How often do you replace your pads on the 07 type-s? I've got about 15k miles and so far it looks like they are wearing and already might needed replacing. Just curious as to when others replace their pads.

 

tcwhite, I have an '07 TL Type-S, and I recently went in for my "A2" service at 12K mi. The service advisor told me that the next time I came in for service, I would most likely have to replace my front brakes as well. He said that as they are brembos, they use much softer pads, and will wear out sooner than others.

 

thanks, I didn't want to be the only person with these kind of miles to already replacing them. We will see on monday what they want to do.

 

I have 60000KM on my originals, I'm just getting ready to do a brake job this weekend but it's because the rears are warped, not front wear.

 

Mine has made a grinding sound as the car comes to a stop. Sounds like when the rotors are wet and the pad grabs it as it stops. Thinking it may be the pads haven't seated/worn good. It does it everytime I stop. I think I will get Acura to replace them and check the rotors. With 2500 miles, they should be broke in.

 

I'd suspect these pads won't last long. After a week, the mixture of brake dust and tire dressing forms this black paste on my wheels. I love it though--the brakes are fantastic.

 

The TL-S uses different pads than every other TL. They're more tolerant of higher temperatures, but won't work quite as well in very cold temperatures. They could well last at least as long as "standard" pads, but wear the rotors quicker.

These brakes are "very decent." They aren't fantastic. My '99 Camaro stopped better than this car. The TL-S brakes are nice in terms of their progression and modulation due to the 4 piston caliper design. They're superior to the Camaro's in that respect.

A host of newer cars stop better than either of those.

Drive a Porsche 911 GT 3. THAT has "fantastic" brakes (by street car standards). for that matter, a base model C6 Corvette equipped with the Z51 package is fully adequate for demonstrating real stopping power.

I think Acura should have used two piston sliding caliper on the front (like that 'Vette) and spent the savings on larger rotors (e.g. 13" front/12" rear) all around.

 

My buddy has an 07 TL Type-S and he has 19k miles on it. His breaks are still original and has not been changed.

 

I figured I'm entitled to respond since you quoted my post originally. I'm sure all of us went into this thread knowing that the pads on the TL Type-S are different and use a little higher performing friction compound.


Oh. I guess my definition of "fantastic" isn't as good as yours. Pardon me.

Yeah I have a couple '99 Camaros and GT3s, they all have lousy brakes. They barely stop the car and the fade is so bad, it's treacherous. Clearly, the context of my post that you're replying to stated that the TL Type-S has the world's best brakes, never to be challenged.


I think you should write a paper about all of this stuff. It's fantastic material.

I implore you, next time quote someone else. Just leave me out of it. It fatigues me. Thanks and have a pleasant day.

 

You're the guy who wrote this:

Why do you "suspect these pads won't last long?"

Higher performance pads can actually last LONGER than more standardized pads. It's the ROTORS that generally wear faster with such pads.

The brakes are not "fantastic." I gave you an example of what qualifies as "fantastic" brakes (Porsche 911 GT2). For that matter, go check out the brakes on a BMW M5 or M6...Or a new Z51 Corvette...
Or a new Viper...Or about 50 other cars I could list if I felt like getting into it.

These brakes are only "fantastic" by Honda standards. I've owned four Honda products (my new TL-S, a '95 Accord LX, an '04 Accord V6 EX sedan and an '06 Accord V6/6 speed coupe). All three Accords had lousy brakes. By those standards, the TL-S's brakes are "fantastic." By true performance car standards, they are quite modest.

The TL-S is a ~ 3,600 pound car. The front rotors are 12.2" dia and the rears are 11.1". That's just not a whole lot of swept area per ton - regardless of who makes the front calipers.

The car would stop with a lot more authority for less money if it had 13" front rotors, 12" rear rotors and twin piston, sliding calipers in the front instead of the Brembo 4 piston fixed calipers. Modulation wouldn't be slightly compromised, but the difference in stopping power would be VERY significant - at ALL speeds.

 

Check out the brake rotor size of the BMW 535i. That's a "regular" model (not an "M" performance model):

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/5/535iSedan/techdata.htm

Brakes
Front - diameter 13.7 inch
Rear - diameter 13.6 inch

Curb weight is in the same ballpark at the TL-S...

