Valve Chatter/Pinging/Knocking in 2007 TypeS
09-11-2007, 01:23 PM
#201
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Despite my best efforts, I've given up on completely eliminating the pinging myself.
Just for fun I sourced some NGK plugs that are 3 (yikes!) heat ranges colder than stock. I figured that these plugs coupled with a really wide gap should result in fouling and misfires versus knocking and pinging. Fair guess, right?
Well much to my amazement, the engine still pings. Now it is much more gentle/subdued than it has ever been, and the ECU seems to correct it in short order--however that initial pinging remains and sounds like garbage. Fortunately though, once it pings, it doesn't seem to come back for a while. I guess this is as good as it gets.
The engine is also smoother than it has ever been, even that uneven bit of running it had at ~~1000 RPM has improved. The engine is quieter now, and some of the background whirring noises under the hood are more apparent.
Both the original plugs and the first set of replacement plugs (one heat range colder) showed signs are extreme overheating:
The ground electrode on the original plugs presented some shiny green and blue colors and were otherwise completely free of deposits.
The replacement plugs had some blue discoloration where the ground electrode weld meets the base of the plug (bottom of threads) and the ground electrode itself had a bright appearance.
I'll take a look at these cold plugs in a few hundred miles to see how they are doing.
I've considered just putting the original plugs back in the car and drive it until I destroy a piston. Honda's solution will probably be to install new pistons or perhaps strengthened pistons, neglecting to actually tune the engine like it is supposed to be.
Honda needs to wake up and address this problem NOW. I'm tired of regretting my purchase and I'm tired of feeling like I have to beg to have my car fixed. If I had bought a cheap car, I would be more tolerant of excessive spark knock. But this is a car that touts precision, yet it sounds like the engineers were hungover when they tuned this engine.
Just for fun I sourced some NGK plugs that are 3 (yikes!) heat ranges colder than stock. I figured that these plugs coupled with a really wide gap should result in fouling and misfires versus knocking and pinging. Fair guess, right?
Well much to my amazement, the engine still pings. Now it is much more gentle/subdued than it has ever been, and the ECU seems to correct it in short order--however that initial pinging remains and sounds like garbage. Fortunately though, once it pings, it doesn't seem to come back for a while. I guess this is as good as it gets.
The engine is also smoother than it has ever been, even that uneven bit of running it had at ~~1000 RPM has improved. The engine is quieter now, and some of the background whirring noises under the hood are more apparent.
Both the original plugs and the first set of replacement plugs (one heat range colder) showed signs are extreme overheating:
The ground electrode on the original plugs presented some shiny green and blue colors and were otherwise completely free of deposits.
The replacement plugs had some blue discoloration where the ground electrode weld meets the base of the plug (bottom of threads) and the ground electrode itself had a bright appearance.
I'll take a look at these cold plugs in a few hundred miles to see how they are doing.
I've considered just putting the original plugs back in the car and drive it until I destroy a piston. Honda's solution will probably be to install new pistons or perhaps strengthened pistons, neglecting to actually tune the engine like it is supposed to be.
Honda needs to wake up and address this problem NOW. I'm tired of regretting my purchase and I'm tired of feeling like I have to beg to have my car fixed. If I had bought a cheap car, I would be more tolerant of excessive spark knock. But this is a car that touts precision, yet it sounds like the engineers were hungover when they tuned this engine.
09-12-2007, 12:20 PM
#203
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Originally Posted by 08CBPtypeS
i dont think it does affect the 08s cuz my dads hasnt done it yet. i bet they fixed it for the 08s. maybe get an 08 reflash or ecu
Most other TL Type S cars don't ping, either.
RLs have used the same engine since the '05 model year and most of them don't ping, either.
I don't believe Acura changed anything in terms of the engine or the ECU from '07 to '08.
I'm of the opinion that people who are experiencing legitimate pinging problems when using the correct octane fuel have cylinder heads, pistons and/or block deck heights that weren't machined correctly. That could easily result in an elevated static compression ratio, hence elevated cylinder pressures.
Has anyone with the "pinging" had their cylinder pressures checked? (Acura and the dealer would have to know what the normal cylinder pressure range is for this engine. The compression ratio by itself does not dictate cylinder pressure.)
09-13-2007, 04:53 PM
#204
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Originally Posted by junktionfet
Despite my best efforts, I've given up on completely eliminating the pinging myself.
Just for fun I sourced some NGK plugs that are 3 (yikes!) heat ranges colder than stock. I figured that these plugs coupled with a really wide gap should result in fouling and misfires versus knocking and pinging. Fair guess, right?
Well much to my amazement, the engine still pings. Now it is much more gentle/subdued than it has ever been, and the ECU seems to correct it in short order--however that initial pinging remains and sounds like garbage. Fortunately though, once it pings, it doesn't seem to come back for a while. I guess this is as good as it gets.
The engine is also smoother than it has ever been, even that uneven bit of running it had at ~~1000 RPM has improved. The engine is quieter now, and some of the background whirring noises under the hood are more apparent.
Both the original plugs and the first set of replacement plugs (one heat range colder) showed signs are extreme overheating:
The ground electrode on the original plugs presented some shiny green and blue colors and were otherwise completely free of deposits.
The replacement plugs had some blue discoloration where the ground electrode weld meets the base of the plug (bottom of threads) and the ground electrode itself had a bright appearance.
