results came in that the gas was fine...they still kept up their diesel theory so now they're waiting for testing of the actual fuel in the car. We (me and my dad) insisted there was no diesel in the tank and asked them to do a compression test....they unwillingly did so and when my dad called them to check they said it was fine...when we went there to check on the car we asked them for the paperwork of the test and they turned back with 30psi in cyl #4 (which is obviously way below what it should be).

they said they made a mistake and whatnot, but anyways. We tell them that the diesel theory was a waste of time since there is definately something wrong with cyl #4 (they didn't even test the other ones because they couldn't be bothered).

they come back to the overrevved theory and the bent valves...and that they are gonna have to tear down the engine to find out, at our expence, and we have to sign an authorisation for that. Then, when they find out what's wrong with it and determine if it's my fault or not, then they'll cover it under warranty (or not).

Now, based on what i've read on this forum...i know that if i have overrevved the engine by misshifting, it would log that into the car's computer and they would know off the bat without having to take the engine apart....i ask them if that's true, and they say MABE. I'm like...what?? mabe?? you should know not me....long story short they told me to take my car somwhere else.

i'm gonna call honda's client services and dispute that with them...they have already kept my car for a week, with no loaner (they claim i have driven their loaners wrecklessly so they have refused to give me a loaner), and they havn't done anything to it but give me false diagnostics.

anybody had anything remotely close to an experience like this??? this is just insane, i don't feel like getting into any more verbal fights with the service advisors and manager at my dealership...

 

You been blowing by them TB SS's on the highway again?

J/K....

Anywho.... they should not be charging you anything until they prove you are at fault for the issues at hand.

What is your history with your dealership?

 

BY LAW they have to establish by a written work order- that you are allowing them to do a tear down, and you will pay for their time if its not warranty- otherwise they are just car strippers

Its really easy to downshift and buzz the engine past redline even for an instant!
Until the engine is torn down and inspected- and if a bad valve, or bent thru customer abuse or defect part

Besides acura 1-800-382-2238 x5 who takes a report- the phone person cannot help- only takes note and managers call back
Contact the BBB and more importantly- your State auto repair bureau...the whole compression test thing is messed up!

 

Thanx for the input...i know it's possible to make that mistake and overrev the engine, but especially at the time it broke down, it was 108 degrees outside and traffic was rather heavy...and i'm an experienced manual driver (been doing it since 17)...and i never had a problem, never misshifted once...i know i did not mis shift it, and then again my point is that even if i did, it should be no problem for them to see that just by checking the Onboard Diagnostics.

my history at the dealership hasn't been too good to my experience, but i've never made a probelm before. Every time i go in for an oil change, i'm friendly with them and they are with me....but the work they do i'm not impressed with. I always tell them to use 5W-20 Syntheric (what i want them to put in every time)...and it's sometimes eather 10W-30 synthetic, or 5W-30 non-synthetic (they forgot...), and mabe sometimes they get it right. This is my acura dealer and they keep messing up my oil changes, when it clearly says 5W-20 on the cap and that's what i want them to use...it's also bad to change from synthecic to regular and back, these oils don't mix....i feel like the people working there are monkying around, how can i trust them.

I realize that they have to do a tear down (by law) to see what happend, but me overrevving it should be out of the question via the ECU, all they need to do is check. My problem is that it's a 10 hour job just to tear it down, by their going hourly rate (i think it's around $120 an hour)...if they somehow make it up to be my fault (which i'm afraid they'll try their best to)...i have to pay them $1200 just for that. If i know that then i might as well put that money toward a new engine rather than give it to them to tell me i need a new one...that's one expencive diagnostic!!!

that's my biggest problem in signing for them to tear the engine down, and that's why i'm gonna have to talk to corporate.

(btw the car has 31,500 miles on it and on recent oil changes it used up 1-2 quarts of oil for 5,000 miles, i know it's acceptable but it still seems like a lot, and i feel that this engine might have been damaged by their careless oil changes)

 

Call acura corpertate and tell them this. This could have been a sign of a dying motor, a motor shouldn't comsume that much oil unless it is FI or it pretty old... or a rotary.

 

The ECU is not the super rememberer that we would like to believe- or they would plug in and see whats up- the dealer doesnt want a fight- they are just people at work too--
who are trying to find the problem for you.

