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I have an '04 TL with an auto transmission and 128K miles. I've read horror stories online about these transmissions going out. So far, mine seems to be OK and I recently had the fluid completely drained and replaced at the dealer. The dealer service advisor said these don't fail but an indy tranny shop told me the failure is due to the filter not being able to be replaced and eventually it becomes clogged preventing fluid from properly circulating. This will eventually happen no matter how often the fluid is changed.
My question is who to believe and is it worth it to have a tranny shop replace the filter to save more $$ in the future? I saw some videos online about replacing an external filter but I don't know what that is. Any advice or other experiences would be helpful.
that is not the main filter that is for the differential, you can change it if you want but it is NOT the main filter as that is internal to the transmission. There is a internal "filter" that trains the fluid and that is what gets clogged up ultimately killing the trans. there are also screens on the pressure switches and you have to remove the block assembly to get to them.
Thanks for the info. Is it worth having someone open the tranny to replace the filter? Any idea how much that would cost? Or just continue with keeping the fluid clean?
Tranny work would be greater than $1500 if I would have to take a guess. I have a filter/hardware for sale. Let me know if you wanna snag it off me. Was going to put in my 05 but trans died on me before I could. $25 shipped.
How many miles did you get out of it? And how did you know it needed to be replaced because those pressure sensors and solenoid switches can get dirty or need to be replaced which can cause shifting problems.
Originally Posted by BreezyTL
Tranny work would be greater than $1500 if I would have to take a guess. I have a filter/hardware for sale. Let me know if you wanna snag it off me. Was going to put in my 05 but trans died on me before I could. $25 shipped.
Good question. I was wondering about it getting dirty and at a minimum putting a strain on the system.. Like similar to being clogged. 1 year ago I bought the filter at an Acura dealer in Plano, TX. And he parts guy said Honda does not issue a recommendation interval to replace it. And i also heard on acurazine that the 07 and 08s do not have a filter.. did you know that back in he 40s and 50s, according to Scott Kilmer on YouTube, cars never even had filters for their engine oil! They just changed it more often. I would be willing to bet on the 04-06 TL's that have a filter in the transmission, you could likely just remove the filter and leave it out.. And getting that spring back in the filter housing is a pain according to some reports on azine.. So I say, if you have done several of the 3 quart swaps, and if your fluid is red, then I bet you can just leave the filter out. And just remember to do a 3 quart flush every 10k miles or so. The transmission drain bolt is already magnetized to catch any metal shavings. So imo, it's just a matter of keeping the fluid clean. . And plus the transmission doesn't really burn fluid like engine oil does anyway. So I'm thinking about just taking out my filter Permanently ! I never did install my new one. Ha!
Originally Posted by RandyMarshRules
I have an '04 TL with an auto transmission and 128K miles. I've read horror stories online about these transmissions going out. So far, mine seems to be OK and I recently had the fluid completely drained and replaced at the dealer. The dealer service advisor said these don't fail but an indy tranny shop told me the failure is due to the filter not being able to be replaced and eventually it becomes clogged preventing fluid from properly circulating. This will eventually happen no matter how often the fluid is changed.
My question is who to believe and is it worth it to have a tranny shop replace the filter to save more $$ in the future? I saw some videos online about replacing an external filter but I don't know what that is. Any advice or other experiences would be helpful.
How many miles did you get out of it? And how did you know it needed to be replaced because those pressure sensors and solenoid switches can get dirty or need to be replaced which can cause shifting problems.
Mine quit out at 196,xxx miles. Was slipping every time I pushed the gas. Would never engage enough to speed up and shift gears. She was done!
I'm not sure if you have experienced this, but my TL has 96k miles. (under 100k) I was driving home last Sunday afternoon, and I was on the highway, and I got on it, and it downshifted to 2nd gear and it would not Upshift.. So I did like 6000 rpm and got off the highway at the next exit.. And as I slowed down the engine wound down and it shifted into first at the stop light, normally... So I pulled over to a parking lot and shut it off.. Waited 2 minutes.. turned it back on and everything was normal... I drove home and everything fine. I have not driven it since last sunday. I suspect the problem is one of those pressure control solenoids or a solenoid switch.. supposedly they can get dirty...
So I was reading the Helm troubleshooting manual and it says that "engine Flare" between shifts, can be a result of bad solenoids. Or hard shifting also.
I'm not sure I'd go so far as to take the filter out and not change it. If this is purely because of a risk of getting clogged then I think that effort is probably not necessary. The reason why I think this is because with your increased fluid change intervals to feel it stays cleaner all the time. I don't believe this is a sort of filter that is actively filtering the fluid in the same way that an air filter is meant to filter all the air and oil filters filter crap out of the oil. Fluid in the transmission isn't subject to having debris introduced all the time. Case in point, old transmission fluid isn't thick and chunky, it's a darker ugly color.
Debris in the fluid is coming from wearing clutches. By changing the fluid more often you are not only keeping the fluid cleaner but you are keeping the internal parts fresh. This is the reason that I like to recommend 15k mile changes. traditionally this is what Honda always recommended on their 90s cars. Service intervals only started getting longer to compete with other car brands claiming "lifetime fluid" and other long or impossible intervals (presumably to attract fleets).
Also yes the pressure switch changes get universal praise from everybody that we sell them to. We put together kits for pressure switch is a while back and people are continually buying them. We also have drain and fill and 3 by 3 drain a change kits with Honda recommended dw1 fluid. shop on heel toe for some of these items and let me know if you have any trouble finding anything!
I'll finish off by saying that 3rd gen and 4th gen TL transmissions in our estimation have not been unreliable. You're always going to find somebody who's got transmission problems with any car, but that doesn't make it a "known issue" any more that worn out tires are. Same cannot be said for 2g TL though!