I'll take a look at these cold plugs in a few hundred miles to see how they are doing.
I've considered just putting the original plugs back in the car and drive it until I destroy a piston. Honda's solution will probably be to install new pistons or perhaps strengthened pistons, neglecting to actually tune the engine like it is supposed to be.
Honda needs to wake up and address this problem NOW. I'm tired of regretting my purchase and I'm tired of feeling like I have to beg to have my car fixed. If I had bought a cheap car, I would be more tolerant of excessive spark knock. But this is a car that touts precision, yet it sounds like the engineers were hungover when they tuned this engine.
Just for fun I sourced some NGK plugs that are 3 (yikes!) heat ranges colder than stock. I figured that these plugs coupled with a really wide gap should result in fouling and misfires versus knocking and pinging. Fair guess, right?
Well much to my amazement, the engine still pings. Now it is much more gentle/subdued than it has ever been, and the ECU seems to correct it in short order--however that initial pinging remains and sounds like garbage. Fortunately though, once it pings, it doesn't seem to come back for a while. I guess this is as good as it gets.
The engine is also smoother than it has ever been, even that uneven bit of running it had at ~~1000 RPM has improved. The engine is quieter now, and some of the background whirring noises under the hood are more apparent.
Both the original plugs and the first set of replacement plugs (one heat range colder) showed signs are extreme overheating:
The ground electrode on the original plugs presented some shiny green and blue colors and were otherwise completely free of deposits.
The replacement plugs had some blue discoloration where the ground electrode weld meets the base of the plug (bottom of threads) and the ground electrode itself had a bright appearance.
I'll take a look at these cold plugs in a few hundred miles to see how they are doing.
I've considered just putting the original plugs back in the car and drive it until I destroy a piston. Honda's solution will probably be to install new pistons or perhaps strengthened pistons, neglecting to actually tune the engine like it is supposed to be.
Honda needs to wake up and address this problem NOW. I'm tired of regretting my purchase and I'm tired of feeling like I have to beg to have my car fixed. If I had bought a cheap car, I would be more tolerant of excessive spark knock. But this is a car that touts precision, yet it sounds like the engineers were hungover when they tuned this engine.
09-13-2007, 05:32 PM
#205
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Originally Posted by bionicjoggingsuit
I hear you and challenge anyone to go pick ANY new out there, and it will not ping like the TL-S type does. That is my entire point. $9,000 KIA basic transportion- no pinging. My friend's 1992 Honda Prelude with 389,000 miles on original motor- no pinging, my $38,000 TL-S type- constant pinging. That is what is wrong with the picture.
Most TL-S and RL cars aren't pinging. My TL-S pulls cleanly and strongly without a hint of engine ping/knock.
You seem to be implying that the problem exists with all of the cars due to some wide ranging design flaw. That isn't the case.
I think you're engine (e.g. heads, block deck height) was improperly machined and the elevated cylinder pressures that result from that are causing the problem.
The dealership should be able to test your max cylinder pressures and check them against the factory specs.
It still sucks and I hope you can get it resolved.
As I noted earlier, the last car I heard ping was my grandfather's 1969 350 Chevy Impala in the very early 1980s. I have never heard anything built after the very 1980s ping.
09-13-2007, 06:37 PM
#206
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This is my first post, so here I come out of lurking mode...
I have a 2004 TL that pings. From reading this (9 pages and counting!) thread, my 3-year old TL has (almost from the start) been pinging under the same conditions as some of the posters have more recently discovered on their 07 TL-S's.
It seems to be worse during hot weather (or perhaps I hear it more because I tend to drive with the windows down when it is dry and warm).
I have pulled what's left of my hair out trying to figure out how to fix this problem. I've taken it to two different dealerships (3 technicians in total) over the past 24 months and after their initial enthusiasm to fix it, all have resorted to the usual "From talking to the other techs, we've agreed that this is normal for a car with such a high compression ratio" and that I should just live with it.
One even suggested that I turn up the volume of my stereo since it bothered me so much!
My feeling is that they depend a lot (perhaps TOO much) on whether the computer is putting out an error code. In fact, one Tech said that without an error code, "obviously" nothing was wrong with the engine.
Bottom line: whether I use 94 octane or 89, the engine still pings when I go from steady speed to momentary acceleration or start going up a steep hill. I've gotten to the point where I am actually afraid of pressing down on the gas pedal too much!
Needless to say, driving the TL is no longer fun and I'm starting to rethink my loyalty to the Honda brand (*all* of the cars bought for the past couple of decades in my extended family have been either Hondas or Acuras)
I have a 2004 TL that pings. From reading this (9 pages and counting!) thread, my 3-year old TL has (almost from the start) been pinging under the same conditions as some of the posters have more recently discovered on their 07 TL-S's.
It seems to be worse during hot weather (or perhaps I hear it more because I tend to drive with the windows down when it is dry and warm).
I have pulled what's left of my hair out trying to figure out how to fix this problem. I've taken it to two different dealerships (3 technicians in total) over the past 24 months and after their initial enthusiasm to fix it, all have resorted to the usual "From talking to the other techs, we've agreed that this is normal for a car with such a high compression ratio" and that I should just live with it.
One even suggested that I turn up the volume of my stereo since it bothered me so much!
My feeling is that they depend a lot (perhaps TOO much) on whether the computer is putting out an error code. In fact, one Tech said that without an error code, "obviously" nothing was wrong with the engine.
