surge21

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Hey guys what's going on? I have an 04 TL AT and I'm having an issue with my steering that's been driving me nuts! My steering wheel started shaking while I was driving a while ago and progressively keeps getting worse. I took it to the dealership as I had a warranty and they said there was something wrong with the rack and pinion. Since the warranty was a third party warranty they had an inspector come out and he said that since I had aftermarket wheels that they were the cause of the bad rack and pinion (which is total bs because they haven't been on more than a couple months and the shaking was going on before that) and they said they wouldn't cover it. I ended up finding a rack and pinion from a TL with 50k miles and took it to my regular mechanic who is the only one (other then the dealership when the car was under warranty) who I let work on my cars. He lifted the car and started working on it and immediately told me that the rack and pinion from my car was totally fine but that the control arms were broken and they needed to be replaced asap. I took a look at them and we both were in disbelief that the dealership didn't see that. I returned the rack and pinion and bought the control arms and we got them changed. That helped somewhat and the steering feels more solid (if that makes sense) but the shaking is still there. We put the wheels from the back on the front and then today I got them balanced and the shaking is STILL there. I'm so frustrated right now because neither of us (me and my mechanic) can't figure out what it could be. The last idea he had was that maybe there was something wrong with the cv axle joint or something to that extent. Do you guys have any idea what it could be? I've just had to spend a ton of money on this already and I'm so frustrated because I love this car so much =(

Side note: It's not that bad during 0-20 mph but it gets progressively worse and when on the highway its really bad. Hope that helps-

surge21

iTrader: (1)

Also...While they didn't change my rack and pinion before my warranty expired, they did change the motor mounts. I don't know if that makes a difference but just thought I'd add that. The wheels and tires are still relatively new as well, I'd say like 6 months old.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Aftermarket wheels have the hub rings? Correct lug nuts?

ajs800

iTrader: (1)

i am dealing with the same issue with my 06. I am planning to have my motor mounts (front one is shot) replaced and more than likely the axles. if this doesn't take care of it, i may be forced into trading it in for something else. It seems that axle replacements are very common with these cars, even ones with low miles.

surge21

iTrader: (1)

No hub rings, but I didn't think of changing the lug nuts...That's a good idea. Lol hopefully that helps. It's not just the steering wheel that is vibrating I can feel it in the entire car it's really annoying. Good idea I'll try changin the lugs...

Man honestly I've changed my motor mounts, my hub, my control arms, balanced and aligned my wheels and the only thing left is to mess with the axles. I'm contemplating trading it in too...seems like a few other people on the forum with the same issues ended up doing the same thing. Hopefully it doesn't come to that!

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

If it vibrates through the wheel and seats, it's not the axles. Also the axles go though hubs and won't cause a vibration as you are experiencing. Install hub rings and as far as lug nuts, they must be of the design required by the wheel.
After this, balance, balance, balance. Don't be fooled by the balancing machine. After they balance the wheel, have them turn the wheel 180 degrees, retighten, respin and see if the wheel is still in balance. Do it with all 4.

ajs800

iTrader: (1)

if the axles were shot or warped, why wouldn't the vibration be felt throughout the entire car? Mine is primarily through the steering wheel, but at times you can feel it throughout the entire car. Mine feels like a typical bent or out of balance wheel, but i know it's not. i have a wobble feel when making turns (while accelerating) as well which two dealers have noticed but have no answer. It's frustrating as ever and has been my only complaint with the car.

Does the steering rack have replaceable bushings? I am wondering if mine is related to the steering rack.


.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Similar to the front tires when they are out of balance, the vibration is felt in the front half of the car, primarily the steering wheel because the tie rod ends are connected to the spindle.
If the rear wheels were out of balance, the vibration would be felt in the seats.

Vibrations are terribly difficult to pinpoint, but in my experience most vibrations are typical wheel balance problems, especially when in the 60-75 mph range. Got to check everything out, wheel runount, both axial and radial, suspension components, tires, etc.

Just a side bar-Years ago I jacked up the rear of our modified RX7 Turbo, removed the wheels and installed new tires. After taking the car for a drive there was a vibration from the rear in the 50-60 mph range and to say the laest, I was quite annoyed. Took them back to the shop and they were dead on, then took them to another shop and they were fine. Even took the wheels off my other 91 Turbo I have in the garage to give them a try. Same thing, vibration 50-60, so not wheels/tires. Checked the driveshaft, all rear suspension components and found nothing. Trans mounts were new so they wouldn't be the cause. After some long and agonizing meditation, I decided to pull the motor mounts and the right front was split letting the engine cock ever so slightly. Evidently when the car was raised in the rear, the weight of the drivetrain was forced forward and with the weak mount, it aplit. Replaced both with Mazda Comp mounts and its been fine ever since.

Just keep after it.

ajs800

iTrader: (1)

based on what I've said, do you think it's more likely that it's my axles or steering rack? I don't have any of the typical clicking noises from the front end and i don't have any noises coming from the steering system either. what would be the obvious signs that would point towards the steering rack?