Now that you add the fact to the story of history of SEVERE oil consumption, the whole story changes-
thats FAR more likely to be a piston ring problem- in which case a WET and DRY compression test are in order- if a shot of oil into the cylinder raises compression- you have a ring problem. Thats a warranty issue

30 pounds!!!! - thats barely there at all- you should have in the high 100s- all equal across the board like 180- 177- 180- 181 etc

On teardown- They would start with the cylinder head removal, looking for a bad valve- bent valves from piston contact during an overrev. Depending on damage to the pistons- then one has to look for problems down the line in the rod bearings and crankshaft.
A basic bent valve overrev (we have full contact- zero clearance engines) will run about $2500 to repair

As for the oil- you can run it back and forth between regular and synthetic, and viscosity, or you can even BLEND/mix any of the modern regular, or synthetic, or semi synth oils- says so right on the bottle!!- does NOT hurt the engine at all
The ratings on them mean so little in real LIFE- 5-20, 5-30 ARE FINE IN THE TL

Go get your car back- have a real mechanic do wet/dry test, and a cylinder leak down test, to confirm exactly whats going on. Invest in a sound opinion!
Then go meet another Acura dealer's service dept!

 

Note- the oil change tech at the dealer is the lowest man on the pole- a jr jr tech learning things. They may or may not read english or understand to see the work order for specific instructions-- a car pulls into the pit- unscrew this and put the same kind back on.
Add oil here to this hole 5 qts!
they may see Synthetic on the work order and put it in- they may not look twice and long enough to read it.

How does the OP know what oil they are putting in?- do you stand there and watch - then complain after and make them put in what you asked for and agreed to pay for?
Instead of stopping the tech before they have to repeat the change-- with what you wanted?
thats not making you the friends you think~

 

I never make them redo it...they have a window that you can see in the service area and a few times i've been fortunate enough so that they put my car up on the spot right infront of the window. I see them pouring 10W-30 synthetic, but i'm not gonna go in there and ask him wtf he's doing.

When i go and pay for my oil change i tell them what i saw, he says it's fine so i'm not gonna argue so i just drive my car off...thinking it's under warranty anyways.

i've never made a problem about it i've just let them know a few times....point is why am i the one to observe such things...this is the official acura dealer, they shuld know my car best and put the right viscosity oil in my car...why do they even have 10W-30? is there any acura that even requires that? mabe some older models idk.

if it wasn't for service records (which don't mean anything to me anymore), i would of went to wal-mart and buy my own oil and change it myself.

btw, i have receipts where it clearly states viscocity different from 5w-20 and receips that say use synthetic and it comes back as regular oil...idk...but to me, this seems very unprofessional. I wouldn't expect this in a kia dealership, much less an acura one....is it really this hard for them to do a job as simple as this? it's not a one time mistake, if it was it'll be ok, but this happens almost every time i've been there.

 

welcome to life! things happens- go meet the techs at lunch~
Where you live 10-30 is fine
read the owner manual for explanation of outside temps and oil choice
For you- the important number is the 2nd one- while 20 is what acura said for gen3- it was part of govt CAFE program mileage BS- they got better test results on less dense 20w, but its better for the engine to run -30

As for warranty and oil change and the book being filled out-
YOU can buy oil- keep the receipts- date and mileage written on them- put info in book- change the oil and filter yourself and sign it-
or a private shop can do the same
All you need is proof it was done every 7500 miles.. IF there were an engine failure claim.

 

Food for thought.... not sure about Acura... but dodge, Subaru, Mitsubishi were all notorious for searching popular car forums in times of dispute for signs of abuse. Hard to link a screen name to a real life person, unless they have pictures posted and other clues....

What I am getting at.... is if you have anything posted on this forum that may point to some kind of abuse (red lining 4th gear @ 125 MPH going uphill with 4500lbs in the car) it may be in your best interest to edit it out until your dispute is resolved.

You have already seen that you have a local cop on this forum..... lets hope no one associated with Acura is looking for information in this forum

If you cruise over to Evo, WRX, or SRT forums you will occasionally see stories about folks who had warranty claims denied because they posted information about participating in Racing (Of any kind whether street or timed event), or they have information about their mods online. At one time The Evo and the WRX owners were in an uproar because there were Subaru and Mitsubishi district Warranty Reps (not sure the correct industry term) that would attend AutoX events, or cruise local club web sites looking for plate numbers and flag warranties. They wouldn't find out until after the warranty was flagged for months.