Bottom line: whether I use 94 octane or 89, the engine still pings when I go from steady speed to momentary acceleration or start going up a steep hill. I've gotten to the point where I am actually afraid of pressing down on the gas pedal too much!
Needless to say, driving the TL is no longer fun and I'm starting to rethink my loyalty to the Honda brand (*all* of the cars bought for the past couple of decades in my extended family have been either Hondas or Acuras)
09-13-2007, 06:45 PM
#207
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Originally Posted by hmjaffer
This is my first post, so here I come out of lurking mode...
I have a 2004 TL that pings. From reading this (9 pages and counting!) thread, my 3-year old TL has (almost from the start) been pinging under the same conditions as some of the posters have more recently discovered on their 07 TL-S's.
It seems to be worse during hot weather (or perhaps I hear it more because I tend to drive with the windows down when it is dry and warm).
I have pulled what's left of my hair out trying to figure out how to fix this problem. I've taken it to two different dealerships (3 technicians in total) over the past 24 months and after their initial enthusiasm to fix it, all have resorted to the usual "From talking to the other techs, we've agreed that this is normal for a car with such a high compression ratio" and that I should just live with it.
One even suggested that I turn up the volume of my stereo since it bothered me so much!
My feeling is that they depend a lot (perhaps TOO much) on whether the computer is putting out an error code. In fact, one Tech said that without an error code, "obviously" nothing was wrong with the engine.
Bottom line: whether I use 94 octane or 89, the engine still pings when I go from steady speed to momentary acceleration or start going up a steep hill. I've gotten to the point where I am actually afraid of pressing down on the gas pedal too much!
Needless to say, driving the TL is no longer fun and I'm starting to rethink my loyalty to the Honda brand (*all* of the cars bought for the past couple of decades in my extended family have been either Hondas or Acuras)
I have a 2004 TL that pings. From reading this (9 pages and counting!) thread, my 3-year old TL has (almost from the start) been pinging under the same conditions as some of the posters have more recently discovered on their 07 TL-S's.
It seems to be worse during hot weather (or perhaps I hear it more because I tend to drive with the windows down when it is dry and warm).
I have pulled what's left of my hair out trying to figure out how to fix this problem. I've taken it to two different dealerships (3 technicians in total) over the past 24 months and after their initial enthusiasm to fix it, all have resorted to the usual "From talking to the other techs, we've agreed that this is normal for a car with such a high compression ratio" and that I should just live with it.
One even suggested that I turn up the volume of my stereo since it bothered me so much!
My feeling is that they depend a lot (perhaps TOO much) on whether the computer is putting out an error code. In fact, one Tech said that without an error code, "obviously" nothing was wrong with the engine.
Bottom line: whether I use 94 octane or 89, the engine still pings when I go from steady speed to momentary acceleration or start going up a steep hill. I've gotten to the point where I am actually afraid of pressing down on the gas pedal too much!
Needless to say, driving the TL is no longer fun and I'm starting to rethink my loyalty to the Honda brand (*all* of the cars bought for the past couple of decades in my extended family have been either Hondas or Acuras)
09-13-2007, 07:54 PM
#208
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Originally Posted by hmjaffer
Forgot to mention: I have a 5AT (not a manual) and I've noticed that when I use sport-shift mode, it pings a lot more (in full auto mode, the tranny first downshifts and the resulting roar of the engine seems to drown out any pinging noises).
I guess Honda should be have specified an additional 1/2 liter of displacement and a 10.5:1 CR.
This is a good example of why "horsepower per liter" bragging rights can be stupid for the street.
An GM LS3 V8 will pound out 430+ HP all day long without so much as a whimper, yet people laugh because it "only" makes 69.3 HP per liter.
No engineer would intentionally design an engine that pings, since it will dramatically shorten engine life. Piston top "burn-thru" is one of the more common results. The pinging would just drive me nuts...The most amazing thing is that the knock sensors/ECU are incapable of stopping it by cutting back on the timing.
I had two V6 Accords ('04 Auto and '06 6 speed). Both had a 10:1 CR and ran fine on 87 octane...I use Shell "V Power" (93 octane) in this TL-S.
09-15-2007, 02:04 AM
#209
Team Owner
Just a thought, I had similar problems in my 06 and by removing the IAT sensor from the manifold and placing it in a cooler place took care of my problems. I'm used to dealing with mass air cars and forgot how much more weight is put on the input of the IAT sensor on these speed density cars.
09-15-2007, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by I hate cars
Just a thought, I had similar problems in my 06 and by removing the IAT sensor from the manifold and placing it in a cooler place took care of my problems. I'm used to dealing with mass air cars and forgot how much more weight is put on the input of the IAT sensor on these speed density cars.
Anyway, it worked for you. I'd be interested in learning exactly why.
09-15-2007, 05:35 PM
#211
Team Owner
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
I would have thought that colder air temp readings might increase the timing advance, thereby increasing (rather than decreasing) "pinging." Then again, I suppose it might also yield a slightly richer A/F ratio.
Anyway, it worked for you. I'd be interested in learning exactly why.
Anyway, it worked for you. I'd be interested in learning exactly why.
My WOT A/F stayed perfectly steady ~12.7 and at 6K richened to 11.0 and again stayed steady until the cut off at 7,100rpm. This seems a little richer than most.
