ThunderDan

I have a 2004 TL AT with 76,000 miles on it. I bought it used with 69,000 miles in good shape in March of last year. Drove it for about 6 months and ran into an issue where I needed to have the APP sensor replaced. At the same time, I had a drain and fill done with Honda ATF at 75,000 miles. I do not believe the transmission fluid had ever been changed prior to this point.

I am now noticing some unusual changes while driving. The transmission is definitely not slipping, but it is shifting hard into 2nd and 3rd gear at lower RPMs (i.e. in traffic). It seems to shift fine above 3000 RPMs. I also am detecting a faint whirring sound. There are no CEL or codes present. I checked the transmission fluid and it at the right level, it appeared mostly brown with a touch of pink.

How can I tell if something is actually wrong? Do I need to replace the 3rd and 4th gear sensors? Do I need to do the 3 x 3 flush? Could this possibly be a motor mount issue? And should I use the new Honda ATF since I thought I read they stopped selling the Z1?

Feedback would be appreciated. Thank you!

j-rogsuperstar

I would swap your pressure switches with some new ones. I was having the same issue with harsh shifts. Switched mine out last weekend with help from a friend, and it made a good difference. Still not PERFECT, so I'm ordering some Redline Type F soon for a 3x3...


I would go ahead and do the switches. If that doesn't help, do a 3x3. (Redline or the new Honda fluid)

I got my switches for 80$ shipped, if that helps. Good luck!

ThunderDan

Thanks. Where did you get the switches from? I looked online a bit and saw they were a lot more than $80.

j-rogsuperstar

Try acuraoemparts.com or PM AckTl05. He's one of our vendors. (I did the latter)


Just let him know your address and tl year model. If you go to acuraoemparts.com, you'll need the parts numbers...lemme see if I can find them. They're on the DIY pressure switch thread...

I think some guys may have found it even cheaper than that, but 80 is the average, it seems.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Bro please do not suggest anyone to do a 3x3 with Type F....couple people have encountered flaring issues and if the OP's tranny takes a dump you dont want it to be on u....



OP,
1> switch the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches as suggested by j-rogsuperstar
2> do a tranny flush (i prefer a 4x3 compared to 3x3) with Redline Fluid....

Read this thread for more on the fluid and how much of Type F you should use....

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/optimal-percentage-racing-atf-834299/

Cliffs:
For anyone that is beginning to use Racing ATF for the first time
Refill #1 = 2 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF
Refill #2 = 2 qt Lightweight ATF + 1 qt Racing ATF
Refill #3 = 1 qt D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF
Subsequent refill: 1 quart D4 + 1 quart Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF

j-rogsuperstar

My bad, swoosh...OP, he's right. Check out that thread by Innacurate. Sad part is...I read that very thread. I was planning on doing that myself.

Good catch on my slip, man.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ Not a problem bro....happens

ThunderDan

Thanks for the feedback. Can i do a 3x3 with the new Honda ATF?

I hate cars

Type F is still fine. I've done a total of 9 drain and refills on it and at 105k it shifts better than new. However, the switches should be done at the same time within reason. I probably have the most number of miles on this fluid at 35k and the previous 50k was on a D4 equivalent, not Honda fluid. A less FM fluid can't make a trans slip while a heavily friction modified fluid can stop slippage. I believe Inaccurate stated what he was experiencing was not slippage. In a transmission with an inherent design flaw where it drags 3rd gear on the 4-2 downshift, type F can cause additional wear on that clutch pack. The best combo would be to avoid an automatic 4-2 kickdown and running type F along with new switches. If you don't want type F, use any Dex III equivalent.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ yeah i have done 4 refills with Type F...10K miles....no problems

but since some members have encountered flaring, i didnt want to suggest the same to the OP....

I hate cars

I think it definitely needs to have a disclaimer by it. I probably wouldn't do it without replacing the switches first and also that damn 4-2 downshift issue. The Z1 actually helps make up for a design defect in that downshift. It almost makes sense that those who regularly manually shift might experience a longer transmission life.

