UR Crank Pulley - Concern
08-21-2008, 08:26 PM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
UR Crank Pulley - Concern
As of last week, I installed the UR Crank Pulley via Acura of Lynnwood. Now, since its been on for a while, I've started to push a bit harder and harder...and harder - it pulls noticeably harder. But even prior to this, I noticed a few hesitations in the rpms. For example, around 2800 and 3000, the rpms will go from 28 to 30, then 28 again THEN shift down a gear; this is all happening while going up a hill (this happens all within a second). Now, I'm HOPING that it's just because the car isn't used to the lighter crank pulley! But I figured I'd ask all you geniuses as a side precaution. SO...should i be worried about ne thing? It's the stock size pulley and i didn't replace the belt when I had it installed (should have though 
) Is anyone else having similar issues or had any issues I should be looking out for?
Thanks all,
Eric
) Is anyone else having similar issues or had any issues I should be looking out for?Thanks all,
Eric
08-21-2008, 08:36 PM
#3
Safety Car
Thread Starter
^ yeah i've heard soem of that stuff too, but the dealership told me that the motors were all internally balanced? i've heard that around from a few people...hope they weren't ALL wrong -_-
08-21-2008, 09:31 PM
#4
Safety Car
Grade Logic discussion - A(click here)
Grade Logic discussion - B(click here)
08-21-2008, 09:43 PM
#5
Ahem
that is an unfounded claim. I have explained this before and you can search under my name under different forums (2nd and 3rd gen tl) but here is some info from ur's website:
4) "is my crank pulley a harmonic/torsional/vibration damper or a harmonic balancer?"
people are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some domestic v6 & v8 engines. "harmonic balancer" is a term used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper. None of the applications we offer use a counterweight as part of the pulley, as these engines are all internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley making them look similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the oem pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress noise from the engine accessories; the a/c compressor, p/s pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call nvh (noise vibration & harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to realize in these applications, the elastomer is inadequate in size and durability to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from acura/honda b & d series engines, nissan altima, 1.8l eclipse, 2.3l fords, chrysler 2.2l's, and 1.8l vw's just to mention a few. Most owners who have installed our pulleys notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is result of replacing the heavy crank pulley with our crank pulley. Nvh is variable and unique to every car. Nvh will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of oem intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of nvh can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement and frequencies of high amplitude. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as shorter stroke length, smaller displacement, piston dwell time, piston pin off-set, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur. More importantly the actual tune of the engine, espcially with modified vheciles, is the biggest factor in potential engine damage. Poor tuning leads to detonation which is an engine killer that no damper can stop.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about solid crank pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand our crank pulleys better.
5) "will unorthodox racing lightened pulleys cause an oil pump failure?"
urban myths have been floating around about honda oil pumps failing by using an unorthodox racing crank pulley/s. The real fact is that these oem pumps have been failing with and without the use of our pulleys and before our crank pulley/s were available on the market. Also note that these failures are few and far in between.
The acura/honda oil pumps are excellent units, but there are a number of reasons for the failures that do occur.
Most of the oil pump failures have been in acura/honda b series 1.6/1.8l applications, chrsyler srt4, mazda 1.6/1.8l applications have seen a few failures, as well as the new ford focus zetec in race vehicles. Again, note that on all these applications the oil pump failures have occurred on engines not even using our pulley, they were using the stock crank pulley.
These pump failures can be linked to the following causes. These causes may act individually or in combination to cause the actual failures:
The gears used in many pumps including those in the honda b series engines and mazda miata engines are of a low-cost powdered metal composition. The factory uses this metal because of its acceptable cost-to-strength ratio. The problem is, these parts are not always deburred properly from the factory and when pushed to their limits can and do fail.
Many times additional stress is added to the oil pump by using oil thicker than what is specified by the manufacturer. The oil pump and bearing clearances were not designed from the factory to push oil of higher viscosities. This extra stress on the gears, combined with the above mentioned poor deburring process, can attribute to oil pump failure or engine failure.
Another contributing factor to oil pump failures is the weak cast backing plate of the b16/b18 oil pumps. Simple inspection shows that when compared to an h22 oil pump, a screw is not present in a critical location of the plate in the b series pumps. Compound this with the use of a higher viscosity motor oil and poorly deburred pump components and you have the ingredients for an oil pump failure.