I drove it normal through the gears like I normally do on the street and it was right around 14.7 the whole time.
09-17-2007, 01:32 PM
#212
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I have always thought that the pinging is in someway connected to the outside temperature: whenever it is hot here, my TL pings more; and when cooler outside, it pings less. So messing around with the location of IAT sensor (whatever that is!) may point to what's needed to finding a fix for this issue. 
Please keep us updated. Perhaps you could try it on a hot day and see if there is an improvement when you move the location of IAT sensor between runs on the same day/same gas?
Please keep us updated. Perhaps you could try it on a hot day and see if there is an improvement when you move the location of IAT sensor between runs on the same day/same gas?
09-22-2007, 09:57 AM
#213
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Originally Posted by hmjaffer
I have always thought that the pinging is in someway connected to the outside temperature: whenever it is hot here, my TL pings more; and when cooler outside, it pings less. So messing around with the location of IAT sensor (whatever that is!) may point to what's needed to finding a fix for this issue.
Please keep us updated. Perhaps you could try it on a hot day and see if there is an improvement when you move the location of IAT sensor between runs on the same day/same gas?
Please keep us updated. Perhaps you could try it on a hot day and see if there is an improvement when you move the location of IAT sensor between runs on the same day/same gas?
09-22-2007, 09:52 PM
#214
2010 TL SH-AWD
Add me to the "Ping" pong list. My new TL-S didn't ping when I first brought it home. Now, 4k miles later, it is constantly pinging only around 2-3k rpm. Im getting ready to ditch this car. This will be my last Acura. Even my women's BMW 535 twin turbo did not even ping one bit using 87octane gas(she drives like a granny no need to spend extra on 93) and this is when I get to drive it, I really made use of those twins.
09-23-2007, 11:24 AM
#215
S power, I've got to admit, since owning my TL-S, I've been thinking long and hard about getting rid of it and I've not even had it a year yet. I've been a big supported of Honda and this is my 4th Acura and I'm ready to see what else is out there.
Between this engine ping, the clunk in the suspension, the rear deck rattle and the 3rd gear issue (which honestly bothers me the most), I don't really have the time to keep brining my car in to get these things looked at. I like what the car has to offer, but I don't like all the little annoyances (and engine ping really isn't a little thing).
Between this engine ping, the clunk in the suspension, the rear deck rattle and the 3rd gear issue (which honestly bothers me the most), I don't really have the time to keep brining my car in to get these things looked at. I like what the car has to offer, but I don't like all the little annoyances (and engine ping really isn't a little thing).
09-23-2007, 12:03 PM
#216
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Originally Posted by Handruin
S power, I've got to admit, since owning my TL-S, I've been thinking long and hard about getting rid of it and I've not even had it a year yet. I've been a big supported of Honda and this is my 4th Acura and I'm ready to see what else is out there.
Between this engine ping, the clunk in the suspension, the rear deck rattle and the 3rd gear issue (which honestly bothers me the most), I don't really have the time to keep brining my car in to get these things looked at. I like what the car has to offer, but I don't like all the little annoyances (and engine ping really isn't a little thing).
Between this engine ping, the clunk in the suspension, the rear deck rattle and the 3rd gear issue (which honestly bothers me the most), I don't really have the time to keep brining my car in to get these things looked at. I like what the car has to offer, but I don't like all the little annoyances (and engine ping really isn't a little thing).
09-23-2007, 01:18 PM
#217
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'07 TL-S; 5AT; ~6,000 Miles.
Heard today for the first time what I would describe as Valve Chatter. This occured at ~4,000 rpm in 2nd gear (Sport Shift).
I notice this thread went very quickly from "Valve Chatter" to "Pinging/Knocking".
What I heard did not sound or "feel" like pinging/knocking. It did sound like the kind of chatter that could be something like a loose heat sheild.
Has it been definitetly determined that the "Chatter" noise is actully pinging?
I've read the 1st page and the last 2 pages of this thread so far (I'll read the rest when I can). Has anyone had ANY success in getting the "Chatter" noise solved via Acura?
Heard today for the first time what I would describe as Valve Chatter. This occured at ~4,000 rpm in 2nd gear (Sport Shift).
I notice this thread went very quickly from "Valve Chatter" to "Pinging/Knocking".
What I heard did not sound or "feel" like pinging/knocking. It did sound like the kind of chatter that could be something like a loose heat sheild.
Has it been definitetly determined that the "Chatter" noise is actully pinging?
I've read the 1st page and the last 2 pages of this thread so far (I'll read the rest when I can). Has anyone had ANY success in getting the "Chatter" noise solved via Acura?
09-23-2007, 01:39 PM
#218
Team Owner
I'm curious as to what is changing. Most of these cars did not ping off the lot but started ~3K later. It's too early for it to be carbon deposits and it didn't do it off the lot so it's not mechanical tolerance stackup like too high compression.
I would like to see someone with a pinging "S" remove the IAT sensor like I did to see if it makes a difference.
I would like to see someone with a pinging "S" remove the IAT sensor like I did to see if it makes a difference.
09-23-2007, 01:41 PM
#219
Team Owner
Originally Posted by Bearcat94
'07 TL-S; 5AT; ~6,000 Miles.
Heard today for the first time what I would describe as Valve Chatter. This occured at ~4,000 rpm in 2nd gear (Sport Shift).