Going a little off topic but I think that defect can be resolved with a software update.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ yeah i went thro that issue when you guys were discussing....i felt as if Acura designed everything well and as they were leaving for home, put the tranny together and a damn fluid which kinda complements it....

well...after i read the issues i figured out why my car does this (i drive in SS mode 100% of the time)....
am on 4th and arriving at a light....which is about turn....i brake as am about the enter the turn, tap the gear 2 times (expecting 2nd gear), car does not like to shift into 2nd, there is NO slipping, no surging, no flaring....and am in 3rd, i take the turn.....after a split second, if i tap the gear head again the car shifts to 2nd.....

i used to curse the car when this happened but now and happy LOL....i will NEVER EVER do a very quick 4th to 2nd shift LOL....5th to 2nd is great, but not 4th to 2nd

j-rogsuperstar

Swoosh, you have me thinking I may go SS 100%....usually I do it just for a little fun.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ yeah i use it even when i got on a 300mile drive LOL....

thassett

I have an 06 TL AT with 103k and did a 3x3 drain and refill about 8k miles ago, and am too noticing that faint whirring sound when I put some torque to the transmission. (i.e. - press the gas down more than just a light amount)

So I'm going to do a pressure switch replacement and will let you know how it goes.

I also notice that when I shift into drive, there's about a 2 second delay before the transmission fully engages.

Crossing fingers that the pressure switch replacement will do the trick.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ no it wont....

This is what the pressure switches do:

When you reach say 30mph, your tranny should switch to 4th from 3rd....but since the pressure switch is old, it lags a little bit going into 4th....its basically a switch which switches at some pressure.....

as the names suggest they just affect switches going from 3rd and 4th gear....

about tranny taking a split second to engage, that is normal....

I suggest switching to redline fluid....you can find the optimal % of redline fluid and viscosity in this thread (read 2-3 pages, since it has updated fluid %'s)....

Hope this helps....

I hate cars

Replacing the switches can help the lag going into drive. When you shift from park or neutral to drive, the trans hits 3rd gear first and then downshifts to first gear. It does this to make the engagement from neutral to forward more gentle without jerking the car. When the switches get out of calibration, it can stay in 3rd gear a little too long before going back down to first gear.

Your issues may or may not be caused from the switches but they have helped others with this issue and they helped my car. I'm getting ready to replace mine for a second time.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ I was always under the impression that it hits 2nd....

Another thing learned....

I will be switching the switches for a second time in the next 10K miles

thassett

Thanks guys!!

Swoosh - I had read in one of the DIY threads (about the pressure switch replacement) about the AT hitting third as it engages into drive/1st, so that was my thinking there. As my TL has aged, that delay of going into drive has become more pronounced, so I'm thinking the switch replacement could help with this.

I'm going to try and do this tomorrow, and will post how it goes.

Thanks to you and everyone here in the community for their help!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ yes in this case, it does sound like it....

btw how many miles are you at ? am at 160K

thassett

103k here for my '06 TL. Got it new with 4 miles on it....love the car.

I hate cars

Pretty close here. 8 miles to 106k. It's been great.

thassett

IHC, swoosh and others.....

I'm getting ready to order the switches, and am getting confused regarding the correct part #.

I have a 2006, Navi, 5AT.

In the A-110 DIY guide for replacing the switches (here: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/110-diy-guide-replacing-3rd-4th-gear-pressure-switch-3g-tl-2004-2006-a-729149/)

it says the materials needed are:

Materials needed:
x1 3rd Gear Pressure Switch (28600-P7Z-003)
x1 4th Gear Pressure Switch (28600-P7W-003)
x2 sealing gasket (90471-PW7-A00)


BUT......

acuraoemparts.com says that for my model, I need:

28600-RAY-003 and
28610-RAY-003

....and then there's a good amount of discussion on this topic...


What are your thoughts?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Both are the same....they switch at the same PSI

thassett

Thanks swoosh! I'm putting my order in today at oemacuraparts, but wanted to ask one last question and I'll leave you alone. :-)

While both switch part numbers are the same PSI and essentially the same build (except for the raised ridge), is one of higher quality or design? I ask because.....

a) My local dealer shows the P7W part numbers in their system as the newer parts, and ones ordered more recently.

b) oemacuraparts has both the RAY and P7W parts in stock, with the P7W's being about $10 more expensive.

c) in the A-110 thread, majofo said "They look the same except for the flush connection.. could be a redesign for several reasons including thermal / reliability, although the actual spec is the same."


Am I being too OCD / Anal over this, and should I just order the RAY part # since that's oemacuraparts shows for my vehicle?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^

just get the RAY part #'s

on a side note, if you see the P7Z parts are out there since a while 1998 as compared to RAY's coming out in 2003....I dont think the connectors have changed but MAJOFO is a respected member on this forum and will take his word for it, that they dont fit as flush....