Remember that rotor area = pi X radius SQUARED. So what seems small e.g. a 1.5" difference in rotor diameter at each corner) is actually anything but.

Those brakes still aren't "fantastic." Rather, they are " quite powerful" - at all speeds.

 

High performance pads don't all last longer as a general rule, and they all aren't excessively abrasive to rotors. Some compounds can certainly last a long time and/or can promote fast wear of the rotors. But to generalize and make such a blanket statement about all high performance pads is incorrect, and unusual for someone like you who apparently strives to be a subject matter expert on everything.

Given the reports I've read of owners who replace the pads on their TL-S with less than 20,000 miles, and what I've witnessed thus far on my own car, I think it is fair to say that these pads won't last a particularly long time. However I really hope you're right.

I'm glad you still take offense at my use of the word "fantastic" and have not let it go or read what I think of it.


Are you still talking to me?

 

The EBC Greens in my 1LE Camaro lasted for 40K miles...

As for "fantastic" stopping power, consider this:

A TL-S manual has a swept area per ton of 273 in sq./ton.

A new Z06 Corvette's is 377 in sq./ton.

And there are dozens of cars that fall somewhere in the middle. "Fantastic" isn't an appropriate adjective for the TL-S's brakes.

I know people who have replaced pads in 20K miles in MANY "regular" cars while others have gone 2 - 3 times as far. Most of that difference lays in driving habits.

High performance pads tend to be harder than most standard pads. They will wear well. Most people who own cars with such pads tend to drive them much harder. That leads many to erroneously conclude that high performance brake pads have shorter duty cycles.

 

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive.html


EBC's most aggressive street pad is the "yellow." That gets a wear rating of "excellent."

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/yellowstuffinfo.html

Their middle street brake is their red. That gets a wear rating of "good."

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/redstuffinfo.html

The greens are the least aggressive, yet they have the worst wear rating "medium to good."

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/greenstuffinfo.html

That's an "apples to apples" comparison, since the same company makes all of them and they're all rated for steet use.

The higher performance pads actually wear LONGER - for any given level of use.

That's only logical, since they are harder and are most resistant to fade.

 

Have you EVER posted in a thread that you DIDN'T threadjack?

Seriously, can't you just answer the fucking question instead of telling us how great your Camaro was and comparing the TL to cars that are in a COMPLETELY different performance class?

 

Have you EVER posted in a thread that you DIDN'T threadjack?

Seriously, can't you just answer the fucking question instead of telling us how great your Camaro was and comparing the TL to cars that are in a COMPLETELY different performance class?

 

+1

 

Nothing's been "threadjacked." A member called his TL-S's brakes "fantastic."

Objective facts (e.g. swept area per ton) don't support that statement.

My Camaro was built NINE model years ago and cost me $21,600 out the door. There is no good reason why a $39K "sport sedan" built 9 years later can't at least match the Camaro's braking performance, which itself was somewhat modest by today's sport sedan standards.

Example. Here's what the new BMW 535 is running for brakes and that's not even an "M:'

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/5/535iSedan/techdata.htm

Brakes
Front - diameter 13.7 inch
Rear - diameter 13.6 inch

 

UPDATE:

The Acura RL uses 12.6" front rotors and 12.2" rear rotors.

These brakes would have been an EXCELLENT choice for the TL-S!!

 

Just put him in your "Ignore List" and never worry about it again. That's what I did after the last bout of nonsensical replies. Oh and try not to use the word "fantastic" lightly.

 

My 07 TL-S brakes are just fine for the car - my 05 S2000 brakes are just fine for that car. Both cars have ceramic pads that produce less dust and that makes me work less to keep the wheels clean. Compared to other cars I've owned (72 240Z, 71 Datson 1200, 81 Audi 5+5, 87 4Runner, 91 Accord EX, and a 95 4Runner) both car have very good brakes. I have driven a couple of 3 series and a 5 serious BMWs and an 07 987 2S that had nice brakes but not at 3 times the cost of my 05 S2000.
Some people are just never happy - or they have way to much time to spend on the net....

 

The TL-S brakes are nothing more than "adequate" for this car.