Again... just food for thought..... Warranty claims are expensive and some makes will go far to make sure they can limit their liability.

 

Do yourself a favor, go to another Acura dealer and be nice this time, sounds like the dealer is just pulling the usual dealer crap and if you got hot with them most likely they are just being asses as a result. Also, what of them not giving you a loaner because they stated you were too rough with them? Do you beat on the loaners?

 

Living in Vegas, they're probably doing you a favor by using the 10-30. Synthetics and regular oils mix just fine, nothing to worry about.


My thought on the whole thing, I was thinking bent valves from the beginning. 30psi of compression is not enough to run on. The engine will not start with only 30psi. It will, however run if you bend the valves at high rpms until your rpms come down below say 4,000rpm or so. The loss of compression had to have happened between the time you started it to the time it died. If it were only a couple cylinders the engine would still run, it would just run rough with a couple dead holes. Since yours doesn't run at all, it's safe to assume all 6 cylinders lost compression. What are the odds that the rings or something other than bent valves happened on all 6 cylinders at exactly the same time??? I say bent valves or it somehow jumped a few teeth on the timing belt.

 

yea this engine failure really has me confused...nothing can explain it really, i know i didnt overrev the engine, i was there...also it doesn't make sence cuz the engine was stalling and then comming back to life at higher rpm, at lower rpm, say 3000, i was flooring it and it was eather accelerating extremely slowly or decelerating extremely slowly (in 2nd or 3rd)...then if it got to around 4000rpm it suddenly started accelerating full throttle as normal...if felt like it had run out of gas...when i was pumping the thorttle i could hear it make a deep intake sound when i was pressing on the gas....but it didn't go, then i downshift into 2nd, or 1st sometimes to get it to over 4000rpm, and then it starts pulling hard.

about the 30psi compression test, i don't even know if they did it because they didn't have any paperwork for it and when we asked them to see the test they came up with a paper that says 30psi on cyl 4...so they could be making that up as well, because prior to that they said they did a compression test and it was fine.

one possible explenation i can think of is that vtec got stuck open/engagued, and when the engine falls below 3000rpm or so, it starts dying...and once it does, it cannot start at starter speeds of 300rpm or however fast the starter spins it.

i was able to start the engine at highway speeds using the wheels, and once it got to over 4000rpm it accelerated quick, so it doesn't make sence that 30psi on all cylenders would do that...it just makes no sence.

 

btw...does anyone know which cyl is #4?

 

Beating on loaners (allegedly), crashing into trees and now, presumably, bent valves.

I dunno .... but suffice to say, I'm skeptical.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170603

 

great work lol

frankly i don't care who beleives me on here...the only reason i'm posting this is to hear some responces, i don't even know why i'm doin it...mabe i shudn't, every time someone posts things like this on here it gets into an online flamewar...lol

anyways, it don't matter...but just for thought, the reason i was said to beat on loaners is because apperantly someone called the dealership because they had seen me doin 110+ in the MDX they gave me....can the MDX even go that fast?? idk, but i know the most i did wasn't close to 100mph. and how would driving 100mph even be considered beating on the car? you could be just cruising, another thing, if i flew by them at 110+ how would they see my plate? they also said they got another call (2 in total) that also claimed i was doin 100 in a school zone...i think that's pretty insane for one, and another thing is there is no school zone around my house, which is where i drove the car. i've had loaners twice before and never had any problems...besides, what are they scared about? if i crash it i will have to pay for it, not them.

 

That is a text book description of bent valves. I could not have described it better than that.

The only other thing it could possibly be is if it somehow jumped time (cam timing, not ignition).

 

Well I guess those loaners a suspect to them. And being in the business world; I would give them legitimate reason to suspect the damage was done by mishaps caused by the driver.

Plus based on history, they AGAIN have legitimate reason to suspect mishap..... Take the punishment, get it fixed, and learn how to drive!!!!!

Apologies to the mod's but, I think this is deserved....