Personally i would have gone with the cheaper one but i would suggest getting the RAY part number's.....

thassett

10-4. Thanks again! I ordered the RAY part #'s since they were $10 cheaper than the P7W's, and since majofo also mentioned that the P7W's seem to be the older part, also used in some '01-'04 Acuras and Hondas.

(also got new washer gaskets)

Will let everyone know how it goes!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^

Here is the DIY thread incase you need it....

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=729149

thassett

So I replaced my switches this morning, and everything went pretty well.

HARDEST PART: Unplugging the little plastic connectors to move away the 3rd switch shroud, and unplugging the 4th switch connector. I cut up my hands a few times doing this, and this is a big pain in the ass.

- Shifting into 1st/Drive is smoother and quicker.

- Overall, shifts are smoother. Not a dramatic difference, but noticeable.

- The guys at oemacuraparts.com are very cool. I ordered on Monday, but since everyone was closed for the new year, my order might not have arrived in time for me to do the work. So they upgraded my shipping to FedEx overnight, for free.

- Finally, ThunderDan: After the pressure switch change, I still have this noise as well! It is present when in 3rd or 4th gear, between about 1,000 and 3,000 RPM, while putting a moderate to heavy load on the transmission. (i.e. - anything more than very light use of the gas pedal)

I'm not sure what it is, but I have brand new switches, and recently did a 3x3 with official Honda ATF. ??? Confused on this one...

I would describe it as this weird "whirring" or "rattling" sound.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

FROM MY UNDERSTANDING switches only help in switching....if you have a noise when your in a particular gear, switches dont have anything to do with it.....

the switches will reduce lag while shifting....so you will get quicker shifts....

I hate cars

Exactly.

Whining noise that varies with engine rpm is likely torque converter.

With road speed is final drive whine.

Torque converter hissing is normal during powerbraking.

A clatter with light throttle is usually torque converter clutch clearance. I used to run a converter with a 6 disk clutch instead of the usual 1 disk and the clatter was pretty bad.

Mine has had a final drive whine since it was brand new. Hasn't gotten any worse in 100k and got slightly better with Redline ATF.

thassett

Thanks guys.

IHC "Clatter" is a good way to describe the noise. This is a new noise, which has been present for about the past 8k miles. (I'm at 103k now) Is there any easy way to address this torque converter clutch clearance? Or better to just continue to drive until there's a major issue?


Same here. Got the car brand new with 4 miles on it, and this has always been an issue.

I hate cars

A whirring sound along with a clatter is very likely a converter issue. There's nothing you can do other than replace the converter. Check the fluid for metallic particles and clutch material regularly. If they start showing up on the dipstick you may want to shorten the change interval and use a cheaper fluid. You don't want debris plugging the filter and killing the trans.

It could always be other things so I wouldn't worry too much, just pay attention to the fluid and the way it shifts.

thassett

IHC, I did some digging, and the noise is 100% the heat shied issue, here:

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/lets-play-name-tune-%5Bvideos-attached%5D-794713/

This YouTube video is identical to my noise:



Searching now for a thread to adjust/replace the head shield.......

I hate cars

That's great news, mine only made the noise at idle, at least what I could tell but all I had to do is bend it slightly with a long extension and it went away.

thassett

Sweet, thanks for the info. The Acura TSB on how to fix this issue shows removing the exhaust system!! Definitely not in the cards for me to fix such a minor issue. So bending with an extension sounds MUCH better.

guitarplayer16

iTrader: (8)

I don't recall the TSB saying to remove the exhaust system to fix the heat shield whine/rattle.

thassett

http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/B07-026.PDF

Page 2, repair procedure B for a TL. Step 3, "Remove Exhaust Pipe A".


This is for a full heat shield replacement, which is what Acura recommends as the fix. I'd love to do a replacement, as I'm pretty OCD about taking the most complete route, but I'll probably cause more harm than good following these instructions!!

allin

This is for a full heat shield replacement, which is what Acura recommends as the fix. I'd love to do a replacement, as I'm pretty OCD about taking the most complete route, but I'll probably cause more harm than good following these instructions!![/quote]

Have you had a chance to look under the car yet? I have a very similar noise and I got under the car tonight, but the heat shield had zero movement, so i'm at a loss. Wondering what you found.

thassett

not yet allin - will probably have to tackle it this weekend, but will definitely let you know.