I notice this thread went very quickly from "Valve Chatter" to "Pinging/Knocking".
What I heard did not sound or "feel" like pinging/knocking. It did sound like the kind of chatter that could be something like a loose heat sheild.
Has it been definitetly determined that the "Chatter" noise is actully pinging?
I've read the 1st page and the last 2 pages of this thread so far (I'll read the rest when I can). Has anyone had ANY success in getting the "Chatter" noise solved via Acura?
Heard today for the first time what I would describe as Valve Chatter. This occured at ~4,000 rpm in 2nd gear (Sport Shift).
I notice this thread went very quickly from "Valve Chatter" to "Pinging/Knocking".
What I heard did not sound or "feel" like pinging/knocking. It did sound like the kind of chatter that could be something like a loose heat sheild.
Has it been definitetly determined that the "Chatter" noise is actully pinging?
I've read the 1st page and the last 2 pages of this thread so far (I'll read the rest when I can). Has anyone had ANY success in getting the "Chatter" noise solved via Acura?
09-23-2007, 01:52 PM
#220
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Originally Posted by Bearcat94
'07 TL-S; 5AT; ~6,000 Miles.
Heard today for the first time what I would describe as Valve Chatter. This occured at ~4,000 rpm in 2nd gear (Sport Shift).
I notice this thread went very quickly from "Valve Chatter" to "Pinging/Knocking".
What I heard did not sound or "feel" like pinging/knocking. It did sound like the kind of chatter that could be something like a loose heat sheild.
Has it been definitetly determined that the "Chatter" noise is actully pinging?
I've read the 1st page and the last 2 pages of this thread so far (I'll read the rest when I can). Has anyone had ANY success in getting the "Chatter" noise solved via Acura?
Heard today for the first time what I would describe as Valve Chatter. This occured at ~4,000 rpm in 2nd gear (Sport Shift).
I notice this thread went very quickly from "Valve Chatter" to "Pinging/Knocking".
What I heard did not sound or "feel" like pinging/knocking. It did sound like the kind of chatter that could be something like a loose heat sheild.
Has it been definitetly determined that the "Chatter" noise is actully pinging?
I've read the 1st page and the last 2 pages of this thread so far (I'll read the rest when I can). Has anyone had ANY success in getting the "Chatter" noise solved via Acura?
09-23-2007, 02:07 PM
#221
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Originally Posted by I hate cars
Some have hooked it up to a scanner and watched the timing being pulled by the computer when it makes the noise. I would think a heatshield wouldn't trigger the knock sensor although I guess it's possible. Still haven't seen anyone put 100 octane to see if it goes away. That would determine once and for all it's real knock.
I can get Race Gas where I normally purchase fuel (it's either 100 or 104 Octane, not sure), but it's $4.99 per gallon.
This may have been going on for some time (no idea how long), but today I had all the accessories off and heard it for the first time.
I do like your idea of the IAT. Also coincidentally, it's a bit warmer today. From the time I bought the car temps here were very high 80's to low 100's. Last week, FINALLY, things cooled off to the low 80's and low 70's overnight. Today we are back into high 80's/low 90's.
Regardless, I am still not *totally* convinced this is Knock/Ping as opposed to Valve Clearance/Valve Adjustment.
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
What fuel brand and octane rating are you running?
93 Octane only since day one (we don't have 91 here). Primarily Texaco (say, 80% - 90%), but not exclusively. Some Shell, some BP.
May be only a coincidence, but I did fill up from "E" - 18 miles left on the "RANGE" - yesterday. That's the lowest the fuel level has ever been. I do understand that "E" = Approx 3 gal left in the fuel system.
09-23-2007, 02:11 PM
#222
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Originally Posted by Bearcat94
I would agree, a clattering/vibrating heat sheild wouldn't initiate the ECU to alter timing. But a vibrating/clattering heat sheild is a good way to dexcribe what I heard.
I can get Race Gas where I normally purchase fuel (it's either 100 or 104 Octane, not sure), but it's $4+ per gallon.
This may have been going on for some time (no idea how long), but today I had all the accessories off and heard it for the first time.
I do like your idea of the IAT. Also coincidentally, it's a bit warmer today. From the time I bought the car temps here were very high 80's to low 100's. Last week, FINALLY, things cooled off to the low 80's and low 70's overnight. Today we are back into high 80's/low 90's.
93 Octane only since day one (we don't have 91 here). Primarily Texaco (say, 80% - 90%), but not exclusively. Some Shell, some BP.
May be only a coincidence, but I did fill up from "E" - 18 miles left on the "RANGE" - yesterday. That's the lowest the fuel level has ever been. I do understand that "E" = Approx 3 gal left in the fuel system.
I can get Race Gas where I normally purchase fuel (it's either 100 or 104 Octane, not sure), but it's $4+ per gallon.
This may have been going on for some time (no idea how long), but today I had all the accessories off and heard it for the first time.
I do like your idea of the IAT. Also coincidentally, it's a bit warmer today. From the time I bought the car temps here were very high 80's to low 100's. Last week, FINALLY, things cooled off to the low 80's and low 70's overnight. Today we are back into high 80's/low 90's.
93 Octane only since day one (we don't have 91 here). Primarily Texaco (say, 80% - 90%), but not exclusively. Some Shell, some BP.