This issue, specific to the mazda 1.6/1.8l engines, involves the flex of the crankshaft and the lower half of the engine due to the additional stress of a forced induction system (such as a turbo or supercharger). The additional stress produced by forced induction causes flexing of both the block and the crankshaft between the front main bearing and the oil pump. This can also contribute to oil pump failure. Early miatas were notorious for having crankshaft problems and later models suffered from problems as power is increased significantly.
Lastly, any failure inside a motor, related to aging components or a poor engine rebuild, can cause the oil pump to fail. Any particles passing through an oil pump design such as that used in the honda b series engines will cause damage or failure.
Remember that oil pump failures happen regularly on engines using a factory crank pulley. To help combat these failures, a few steps should be taken to help prolong the life of your oil pump and engine:
Unless building a race motor with race clearances in mind, you should always use an oil viscosity matching, or as close to the factory recommendations as possible.
If using a factory oil pump, always have your oil pump components deburred properly. It is recommended you have a competent engine rebuilder handle this.
For those who run dedicated / extreme race vehicles we recommend using an external wet or dry sump oiling system. These systems are designed for the heavy abuse a race engine receives on the track. Remember, the stock oiling systems were designed for factory horsepower levels and can only handle a certain amount of power increase over that level.
Lastly and most obvious, have a competent, trusted machine or performance shop rebuild your precious motor. It only takes one simple mistake to turn a costly engine rebuild into a doorstop.
If you have any other questions about this subject please don't hesitate to give us a call or drop us an e-mail. We take great pride in the craftsmanship of our products and are constantly striving to provide the highest quality products available to you, our customers.
6) "will these pulleys cause premature engine bearing wear?"
this is a fear many prospective owners have and is a valid concern since we are dealing directly with the rotating assembly. Fortunately it is another urban myth with no basis in fact. The fact is our pulleys have the opposite effect on engine bearings. The combination of tight tolerances, precise quality control, perfect balance, and dramatic weight loss versus the stock pulleys reduces stress loads on your engine, extending the service life of your engine. Engine bearing problems are purely associated to poor engine maintenance, use of heavier than factory recommended oils, improper engine building practices (which includes poor balancing), excessively revving of engines when they are cold, and owners expecting their factory oil pumps to handle engine power outputs beyond 3, 4, even 5+ times the stock power levels.
4) "is my crank pulley a harmonic/torsional/vibration damper or a harmonic balancer?"
people are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some domestic v6 & v8 engines. "harmonic balancer" is a term used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper. None of the applications we offer use a counterweight as part of the pulley, as these engines are all internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley making them look similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the oem pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress noise from the engine accessories; the a/c compressor, p/s pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call nvh (noise vibration & harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to realize in these applications, the elastomer is inadequate in size and durability to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from acura/honda b & d series engines, nissan altima, 1.8l eclipse, 2.3l fords, chrysler 2.2l's, and 1.8l vw's just to mention a few. Most owners who have installed our pulleys notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is result of replacing the heavy crank pulley with our crank pulley. Nvh is variable and unique to every car. Nvh will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of oem intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of nvh can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement and frequencies of high amplitude. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as shorter stroke length, smaller displacement, piston dwell time, piston pin off-set, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur. More importantly the actual tune of the engine, espcially with modified vheciles, is the biggest factor in potential engine damage. Poor tuning leads to detonation which is an engine killer that no damper can stop.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about solid crank pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand our crank pulleys better.
5) "will unorthodox racing lightened pulleys cause an oil pump failure?"
urban myths have been floating around about honda oil pumps failing by using an unorthodox racing crank pulley/s. The real fact is that these oem pumps have been failing with and without the use of our pulleys and before our crank pulley/s were available on the market. Also note that these failures are few and far in between.
The acura/honda oil pumps are excellent units, but there are a number of reasons for the failures that do occur.
Most of the oil pump failures have been in acura/honda b series 1.6/1.8l applications, chrsyler srt4, mazda 1.6/1.8l applications have seen a few failures, as well as the new ford focus zetec in race vehicles. Again, note that on all these applications the oil pump failures have occurred on engines not even using our pulley, they were using the stock crank pulley.
These pump failures can be linked to the following causes. These causes may act individually or in combination to cause the actual failures:
The gears used in many pumps including those in the honda b series engines and mazda miata engines are of a low-cost powdered metal composition. The factory uses this metal because of its acceptable cost-to-strength ratio. The problem is, these parts are not always deburred properly from the factory and when pushed to their limits can and do fail.