 

well, you appear to be quick to judge...the fact that the dealership is trying their best to pull a scam on me however isn't making a difference in your judgement at all.

the fact that they 1st told me i have diesel in my tank and asked me to pay them something like $600 for draiging the tank and changing the spark plugs, which was not gonna do anything since there was no diesel in the tank but void my warranty at their convinience is perfectly fine...or that when i proved there was no diesel in the tank they came up with a probably fake compression test (for reasons i have stated before) is also fine.

yea...i guess i deserved it

 

It might very well be that your previous "accident" caused a little more damage than a cracked bumper...

 

I'm trying my best not to judge because I've been on the other side when everyone thought I was lying. The whole diesel thing is messed up if that's true.

I doubt the compression test was fake because there's a 99% chance you bent the valves or skipped time or both.

Assuming you didn't skip time since that just about never happens, the only way to bend all of the valves is to overrev period. If it were just one cylinder, you might make the argument that it had a valve stick or a weak valve spring but not all six.

 

i hear ya man, and i wasn't talking about you judging...that was aimed at "Fulani has a TL"

the fact that they said they tested only one cylender though makes me doubt it's all 6...the fact of it shutting off makes you think it's all 6, but if i bent the valves on all 6 then i doubt it'll run at all, but it did.

 

Any updates? Surely they have had time to tear down the engine and look at it by now

 

^^^surely, but not. They're still waiting for the fuel sample from the car to come in...

 

They are still holding onto the Diesel theory?

 

The navi system records the top speed of the car along with the ECU. You can reset it all via the navi controls and the Drive by wire reset procedures. The MDX can go up to 130, and more than that if you get the Apexi RSM to get past the speed limiter.

 

yes they are...if they proove it's diesel it'll void my warranty no matter what as they said, so that's what they're hoping for.

 

That MDX, along with my TL do not have navis.

 

a thought-
if the tech found 30 psi on a cylinder- the easy one to reach- or the one most often known to suffer damage in an overrev--- there is no need to keep cranking the engine and possibly causing extensive damage to it. If the timing belt has broken, or cam damaged and timing and valve operation MAY not be correct....
Its time to pull the heads off and see whats going on.

Sure- pump out a fuel sample from the line at engine, and one at the tank drain if possible
Send to lab for analysis
You can get an oil sample and send to Blackstone-labs.com for analysis
they can tell what metals are in the oil- if something broke, they can tell

Here is a 2nd thought
ALL gas station in the usa are supposed to have a special green handle for Diesel fuel- and the diameter of the diesel fuel nozzle itself, is LARGER than the size for our normal gas-
so you can put regular gas in a diesel tank by mistake -
but to get diesel in a regular car tank- it wont go in the filler hole properly- so you would have to stand there getting ounce by ounce of fuel into the car, pennies on the meter---most of which splashes back on you...
by which time we hope you know there is a problem!

 

Many cars- I would suspect rentals and loaners to be at the top of the list, are being equipped with a very cheap gps tracker that slips on under the car. It records all movements and time data
They can look at it and download complete useage- speeds- everything off of it

Sophisticated ones, and the ones used by many delivery companies and parents, have a tie in to the cell phone... and send instant data to a website-
so you can be looked in on anytime.

The most fun is when the kids are out, and you KNOW they are not going where they are supposed to be.
Have the laptop with a wireless connection to the internet- hmmmm 65 in a 40 zone, looks like they stopped at this house ---- where they were not supposed to be...
and pull up behind them at a light- call them up
Oh, you are where?- ok- who is with you= reeeealllly? Are you ~Certain~ of that?
Walk up and knock on the window- HI KIDS!!!!!!
Aw why dont you love your stepdad! Im not evil- Im just concerned about you~
HAHAHAHAHHAAAAA (Maniacal laugh fades into background)

 

This is true! I have a Co-worker who had a diesel incident...... while she was filling up she complaine to her hubby about the gas pump not fitting in the filler hole....... lol....

but Fuel delivery trucks also make mistakes sometimes by putting the wrong fuel in the wrong storage tanks...

 

I don't understand why you keep saying, "Even if I did.... blah blah blah".
It just shoulds like you have a little guilt inside that you don't want to admit to everybody. Nobody's gonna come on here and say, "I am a stupid ass". If you would just tell us what REALLY happened, we could give you an idea of what REALLY happened to your engine. As far as the story goes, I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. You've used that same line so many times.