May be only a coincidence, but I did fill up from "E" - 18 miles left on the "RANGE" - yesterday. That's the lowest the fuel level has ever been. I do understand that "E" = Approx 3 gal left in the fuel system.
SOME gas stations aren't on the up and up and fill the "premium" holding tanks with the regular or mid grade stuff.
I've been running Shell V-Power exclusively in mine since day one. That's not to say that it won't ping...
A lot of people are having this problem and Acura clearly don't give a rat's a**. I haven't yet received my customer survey from Acura, but plan on noting i my survey that other are experiencing the problem.
09-23-2007, 11:43 PM
#223
2010 TL SH-AWD
I have been using shell 93 from day 1. Every since it started pinging, i have tried different company just to see if its the shell thats bad, but nope, ping still there. I'm pretty sure it is not a rattle. It sound like an old Kia with a kazillion miles on it, trying to go up a hill. During the pinging, I would let go of the gas and tap it real quick and it will ping once i hit the gas again.
Sounds sh!tty to me, like an old cheap ass car!
Sounds sh!tty to me, like an old cheap ass car!
09-24-2007, 08:30 AM
#224
Pro
I have received word that a software fix is being worked on and should be ready in the coming weeks. Enough complaints have been logged and the engineers have identified the problems. Apparently the timing map is just totally screwed, because the update is supposed to also increase the output and response of the engine by some margin as well. To what extent, I don't know.
It is my understanding that all cars are affected, however some local grades of gasoline make the engine especially fickle. It could also be that some owners can simply hear better than others or are able to identify the spark knock noise from the rest of the road/engine ruckus more readily.
While I certainly don't tout that my ears are bionic, I am an somewhat of an audiophile and have trained my ears to perceive the smallest differences between different electronic components. I'm sure that discipline has helped me to identify the gross spark knock occurring in front of the firewall in my car.
It is my understanding that all cars are affected, however some local grades of gasoline make the engine especially fickle. It could also be that some owners can simply hear better than others or are able to identify the spark knock noise from the rest of the road/engine ruckus more readily.
While I certainly don't tout that my ears are bionic, I am an somewhat of an audiophile and have trained my ears to perceive the smallest differences between different electronic components. I'm sure that discipline has helped me to identify the gross spark knock occurring in front of the firewall in my car.
09-24-2007, 08:38 AM
#225
That sounds like admittance to a problem...hopefully the life of my engine hasn't been significantly reduced in the past 19K miles. Please keep us posted as you learn more on this software fix. I hope it's a heck of a lot better than their manual transmission fluid fix...which didn't solve the problem for me.
09-24-2007, 02:24 PM
#226
Originally Posted by junktionfet
I have received word that a software fix is being worked on and should be ready in the coming weeks. Enough complaints have been logged and the engineers have identified the problems. Apparently the timing map is just totally screwed, because the update is supposed to also increase the output and response of the engine by some margin as well. To what extent, I don't know.
It is my understanding that all cars are affected, however some local grades of gasoline make the engine especially fickle. It could also be that some owners can simply hear better than others or are able to identify the spark knock noise from the rest of the road/engine ruckus more readily.
While I certainly don't tout that my ears are bionic, I am an somewhat of an audiophile and have trained my ears to perceive the smallest differences between different electronic components. I'm sure that discipline has helped me to identify the gross spark knock occurring in front of the firewall in my car.
It is my understanding that all cars are affected, however some local grades of gasoline make the engine especially fickle. It could also be that some owners can simply hear better than others or are able to identify the spark knock noise from the rest of the road/engine ruckus more readily.
While I certainly don't tout that my ears are bionic, I am an somewhat of an audiophile and have trained my ears to perceive the smallest differences between different electronic components. I'm sure that discipline has helped me to identify the gross spark knock occurring in front of the firewall in my car.
This would make since. We do not have anything higher than 93 octane here but I did fill up and put Lucas Octane Booster in and the "ping" was not as loud as it has been. When that tank ran out it went back to normal volume. I hope the fix comes soon.
09-24-2007, 02:36 PM
#227
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Originally Posted by junktionfet
I have received word that a software fix is being worked on and should be ready in the coming weeks...
Will it be a recall or a TSB (performed only at customer request)?
09-26-2007, 05:00 PM
#229
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Originally Posted by joelsaxton
Seems more likely a TSB but who knows. Anyone found out a time frame?
I'm still awaiting his reply.
He claims that "ALL" vehicles (TL Type S) are impacted. That would suggest a recall, particularly since failing to fix it could end up costing Honda a bundle in engine replacements.
09-26-2007, 10:43 PM
#230
Pro
Originally Posted by joelsaxton
Seems more likely a TSB but who knows. Anyone found out a time frame?
09-27-2007, 06:02 AM
#231
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Originally Posted by junktionfet
I'm itching to find out more as well. That bit of news was certainly welcome considering my previous experience, so I was very happy. As I learn more I will report of course. If anyone else has more data, let us know.
09-27-2007, 03:15 PM
#232
I've had my car for a little over two months and not heard valve chatter, but I will not listen more closely to see if my engine does the same.
harddrivin1le - Keep us posted.
harddrivin1le - Keep us posted.
09-27-2007, 04:10 PM
#233
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Originally Posted by cbptls
I've had my car for a little over two months and not heard valve chatter, but I will not listen more closely to see if my engine does the same.
harddrivin1le - Keep us posted.
harddrivin1le - Keep us posted.
