Testing Honda's new DW-1 A/T fluid.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 75
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From: Monroe, Ohio
Testing Honda's new DW-1 A/T fluid.
Here's the rundown.
I'm a Honda Master Technician by trade, and very familiar with Honda's Shudder/Judder Problems in V6 auto transmissions. So in my world you replace to torque converter and thats that. Although as most of us know they're other ways of curing this problem. Most go with Dex-III of Type-F as fluid choices, but after some research i decided to try out honda's new DW-1.
Test vehicle:
2004 TL Base w/Navi with 82,721 miles.
I had recently noticed the judder rearing its ugly head on my TL. The normal light throttle at 40mph or so. Which was disheartening. I know most will change out 3rd/4th pressure switches or trans filters but i wanted to start with the cheapest option first, a simple drain and fill.
The fluid retails at my store for around $8.30.
So i performed the service. let the trans warm up and can say i have 100+miles already since the fluid change on thursday the 25th and have not had any judder at all.
i have exhausted every scenario in which the judder was occuring and have yet to have a judder.
The next step will b e changing out the trans filter. i'm going to give it a couple thouand miles before I change the filter to see how resilient the dw-1 is solely with a fluid change.
one thing i noticed is that the DW-1 is very similar to DEX-III, in look, smell, and texture. as soon as i can get a breakdown of the DW-1 I can get a comparison, make-up wise between the more popular options.
I'm a Honda Master Technician by trade, and very familiar with Honda's Shudder/Judder Problems in V6 auto transmissions. So in my world you replace to torque converter and thats that. Although as most of us know they're other ways of curing this problem. Most go with Dex-III of Type-F as fluid choices, but after some research i decided to try out honda's new DW-1.
Test vehicle:
2004 TL Base w/Navi with 82,721 miles.
I had recently noticed the judder rearing its ugly head on my TL. The normal light throttle at 40mph or so. Which was disheartening. I know most will change out 3rd/4th pressure switches or trans filters but i wanted to start with the cheapest option first, a simple drain and fill.
The fluid retails at my store for around $8.30.
So i performed the service. let the trans warm up and can say i have 100+miles already since the fluid change on thursday the 25th and have not had any judder at all.
i have exhausted every scenario in which the judder was occuring and have yet to have a judder.
The next step will b e changing out the trans filter. i'm going to give it a couple thouand miles before I change the filter to see how resilient the dw-1 is solely with a fluid change.
one thing i noticed is that the DW-1 is very similar to DEX-III, in look, smell, and texture. as soon as i can get a breakdown of the DW-1 I can get a comparison, make-up wise between the more popular options.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,818
From: Bakersfield
Looking forward to the long term results, especially since you car occasionally shuddered. I sincerely hope this fixes the problem.
Guitarplayer- Honda hasn't released much about this fluid. It seems to be similar to Dextron VI. Thinner but with a better base oil. I can only guess based on the limited facts I've seen but the level of FM should be similar to DexIII and VI. That would equate to D4 or Amsoil "ATF" and most "universal" fluids, a definite step up from Z1. Type F has no FM, this fluid most definitely has a healthy dose.
Guitarplayer- Honda hasn't released much about this fluid. It seems to be similar to Dextron VI. Thinner but with a better base oil. I can only guess based on the limited facts I've seen but the level of FM should be similar to DexIII and VI. That would equate to D4 or Amsoil "ATF" and most "universal" fluids, a definite step up from Z1. Type F has no FM, this fluid most definitely has a healthy dose.
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Advanced
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 75
Likes: 24
From: Monroe, Ohio
I'm going to contact one of my Instructors at the Honda Training Center in Troy, Ohio to see if he can leak me some more information on the DW-1.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,818
From: Bakersfield
Well, first let me start off saying I'm not here to say what is better and why. I will say the truth in what I felt compared to 3 fluids that I've tried.
1st time- 3x3 with Amsoil (regular synthetic) and the car shifted the same at 88k miles. No real noticeable difference. I also did the pressure switch changes and no difference at all.