Now this just makes you sound stupid. Why the hell would you ask if you messed up your engine by overrevving? OF COURSE IT WILL. There is a redline for a reason. If this is the first thing you asked me when you come into my shop, I'd tell you to take out your checkbook and get ready to do some writing.

Even if you did...shouldn't even be a thought in your head. Are you trying to say you can't recall whether you misshifted or not?

Just the way you drive shows that this could be your mistake. Also your responsibility for others' belongings.

if I crash it....you shouldn't even be thinking about crashing cars when you're driving. Also, you shouldn't be testing VSA...why the fuck do you think they have engineers who do hundreds of tests on cars before they are in production? Are their PROFESSIONAL tests not good enough for you?

I work in the auto industry, and I've yet to see anybody do this shit. We tell you whats wrong. We don't make you try to do shit you don't need. If it wasn't required, we wouldn't highly recogmend it. Obviously the mechanics-bullshit stereotype has gotten to you. It's not always how it works.

 

I'm staying out of the who's fault it is game.

Even if it had diesel in the tank, that doesn't cause bent valves and he would not have been able to get up enough speed to bend the valves in the first place. Even if it caused massive detonation, what are the odds all 6 cylinders went at exactly the same time?? The engine overrevved and bent the valves period. Timing belt is not broken or he would not have been able to get it to run at high rpms after this happened. The only hope and I mean only is that it jumped time (skipped a tooth on the belt). That should be covered under warranty.

 

Any idea how to pull up the top speed info?

 

Really, I wouldn't be so harsh on him if he didn't type the way he did. He also mentioned flooring the car to make it go above 4,000 RPM then downshifting to get MORE speed. eventually, he was at 1st gear.. on the highway. Last I remembered, first gear was for taking off...

 

Wow, I didn't read that..... Poor car.

 

If there is something serious wrong with a car where it barely runs, or runs very poorly, the only thing that should be done is to turn it off and get a tow.

Coast out of traffic, or whatever you can do and shut it off.

Anything else risks serious damage, and I am not sure the manufacturer should have to fix the results of the driver being stupid.

LONG gone are the days when you could try to keep something going despite running badly.
That went away with fuel injection and catalytic converters.....

I read lots of stories about people driving with the oil light on (a friend of my wifes did that for weeks!), overheating engines, serious misfires, cel, etc.

I would never blame the car or the maker for the results.

Brett

 

Yes, I do read every word in a thread before I respond, so I know what I was saying. [I hate cars], I don't come on here to flame anybody, I only respond to what information I was given. I don't, by any means, come on here to make anybody feel bad or 'diss' anybody. It is some simple logics people must understand when they talk on forums. There will be negative and positive feedbacks to your problems, and usually, people don't always give truthful, or not enough, information. I read his posts, and as I read through it, it was apparant that he isn't easy on his LUXURY sports sedan.

He reminds of the 'on da low'(signatured) guy. The one that came on here saying he bent his valves and the dealer should replace it.

 

[QUOTE=Be-in my TL][quote]i was flooring it and it was eather accelerating extremely slowly or decelerating extremely slowly (in 2nd or 3rd)...then if it got to around 4000rpm it suddenly started accelerating full throttle as normal...if felt like it had run out of gas...when i was pumping the thorttle i could hear it make a deep intake sound when i was pressing on the gas....but it didn't go, then i downshift into 2nd, or 1st sometimes to get it to over 4000rpm, and then it starts pulling hard.
LOL. I've been on both sides as the mechanic that customers are sure is going to screw them and I've been the customer that the mechanic tried to screw.

In his defense, I think he was doing the downshifting after the valves were bent. My friend did the same thing in his M3. He misshifted not once but twice in 30 seconds of each other. Once the valves were bent, the engine would not run under 4,000 rpm. But, if we kept the rpms up above 4,000 it would run as this raised the dynamic compression enough to fire. Once off the freeway, we had to keep downshifting to never let rpms get below 4,000. Once the car was stopped and the engine was off, the car would never start again. He is one of those guys that has totaled evey car he's owned. The list includes the M3 that he rolled after fixing the bent valves, an 89 Turbo Trans-Am which had my turbo on it that he was borrowing, a supercharged lifted Silverado and unfortunately a soon to be totaled mint condition GN.

 

Just look at it this way, your GN just got a little more valuable. One less GN on the road!