Anyone who understands the concept of swept area per ton can see that.

Most of the cars you have owned are either old and/or SUVs. Brakes in moder performance cars are a completely different story. The S2000's brakes are slightly better than the TL-S's, although they're lame when compared with TRUE performance cars (e.g. Z51 Corvette).

Cast iron is cheap. Acura could have fit the TL-S with RL brakes for perhaps another $50 - their cost.

My 1999 Z28 Camaro had more stopping power than my new TL-S and I paid $21,600 for that car.

 

I bet you wished you still had your 99 Z28 don't you????

 

BTW - just add a BBK front and rear and then you'll have more swept area (note to self, changing brake swept size doesn't mean you have increased the performance of the brake system on any single car - just upped the "bling" factor).

 

Yep...

But only as a "second/summer" car.

My living situation doesn't allow for that and I wasn't up for renting out garage space at another location. I tried that for awhile when I leased my '04 Accord V6 EX as my new "main car." Keeping the Z rapidly turned into a pain in the ass.

Dynamically speaking, the car was impossible to argue against for anything remotely close to that level of money.

Mine was essentially a stock 1LE, although I fitted it with JBA "shorty" headers, an SLP cat-back, a B&M "Ripper shifter," Kenny Brown subframe connectors, a Recaro and a few other, less significant goodies.

A GM "hot cam," LS6 valve springs, LS6 intake and a pushrod upgrade were on the "to do" list had I kept the car.

 

Swept area per ton is the single best gauge for quantifying available stopping power.


There's far more to it than the "bling factor."

Jump into the brakes at 130 MPH in a TL-S and there's not a whole lot there. Do the same in a brand new 535i (essentially identical to the TL-S in weight and overall size, but with 13.7/13.6 rotors) and it's a whole different story.

Road and Track is one of the few publications that bothers to publish swept area per ton figures.

The Brembos on the TL-S adds "bling." I'd have preferred two piston, sliding calipers with 13.5" rotors all around for the same money.

 

I have a 2004 6-spd with OEM Brembo brakes and 34K miles. I need to replace both the rotors and pads. The dealer has quoted me $800+ (argh).

Midas says they will install the parts if I bring them in, for only $80 (seems reasonable).

I am not sure which parts to buy. I am looking at the following. What do people recommend for this car as I am a fairly tame driver?

pads: EBC Red ($111/pair)

rotors: $88/each - Power Slot Front Left Brake Disc - Premium Slotted
1999-2004 Acura TLPREMIUM SLOTTED BRAKE ROTOR, LEFT FRONT -- Exclusive Vac-U-Slots Help Evacuate Gasses And Dust, Shed Heat, And Help Keep The Brake Pads Clean, Vac-U-Slots Help Keep Water Away From The Braking Surface For Better Stopping, Sold Individually
Location: Front Left
Series: Premium Slotted

 

The Tire Rack sells Brembo OEM style replacement rotors. They are NICE. I got them for my Z28 3 years back.

I ran EBC Greens on that. The Reds are also a good choice.

Slotted and drilled brakes do next to nothing on the street car other than "look cool." They actually REDUCE swept area (because of the grooves) and rotor mass (less heat sink).

 

Which rotors would you recommend then?

I can't seem to confirm on most parts retailer's websites which are actually 12.2".

These seem good, but can't tell if they'll fit (though the website says they are for 2004 MT 6spd).

Thank you.


Click to Enlarge

#CE120.40046 Brake Disc Centric $65.11
Vehicle:
2004 – 2006 Acura TL

Fits Engine – Chassis:

3.2L, V6, GAS, FI, J32A3 — Base

Description:
CENTRIC PREMIUM BRAKE DISC WITH BLACK E-COATED HUB, DIRECT FIT OEM REPLACEMENT BRAKE ROTOR, SOLD INDIVIDUALLY, FRONT -- Centric Premium Black Rotors Offer Superior Machined Surfaces That Provide Smoother And Quieter Stops And Longer Brake Pad Life, Black E-Coating Gives Long Lasting Corrosion Protection, Centric Premium Rotors Meet Or Exceed OEM Standards For Excellence, Sold Individually

 

So has anyone used these brakes on the TL-S ? Are they as good with less dust? I hate excessive dusting. I actually dont; feel like my TL-S stops any better than my 07 TL did, but I am not that hard on the brakes. I suspect the darker Type-S wheels are a benefit to hide the dusting.