2) Why would I keep you posted? My engine isn't experiencing this problem. This guy's is:
Originally Posted by junktionfet
I have received word that a software fix is being worked on and should be ready in the coming weeks. Enough complaints have been logged and the engineers have identified the problems. Apparently the timing map is just totally screwed, because the update is supposed to also increase the output and response of the engine by some margin as well. To what extent, I don't know.
It is my understanding that all cars are affected, however some local grades of gasoline make the engine especially fickle. It could also be that some owners can simply hear better than others or are able to identify the spark knock noise from the rest of the road/engine ruckus more readily.
While I certainly don't tout that my ears are bionic, I am an somewhat of an audiophile and have trained my ears to perceive the smallest differences between different electronic components. I'm sure that discipline has helped me to identify the gross spark knock occurring in front of the firewall in my car.
It is my understanding that all cars are affected, however some local grades of gasoline make the engine especially fickle. It could also be that some owners can simply hear better than others or are able to identify the spark knock noise from the rest of the road/engine ruckus more readily.
While I certainly don't tout that my ears are bionic, I am an somewhat of an audiophile and have trained my ears to perceive the smallest differences between different electronic components. I'm sure that discipline has helped me to identify the gross spark knock occurring in front of the firewall in my car.
09-27-2007, 06:19 PM
#234
Team Owner
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
1) "Valve chatter" is a misnomer; "pre-detonation" is the correct term. This problem has nothing whatsoever to do with the valves.
2) Why would I keep you posted? My engine isn't experiencing this problem. This guy's is:
All I've done is ask him for more information, which he hasn't yet provided. Specifically, I'd like to know the source of his information.
2) Why would I keep you posted? My engine isn't experiencing this problem. This guy's is:
All I've done is ask him for more information, which he hasn't yet provided. Specifically, I'd like to know the source of his information.
09-27-2007, 07:40 PM
#235
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Originally Posted by cbptls
I've had my car for a little over two months and not heard valve chatter, but I will not listen more closely to see if my engine does the same.
harddrivin1le - Keep us posted.
harddrivin1le - Keep us posted.
09-27-2007, 08:23 PM
#236
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New software
My dealer requested that my car be brought in for the Acura Field Rep, who flew in from California, to test drive the car for himself. I did so and it no longer pings / pre-detonates / sputters / chatters / etc.
Here is what I was told was done to my car:
1. A chemical solvent was introduced into the heads to clean any carbon accumulation.
2. The factory software was erased and reloaded.
3. The spark plugs were replaced because the chemical solvent fouled them.
Now, I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy so here is my opinion and only that- my opinion:
I believe that the valves / heads probably did need to be cleaned because of what was going on- that makes sense. The field rep brought his own software with him. They loaded THAT software, not what was already on hand at the dealership. The car has not pinged since, after 150 miles of my normal driving habits.
And here is what is different (besides not pinging): The car pulls a lot harder. It has a much more dramatic increase in acceleration when the second cam profile comes on. The powerband is very different from what we started with. Before it felt like a linear, controlled wheezing, now the power hits in the middle and comes on harder. The car seems to breathe when you open it up. I kind of noticed it when I went to pass a slow coffee sipper on the way to work; I think I sucked some of the paint off of his driver side mirror when I went past him! The car feels like it has A LOT more power- like 20 more horsepower- like the 20 more horsepower that Acura needs to even the spec sheet with the G35-S.
Bottom line- I think I may have the new version of software, remapped and ping free. I may be beta testing for Acura. They do read this thread so keep posting.
Later
Here is what I was told was done to my car:
1. A chemical solvent was introduced into the heads to clean any carbon accumulation.
2. The factory software was erased and reloaded.
3. The spark plugs were replaced because the chemical solvent fouled them.
Now, I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy so here is my opinion and only that- my opinion:
I believe that the valves / heads probably did need to be cleaned because of what was going on- that makes sense. The field rep brought his own software with him. They loaded THAT software, not what was already on hand at the dealership. The car has not pinged since, after 150 miles of my normal driving habits.
And here is what is different (besides not pinging): The car pulls a lot harder. It has a much more dramatic increase in acceleration when the second cam profile comes on. The powerband is very different from what we started with. Before it felt like a linear, controlled wheezing, now the power hits in the middle and comes on harder. The car seems to breathe when you open it up. I kind of noticed it when I went to pass a slow coffee sipper on the way to work; I think I sucked some of the paint off of his driver side mirror when I went past him! The car feels like it has A LOT more power- like 20 more horsepower- like the 20 more horsepower that Acura needs to even the spec sheet with the G35-S.
Bottom line- I think I may have the new version of software, remapped and ping free. I may be beta testing for Acura. They do read this thread so keep posting.
Later
09-27-2007, 08:48 PM
#238
Enjoying my TL-S
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Originally Posted by bionicjoggingsuit
My dealer requested that my car be brought in for the Acura Field Rep, who flew in from California, to test drive the car for himself. I did so and it no longer pings / pre-detonates / sputters / chatters / etc.
Here is what I was told was done to my car:
1. A chemical solvent was introduced into the heads to clean any carbon accumulation.
2. The factory software was erased and reloaded.
3. The spark plugs were replaced because the chemical solvent fouled them.
Now, I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy so here is my opinion and only that- my opinion:
I believe that the valves / heads probably did need to be cleaned because of what was going on- that makes sense. The field rep brought his own software with him. They loaded THAT software, not what was already on hand at the dealership. The car has not pinged since, after 150 miles of my normal driving habits.