I would say that the vibrations are not felt in the seat but mainly the steering wheel. however, the vibration is strong enough it can be felt when touching the doors, dash, and other interior areas at higher speeds.

Thanks for the info.

surge21

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the advice...I had my oem wheels that had the same issue and I had them balanced a few times with no avail...these wheels are newer and I got them balanced out yesterday...I wish I had a lifetime balancing like I do my alignment, that way I'd be able to go back and get it done over and over like you're suggesting. Being a college student I'm kinda running out of money to get this fixed so I'm gonna try the lug nuts out and if not then I'm out of resources lol. I'll get my alignment done again tomorrow and go back to that same shop I got the balancing done at yesterday and see if they'll do it again for me, hopefully that works. I really appreciate the help man!

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Just ask them to do 1 of the wheels for a test, and the alignment isn't going to cause the vibration unless the tires are worn unevenly and then the alignment specs were corrected.
Like was mentioned earlier, the correct lug nuts must be used along with the hub rings.

surge21

iTrader: (1)

Okay so I got a flat yesterday (joy), but it was really strange because after I put the flat on I realized it was vibrating less. Me and my friend took the front drivers wheel off and put the car up on a jack and I put it in drive to see if there was anything wrong with the disk...BINGO! The disk and caliper were literally moving a little back and forth, which would cause the wheel to do the same, causing a shaking/vibration in the steering. I'm going to replace both of the discs and see if that solves the problem! God willing, this will take care of the issue.

Riga89

First off, what year is your TL. It would really help the "experts" on here if they had that piece of information. Another thing, I hope you're using OEM Acura Parts when you are doing your maintenance (control arms, etc...). This has been a common issue to A LOT of TLs that I have seen on this site. The most common issue is that your rims are bent. This was the case with me (2 bent rims) and about 50 other members. I'm glad that your search to correct your vibration issue (which is probably happening when you hit <55mph) has led you to correct other problems that could potentially be hazardous down the road. Remember with OEM parts you can't lose. Here is a site where I buy like 90% of my OEM parts from: www.acuraoemparts.com. Way cheaper than your dealer and no tax (if you live outside of FL) and very good shipping rates.

Give us an update on your progress toward correcting this vibration issue as it has been coming up frequently within the last couple of months.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

How did you check the rotor runout, with the wheel off? If so, does the rotor still have the attachment screws in place or did you stabilize the rotor by placing lug nuts over the studs to hold the rotor tight before viewing the movement?

surge21

iTrader: (1)

Haha sorry about that! I have a 2004 TL. I am using OEM parts for everything I've changed lol so that's a good thing. Yeah The wheels could possibly be bent (I hope not) but we'll definitely see what's up with those after I get the rotors changed up! Thanks for the help

Well I had the front drivers wheel off and the car was jacked up a bit and the passenger wheel was still on the ground. I had the E-brake on and put the car in drive and just barely tapped the gas and my buddy was outside watching the rotation/movement of the rotor. We had initially done this with the wheel on when the car was on the jack and noticed that the wheel was moving laterally very slightly. Then we tried it with the wheel off. If you were sitting right in front of the wheel (like in front of the drivers headlight) looking at the bottom of the rotor, you could see that it was moving a little sideways back and forth (caliper and all...it was slight but easily noticeable). We then put that wheel back on and tried the same thing on the passenger side and the rotor was completely straight with no movement as it spun. I hope that makes sense? I'm ordering new rotors/brake discs right now and when I take the wheels off again I'll try to upload a video to show you exactly what I'm talking about.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Where I was going is that the rotor doesn't keep the wheel true, it's the hub assembly. You could have a rotor that is out, but the wheel would still stay true as it it bolted to the hub, not the rotor. The rotor needs to be secured to the hub tightly for the test to be initiated.

surge21

iTrader: (1)

Oh wow I didn't think of that! Good call! I think I'll go ahead and order a set of rotors and one hub assembly as well (because the right side seems like its fine). This may sound like a noob question but will I have to remove the hub I have currently in the car and put it in the new assembly or does the assembly already include the hub in it? I know it was a royal PITA for my friend to get the press and change the original hub out to replace it a few months ago, so I'm just curious. Thanks!-

surge21

iTrader: (1)

Edit: I'm gonna make sure that the rotor and hub are firmly tightened and do the test again and then if the problem still occurs then I'll order the assembly as well

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

With the wheel assembly in the air, ignition off lock position, just try and wiggle the tire assembly when held at 12/6 then at 3/9 o'clock position. If there is no movement, good hub and steering.

nfnsquared

With the wheel off, the only thing holding the rotors on is the rotor retaining screws. If the screws had been drilled out during a previous rotor removal and not replaced (it's not required to replace them), then the rotor is free to move when the wheel is off (although most of the time the rotor becomes "friction welded" to the hub after a time).

How many miles do the rotor have on them? A competent brake shop can check rotor run out and measure remaining rotor thickness for you, probably at no charge.