Many times additional stress is added to the oil pump by using oil thicker than what is specified by the manufacturer. The oil pump and bearing clearances were not designed from the factory to push oil of higher viscosities. This extra stress on the gears, combined with the above mentioned poor deburring process, can attribute to oil pump failure or engine failure.
Another contributing factor to oil pump failures is the weak cast backing plate of the b16/b18 oil pumps. Simple inspection shows that when compared to an h22 oil pump, a screw is not present in a critical location of the plate in the b series pumps. Compound this with the use of a higher viscosity motor oil and poorly deburred pump components and you have the ingredients for an oil pump failure.
This issue, specific to the mazda 1.6/1.8l engines, involves the flex of the crankshaft and the lower half of the engine due to the additional stress of a forced induction system (such as a turbo or supercharger). The additional stress produced by forced induction causes flexing of both the block and the crankshaft between the front main bearing and the oil pump. This can also contribute to oil pump failure. Early miatas were notorious for having crankshaft problems and later models suffered from problems as power is increased significantly.
Lastly, any failure inside a motor, related to aging components or a poor engine rebuild, can cause the oil pump to fail. Any particles passing through an oil pump design such as that used in the honda b series engines will cause damage or failure.
Remember that oil pump failures happen regularly on engines using a factory crank pulley. To help combat these failures, a few steps should be taken to help prolong the life of your oil pump and engine:
Unless building a race motor with race clearances in mind, you should always use an oil viscosity matching, or as close to the factory recommendations as possible.
If using a factory oil pump, always have your oil pump components deburred properly. It is recommended you have a competent engine rebuilder handle this.
For those who run dedicated / extreme race vehicles we recommend using an external wet or dry sump oiling system. These systems are designed for the heavy abuse a race engine receives on the track. Remember, the stock oiling systems were designed for factory horsepower levels and can only handle a certain amount of power increase over that level.
Lastly and most obvious, have a competent, trusted machine or performance shop rebuild your precious motor. It only takes one simple mistake to turn a costly engine rebuild into a doorstop.
If you have any other questions about this subject please don't hesitate to give us a call or drop us an e-mail. We take great pride in the craftsmanship of our products and are constantly striving to provide the highest quality products available to you, our customers.
6) "will these pulleys cause premature engine bearing wear?"
this is a fear many prospective owners have and is a valid concern since we are dealing directly with the rotating assembly. Fortunately it is another urban myth with no basis in fact. The fact is our pulleys have the opposite effect on engine bearings. The combination of tight tolerances, precise quality control, perfect balance, and dramatic weight loss versus the stock pulleys reduces stress loads on your engine, extending the service life of your engine. Engine bearing problems are purely associated to poor engine maintenance, use of heavier than factory recommended oils, improper engine building practices (which includes poor balancing), excessively revving of engines when they are cold, and owners expecting their factory oil pumps to handle engine power outputs beyond 3, 4, even 5+ times the stock power levels.
08-22-2008, 02:20 AM
#7
A-spec steering wheel ftw
Join Date: Jan 2007
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yea you dont really have much to worry about. the only real noticeable "minus" is that you will hear a fluctuation in your AC when you step on the gas; other than that, it feels great 
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08-22-2008, 06:37 AM
#8
try a reset of the ECU so the car learns the new pully and adjust operating parameters- remove the CLOCK fuse from passenger side footwell area-(#12 or 13 iirc)
remove fuse- wait a minute- reinsert fuse
start car and drive- it can take a week or up to 500 miles to completely learn everything
remove fuse- wait a minute- reinsert fuse
start car and drive- it can take a week or up to 500 miles to completely learn everything
08-22-2008, 06:45 AM
#9
When you see a big hill coming up in the road- drop it in D4, so its not in overdrive- and that will cut down of the shifting and hunting for the right gear as the Grade logic is forcing it to do now
When you reset the ECU- go run it like you normally drive- its learning from you how much throttle and revs you use normally-
There is no reason to baby it after pully install. thast not a new part that has to mesh with other parts.
If it was new transmission that would be different,
For those worried about balance- dont be concerned- the engine is balanced inside and the stock pully only has a vibration dampner- but you dont feel any differance because we have those cool fluid filled vacuum boosted (some years) motor mounts.
If it were a problem- dont you think several YEARS of them being in use on acura TLs and not reports of failures or damage.
As long as its on tight- 181 foot pounds- thats the big issue- getting it that tight
You had acura do it.- they have the correct tools for the job, so go pull that fuse and then drive,,, enjoy the rev rocket it has become
When you reset the ECU- go run it like you normally drive- its learning from you how much throttle and revs you use normally-
There is no reason to baby it after pully install. thast not a new part that has to mesh with other parts.