I'm not sure if you have experienced this, but my TL has 96k miles. (under 100k) I was driving home last Sunday afternoon, and I was on the highway, and I got on it, and it downshifted to 2nd gear and it would not Upshift.. So I did like 6000 rpm and got off the highway at the next exit.. And as I slowed down the engine wound down and it shifted into first at the stop light, normally... So I pulled over to a parking lot and shut it off.. Waited 2 minutes.. turned it back on and everything was normal... I drove home and everything fine. I have not driven it since last sunday. I suspect the problem is one of those pressure control solenoids or a solenoid switch.. supposedly they can get dirty...
So I was reading the Helm troubleshooting manual and it says that "engine Flare" between shifts, can be a result of bad solenoids. Or hard shifting also.
Sounds more like a pressure switch issue. If it was slipping and revving with no acceleration than the clutch packs are not engaging.
Thanks for the reply, but you didn't really say anything that makes me think I need to leave the filter in or replace it with a new one.. The newer models have no filter from what I hear. And my TL already has clean transmission fluid as I have done every 3 quart drain and fills.. So I just have to "maintain" at this juncture. The Honda tech said twice to me, "Honda does not have a recommendation to change it". He was trying to tell me that it is not needed. So, in my opinion if I can leave a dirty filter installed and have no effect, then why even have one? haha I dont think it effects squat diddly. So I guess you can ask "why even bother taking it out"? Well.. because... haha
Originally Posted by MrHeeltoe
I'm not sure I'd go so far as to take the filter out and not change it. If this is purely because of a risk of getting clogged then I think that effort is probably not necessary. The reason why I think this is because with your increased fluid change intervals to feel it stays cleaner all the time. I don't believe this is a sort of filter that is actively filtering the fluid in the same way that an air filter is meant to filter all the air and oil filters filter crap out of the oil. Fluid in the transmission isn't subject to having debris introduced all the time. Case in point, old transmission fluid isn't thick and chunky, it's a darker ugly color.
Debris in the fluid is coming from wearing clutches. By changing the fluid more often you are not only keeping the fluid cleaner but you are keeping the internal parts fresh. This is the reason that I like to recommend 15k mile changes. traditionally this is what Honda always recommended on their 90s cars. Service intervals only started getting longer to compete with other car brands claiming "lifetime fluid" and other long or impossible intervals (presumably to attract fleets).
Also yes the pressure switch changes get universal praise from everybody that we sell them to. We put together kits for pressure switch is a while back and people are continually buying them. We also have drain and fill and 3 by 3 drain a change kits with Honda recommended dw1 fluid. shop on heel toe for some of these items and let me know if you have any trouble finding anything!
I'll finish off by saying that 3rd gen and 4th gen TL transmissions in our estimation have not been unreliable. You're always going to find somebody who's got transmission problems with any car, but that doesn't make it a "known issue" any more that worn out tires are. Same cannot be said for 2g TL though!
The filter is on top. Its not exactly "cracking the case".. It would be easy to make it all 1 project. Pull the filter and replace the solenoids.
Included solenoid troublshooting guide to help identify which solenoid needs to be replaced.. But my theory is, when 1 starts to go.. best to do them all. And they can be acquired cheaply on ebay.
The SHIFT solenoids might be safer to buy from 3rd party rather than the "pressure control solenoid valve C" because it may not be exactly an "on/off switch" like the "shift valve solenoids".. but i;m only guess.. It may be safe to buy all of it on ebay. It depends on specs of the device. Some aftermarket is not good. even a control arm. (ask me how I know)
Originally Posted by nfnsquared
If you're willing to go to the trouble of cracking the case to remove the filter, I say go for it...
one thing I did notice when I first attempted to change the filter is that there are 1 or 2 tiny tubes near the Cap that holds the filter. So, I steered away from changing it. Although others have changed that filter.. I do not know how they did it without bending those tubes. I think they are metal tubes, so bending them is not good especially if there is fluid or air pressure in there.. because kinking those tubes would damage them.. I mean the small tubes like a pencil tip. So I didnt bother with this.. That would be my only limiter
I am not trying to convince anyone not to take out the filter, it just seems like an unnecessary and irrelevant action, and one that carries it's own set of risks that FAR outweigh any potential benefit.
These cars are more than 10 years old now. The filter isn't a problem. Keeping fluid clean is the thing to do. Pressure switches are a great idea:
Oh ok so the 07 does have a filter. I knew something was different about it...
either way, I think a filter delete is not any more risky than a dirty filter.
just my 2 cents.
that said, a filter delete on a GM turbo 350 transmission probably is not a good idea because of the type of filter it is. If you notice on the acura filter, the fluid goes into that chamber where the filter is and flows through the filter then to the rest.. if there is no filter, then it would just flow into the chamber and then to the rest. There is no mounting changes of the pan or screw hole tension like on the turbo 350.. The acura filter is more autonomous.. its separate from the pan.. etc.. so I think the acura would be ok without the filter.. or worse, a dirty filter. Haha
anyway.. I just drove my car and it's running fine. Shifting works fine. So, Must be something about the solenoids and the right "condition" .. or just time to replace or clean the solenoids.. or the computer freaked out and read s ok nothing wrong, and then in that case nothing wrong with solenoids dont know..
I saw the shift solenoids today... Some pics for your viewing pleasure... It would be easier to remove the water hoses if you plan on draining your radiator fluid any time. And it would be more accessible to remove the starter. That is a new starter I put on this car a few years ago. So I am done it before. Just depends on how motivated I get and how bad the situation becomes. haha
01-28-2017, 09:19 AM