And here is what is different (besides not pinging): The car pulls a lot harder. It has a much more dramatic increase in acceleration when the second cam profile comes on. The powerband is very different from what we started with. Before it felt like a linear, controlled wheezing, now the power hits in the middle and comes on harder. The car seems to breathe when you open it up. I kind of noticed it when I went to pass a slow coffee sipper on the way to work; I think I sucked some of the paint off of his driver side mirror when I went past him! The car feels like it has A LOT more power- like 20 more horsepower- like the 20 more horsepower that Acura needs to even the spec sheet with the G35-S.
Bottom line- I think I may have the new version of software, remapped and ping free. I may be beta testing for Acura. They do read this thread so keep posting.
Later
Here is what I was told was done to my car:
1. A chemical solvent was introduced into the heads to clean any carbon accumulation.
2. The factory software was erased and reloaded.
3. The spark plugs were replaced because the chemical solvent fouled them.
Now, I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy so here is my opinion and only that- my opinion:
I believe that the valves / heads probably did need to be cleaned because of what was going on- that makes sense. The field rep brought his own software with him. They loaded THAT software, not what was already on hand at the dealership. The car has not pinged since, after 150 miles of my normal driving habits.
And here is what is different (besides not pinging): The car pulls a lot harder. It has a much more dramatic increase in acceleration when the second cam profile comes on. The powerband is very different from what we started with. Before it felt like a linear, controlled wheezing, now the power hits in the middle and comes on harder. The car seems to breathe when you open it up. I kind of noticed it when I went to pass a slow coffee sipper on the way to work; I think I sucked some of the paint off of his driver side mirror when I went past him! The car feels like it has A LOT more power- like 20 more horsepower- like the 20 more horsepower that Acura needs to even the spec sheet with the G35-S.
Bottom line- I think I may have the new version of software, remapped and ping free. I may be beta testing for Acura. They do read this thread so keep posting.
Later
Sounds fantastic. My car doesn't ping, but I have <3,000 miles. But I sure don't feel VTEC very much. Does anyoned know if the reflash be available to non pinging cars?
And to whoever said a rattling heatshield can't fool a knock sensor is incorrect. I had that problem when I was tuning my STi.
09-27-2007, 11:14 PM
#239
Pro
Originally Posted by bionicjoggingsuit
My dealer requested that my car be brought in for the Acura Field Rep, who flew in from California, to test drive the car for himself. I did so and it no longer pings / pre-detonates / sputters / chatters / etc.
Here is what I was told was done to my car:
1. A chemical solvent was introduced into the heads to clean any carbon accumulation.
2. The factory software was erased and reloaded.
3. The spark plugs were replaced because the chemical solvent fouled them.
Now, I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy so here is my opinion and only that- my opinion:
I believe that the valves / heads probably did need to be cleaned because of what was going on- that makes sense. The field rep brought his own software with him. They loaded THAT software, not what was already on hand at the dealership. The car has not pinged since, after 150 miles of my normal driving habits.
And here is what is different (besides not pinging): The car pulls a lot harder. It has a much more dramatic increase in acceleration when the second cam profile comes on. The powerband is very different from what we started with. Before it felt like a linear, controlled wheezing, now the power hits in the middle and comes on harder. The car seems to breathe when you open it up. I kind of noticed it when I went to pass a slow coffee sipper on the way to work; I think I sucked some of the paint off of his driver side mirror when I went past him! The car feels like it has A LOT more power- like 20 more horsepower- like the 20 more horsepower that Acura needs to even the spec sheet with the G35-S.
Bottom line- I think I may have the new version of software, remapped and ping free. I may be beta testing for Acura. They do read this thread so keep posting.
Later
Here is what I was told was done to my car:
1. A chemical solvent was introduced into the heads to clean any carbon accumulation.
2. The factory software was erased and reloaded.
3. The spark plugs were replaced because the chemical solvent fouled them.
Now, I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy so here is my opinion and only that- my opinion:
I believe that the valves / heads probably did need to be cleaned because of what was going on- that makes sense. The field rep brought his own software with him. They loaded THAT software, not what was already on hand at the dealership. The car has not pinged since, after 150 miles of my normal driving habits.
And here is what is different (besides not pinging): The car pulls a lot harder. It has a much more dramatic increase in acceleration when the second cam profile comes on. The powerband is very different from what we started with. Before it felt like a linear, controlled wheezing, now the power hits in the middle and comes on harder. The car seems to breathe when you open it up. I kind of noticed it when I went to pass a slow coffee sipper on the way to work; I think I sucked some of the paint off of his driver side mirror when I went past him! The car feels like it has A LOT more power- like 20 more horsepower- like the 20 more horsepower that Acura needs to even the spec sheet with the G35-S.
Bottom line- I think I may have the new version of software, remapped and ping free. I may be beta testing for Acura. They do read this thread so keep posting.
Later
09-28-2007, 07:34 AM
#240
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nc audiophile?
thanks for the heads up on the software update NC.
tell me more about your "ears" training.
mark levinson is a good friend of mine and i have some outstanding ears as well.
tell me more about your "ears" training.
mark levinson is a good friend of mine and i have some outstanding ears as well.