If it was new transmission that would be different,
For those worried about balance- dont be concerned- the engine is balanced inside and the stock pully only has a vibration dampner- but you dont feel any differance because we have those cool fluid filled vacuum boosted (some years) motor mounts.
If it were a problem- dont you think several YEARS of them being in use on acura TLs and not reports of failures or damage.
As long as its on tight- 181 foot pounds- thats the big issue- getting it that tight
You had acura do it.- they have the correct tools for the job, so go pull that fuse and then drive,,, enjoy the rev rocket it has become
08-22-2008, 05:58 PM
#10
try a reset of the ECU so the car learns the new pully and adjust operating parameters- remove the CLOCK fuse from passenger side footwell area-(#12 or 13 iirc)
remove fuse- wait a minute- reinsert fuse
start car and drive- it can take a week or up to 500 miles to completely learn everything
remove fuse- wait a minute- reinsert fuse
start car and drive- it can take a week or up to 500 miles to completely learn everything
08-22-2008, 06:04 PM
#11
Safety Car
Thread Starter
i heard that "whirling" noise in the mornings, but never while just driving...guess it's normal then eh?
08-22-2008, 06:48 PM
#13
Yes removing the NEG cable at the battery also resets the ECU
I gave the other way since it saves you from entering the radio and nav security codes.
Not everyone knows their codes and has the written down somewhere they can find
the CLOCK fuse method does not affect the radios, and the clock fuse is the secret backup power to the ecu~
I gave the other way since it saves you from entering the radio and nav security codes.
Not everyone knows their codes and has the written down somewhere they can find
the CLOCK fuse method does not affect the radios, and the clock fuse is the secret backup power to the ecu~
08-26-2008, 05:01 PM
#14
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08-26-2008, 06:01 PM
#15
Most private acura-honda shops will charge about 60 dollars- thats 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour.
An experienced tech (on this job) with the correct tools- can do it in 20 minutes at a casual pace.
Dont want you to get upset at what they charge for what they did in such short time~
so have to work slowly and wipe things repeatedly
if you buy the cool tool to hold the stock pulley still to remove it- thats 25 bucks and makes life way better, then you need a good torque wrench to 181 ft lbs.
Plus a looooooonnnnng breaker bar to leverage that 181 ft lbs onto the bolt while UNDER the car.
Have a trusted friend standing by while you work under the car- and they are needed to jam a prybar into the flywheel teeth and hold it- to hold the engine still- while you apply the torque to the nut
I vote for `let the shop handle this one` the dealer for this?- not really-
I like to support the small place, where I can speak directly with the tech, the old guy at the counter is dad the owner...
An experienced tech (on this job) with the correct tools- can do it in 20 minutes at a casual pace.
Dont want you to get upset at what they charge for what they did in such short time~
so have to work slowly and wipe things repeatedly
if you buy the cool tool to hold the stock pulley still to remove it- thats 25 bucks and makes life way better, then you need a good torque wrench to 181 ft lbs.
Plus a looooooonnnnng breaker bar to leverage that 181 ft lbs onto the bolt while UNDER the car.
Have a trusted friend standing by while you work under the car- and they are needed to jam a prybar into the flywheel teeth and hold it- to hold the engine still- while you apply the torque to the nut
I vote for `let the shop handle this one` the dealer for this?- not really-
I like to support the small place, where I can speak directly with the tech, the old guy at the counter is dad the owner...
08-26-2008, 09:29 PM
#16
So the stock pulley is a vibration dampner? I wonder if the UR pulley can also be causing my tensioner rattle? it only rattles when the car is hot, audible when stopped while in drive, when accessories kick on, (like air compressor, slamming down all windows, turning the stearing wheel, etc).
Anyone with UR also experiencing tensioner rattle? and YES I've had my tensioner replaced and that didn't fix it.
05-22-2010, 01:39 PM
#18
I wonder if the UR pulley can also be causing my tensioner rattle? it only rattles when the car is hot, audible when stopped while in drive, when accessories kick on, (like air compressor, slamming down all windows, turning the stearing wheel, etc).
Anyone with UR also experiencing tensioner rattle? and YES I've had my tensioner replaced and that didn't fix it.
Anyone with UR also experiencing tensioner rattle? and YES I've had my tensioner replaced and that didn't fix it.
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