 

All '04 6 speed TLs and all TL Type Ss use 12.2" front rotors.

I recommended using either a new OEM rotor or a Brembo OEM style replacement rotor (as offered by the Tire Rack) with EBC Reds (or a similar pad).

I would avoid rotors with coatings, slots, holes, etc.

These brakes aren't all that big for a TL-S. The automatic TL-S is almost 200 pounds heavier than the '04 TL 6 speed for which these brakes were originally sized. The Type S cars use slightly more aggressive pads, but that doesn't buy all that much.

I think TL-S models should come standard with RL brakes (12.6" front rotors and 12.2" rears). Even then, the TL-S wouldn't match the most basic BMW 5 series (528i), which comes standard with 12.8" front rotors and 12.6" rear rotors.

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/5/528iSedan/techdata.htm

 

So, buy a BMW - then you can brag about having more brake swept area than the Acura TL -S!!!!!

 

BTW, just added to ignore list....

 

We are all saps for buying junk Acuras instead of combing the junk yarks for 1999 comaros

 

Most of them aren't in "junk-yards."

And laugh all you want, but the truth of the matter is that some kid can pick up a used, bone stock LS1 Camaro for about $8,500 and smoke your ass without much of an effort. It wouldn't even be remotely close if the kid decided to invest an additional ~ $6K in well chosen parts.

But that's largely a moot point.

Comparing apples to apples (i.e. modern, luxury/performance sedans), the TL-S's swept area per ton is on the light side.

It would stop MUCH better with the RL's brakes - especially at speed.

I'm always amazed at the lack of objectivity with people and what they own. "I own it, so it's flawless."

 

If the 1999 Camaro's brakes are still the topic of conversation...

1999 Camaro Z28 SS
60-0 132 feet
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...23/pageId=1121


2004 Acura TL 6 speed
60-0 115.96 feet
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...7/pageId=57722


Using "the Google", one can find 60-0 specs for both cars all over the internet. More often than not the TL exhibits superior stopping distances, even with its allegedly inferior brakes.

If I were on a track, the Camaro would really need significantly larger brakes than the TL in order for its endurance to be a massive advantage. Since I drive on the street, brake fade on my inferior TL is a non-issue, so I don't care.

Though no one has ever said the TL Type-S has the world's best brakes, to say it falls short of a Chevrolet Camaro SS is amusing.

 

I love the brakes on my TL. I have the brembos in the front; with a softer pad material you of course are going to go through them faster than the same car with "regular" brakes and pad material.

Also, the people who are seeking out a TL with the brembos generally get them for a reason.. to use them.. so you take an enthusiast driver + softer pad material = faster wear

My rims are usually dusty after a day or two

I doubt Acura undersized the brakes; maybe the Camaro has better brakes because the rest of the car is a piece of crap with horrid materials.

 

Funny, my 2000 WS-6 6 speed sucked at stopping. The brakes where horrible. It was fast as hell, but was a piece of plastic shit. The LS1 is a fantastic motor, the T56 is a nice transmission (except for the 3rd gear grinding in the GM POS's, funny how the vipers and cobras don't have that issue), but overall the car was a piece of crap.

Back to the issue of brakes, lots of guys have upgraded rotors and pads, check out the vender MrHeelToe, he knows alot about brakes and they have some new rotors if i'm not mistaken. Also check the performace section of boards, lot of brake info in there.

 

So a 1999 camaro gets 30 mpg stops from 60-0 in 20 feet and runs the 1/4 mile in 12 sec
blah blah blah Now that's objective No my car is not perfect just better than a 9 year old chevy in so many ways

 

How do the 130 MPH to 0 MPH stopping distances compare?

And for the record, an '04 TL is LIGHTER than a new TL Type S, while the SS Camaro was HEAVIER than my 1LE. In other words, your comparison vehicles aren't representative of my original statement.

For the record, any such comparison would have to be performed by the same driver on the same track on the same day under the same se tof conditions.

There are way too many variables involved otherwise.