2nd time- After reading all the reviews and raves, I did another 3x3 with Redline Type F. Initially the car started shifting firm, solid shifts, especially in the higher rpms, but for daily driving and such, I experienced lunges where the car would shift and shock me while shifting into the next gear because it was so firm. I was even hearing a hard thump after the gear has shifted on occasions, like rpms would rise, then shift, but after the shift I hear a hard thump which didn't sound good. Drove for about 5k miles on this and started to get on my nerves, and worrying about the firmer shifts might be causing damage, especially with that thump on occasion.
3rd time (today)- Did a 1x3 3 days ago and have drive a few hundred miles since, did this with dw1 and it definitely shifted smoother and that occasional thump was less noticeable, then today I did another 1x3 making a total of 2x3 along with the pressure switches and now the car shifts nice and smooth, no more thumps and no more issues with firm shifts, lunges and all that. I will note however, I've had the pressure switches replaced twice in under 10k miles because I am that anal with my car! When I compared the switches, both pairs looked the same, but the numbers on the side of the switch were different. I.e- xxxyyyxx vs. xxxabcxx. Only difference was the middle set of numbers, don't know if this had any difference, maybe a batch number?
All I can say is that redline works for others and some have had issues caused after it but other factors can be involved not caused by the fluid. I know that it did make my car shift harder and firmer because all this went away after a couple drain and fill with dw1 (I don't think it was the switches because I had them new with the type f and still shifted firm and abrupt). I know I may get bashed for not sticking with redline but that "thump" noise like the clutch packs catching hard seemed to bother me, and the uncomfortable shifts in daily driving. Overall my dw1 fluid and pressure switch (which I doubt are the switches because they had less than a few thousand miles on them) have caused shifts to be pretty solid and quick but without much abruptness and that occasional thump.
1st time- 3x3 with Amsoil (regular synthetic) and the car shifted the same at 88k miles. No real noticeable difference. I also did the pressure switch changes and no difference at all.
2nd time- After reading all the reviews and raves, I did another 3x3 with Redline Type F. Initially the car started shifting firm, solid shifts, especially in the higher rpms, but for daily driving and such, I experienced lunges where the car would shift and shock me while shifting into the next gear because it was so firm. I was even hearing a hard thump after the gear has shifted on occasions, like rpms would rise, then shift, but after the shift I hear a hard thump which didn't sound good. Drove for about 5k miles on this and started to get on my nerves, and worrying about the firmer shifts might be causing damage, especially with that thump on occasion.
3rd time (today)- Did a 1x3 3 days ago and have drive a few hundred miles since, did this with dw1 and it definitely shifted smoother and that occasional thump was less noticeable, then today I did another 1x3 making a total of 2x3 along with the pressure switches and now the car shifts nice and smooth, no more thumps and no more issues with firm shifts, lunges and all that. I will note however, I've had the pressure switches replaced twice in under 10k miles because I am that anal with my car! When I compared the switches, both pairs looked the same, but the numbers on the side of the switch were different. I.e- xxxyyyxx vs. xxxabcxx. Only difference was the middle set of numbers, don't know if this had any difference, maybe a batch number?
All I can say is that redline works for others and some have had issues caused after it but other factors can be involved not caused by the fluid. I know that it did make my car shift harder and firmer because all this went away after a couple drain and fill with dw1 (I don't think it was the switches because I had them new with the type f and still shifted firm and abrupt). I know I may get bashed for not sticking with redline but that "thump" noise like the clutch packs catching hard seemed to bother me, and the uncomfortable shifts in daily driving. Overall my dw1 fluid and pressure switch (which I doubt are the switches because they had less than a few thousand miles on them) have caused shifts to be pretty solid and quick but without much abruptness and that occasional thump.
Basically you have an unidentified thump. "Clutch packs catching hard" is not possible. You can't hear the clutch packs, and the fluid does not influence how quickly they apply, only their friction charicteristics.
The thump continued with the DW-1 but not as bad. It wasn't until you replaced the already new switches that it went completely away. You either had the wrong switches or you had them in the wrong hole.
There's a very good chance a broken mount is the noise you're hearing. You don't just have a hundred people with super smooth shifting on the Type-F and one guy with with a noise and harsh shifting.
If you're interested in truly testing the fluid, fix the issues with the car and put the Type-F back in now that you have the new switches. You can't condemn a fluid when there are other problems with your car.
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