SHINDIG

My apologies if this is a repost. I did do a search, but found a lot of the discussion either too technical and beyond my understanding, or not answering more specific questions I have.

In any event, thanks in advance to anyone reading and responding to this post.

I have a 2007 TL-S I bought with 36K miles on it. Odometer now reads 65K. I was with a buddy and decided to engage in some "spirited" driving. When I downshifted, we noted that at higher RPMs the engine wasn't accelerating the car. My buddy said my clutch was slipping, a fact we again verified while attempting to accelerate up a hill, and further stated that it's early for this to be happening. Regular, "non-spirited" driving is just fine - I can't tell there's anything wrong with the car.

In terms of my driving background, I have been driving manuals since I was 16, and I read VERY CLOSELY and have been applying Southern Boy's suggestions for driving manual transmission cars. I always rev-match when downshifting where there will be a jump in RPMs and double-clutch. I never ride the clutch, and adhere to the general rule that my foot should spend as LITTLE time on the clutch as possible. The buddy in my car (a mechanical engineer who has worked on cars and motorcycles) said my shifting "technique" is just fine. To top it all off, I use my car to commute 30 mostly highway miles with only four stoplights/signs along the way, i.e. not a lot of stop and go.

I have read the posts regarding pressure plates and master slave cylinders(?), but still would like to have the following questions answered:

(1) What gives? My car has relatively low miles, I generally baby it, have no problems driving the car normally, and have been utilizing every reasonable technique on Acurazine to extend the lift of my clutch. Any thoughts as to what the problem is would be greatly appreciated.

(2) Assuming a question to Question 1, can it be covered under warranty?

(3) Assuming a "no" to Question 2, how much does it usually cost to fix the problem?

(4) Was this a problem I created, or the prior owners?

(5) Generally, was there anything else I could have done to avoid this problem?

(6) If the cost to repair is somewhat high, is it OK for me to continue driving the car (without the spirited driving)?

(7) When should I get the repairs done, i.e. what signs should I be looking for?

(8) Finally, and this is just out of sheer laziness, but while I have your attention, is there any regular maintenance I should be doing at 65K miles?

Thank again. Acurazine and all the members who contribute (and put up with questions from newbs like me) ROCKS.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

:ibsouthernboy:

SHINDIG

I don't know how to PM people. I checked Southernboy's page, but saw no link to leaving him a message.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

i'll try to direct him here.

but it sounds like the previous owner didnt know how to utilize the clutch very well.
#2. no, since its a wear and tear item, ACURA will not cover this.
#3.i just replaced my clutch 11/05/2010. bought the clutch set for $250 on acuraoemparts.com then had a local mechanic install it for ~$400. all together around 700.
4) if you say you know how to drive, then most likely previous owner. In my case, combination of previous owner, test drivers and myself learning how to operate the clutch.

6 if you can resist spirited driving , but you're still causing slip and would make it worse down the line....
7. when your clutch finally goes, you'll get major slippage, wont be able to drive.

SouthernBoy

It sounds like you're aware of things that are/may be going wrong and I agree with justnspace that from your description of your awareness and techniques, it is most likely the prior owner's abuse that has caused a premature wearing of your clutch to the point of slipping.

You said you did the hill test for slippage so you should have immediately noticed that the RPM's ran up quicker than the car was accelerating. If this is what happened, your clutch is definitely slipping. The thing is with our cars, the pressure plate is self-adjusting and will compensate for friction disk wear up to the point of near failure. That is probably where you are now.

However, there is one question I have that might help give an answer to this. You mentioned that this took place during/after spirited driving. What happens under normal driving conditions? Have you tested under these conditions? Try your hill test after just driving normally and see what happens.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

What would cause slippage under spirited driving conditions.

I am FI and if I am casually going along in 2nd gear and nail it while the turbo is spooled, I will easily break traction.

If I get into it from a standstill, it will slip like crazy 1-2 and 2-3. At that point I back out. Then it's fine for normal driving.

I haven't tried the hill test but I find it odd that it only happens in certain situations. My previous experience it didn't matter. Slipped most of the time before it was replaced.

I am going to be replacing my clutch with something different but was just curious what was happening.

SouthernBoy

Well not only spirited conditions but very poor operating techniques such as holding the car on a hill with the clutch, "playing" the clutch at a stop (rocking back and forth), and improper downshifting are the main goblins with normal driving. As for spirited driving, power shifting, very aggressive speed shifting, a lot of hard launches while riding the clutch to control traction... those are primary factors. And of course towing can be a factor but I imagine that was not the case with the prior owner.


"If I get into it from a standstill, it will slip like crazy 1-2 and 2-3."

Does this occur from a roll with the clutch fully engaged? If so, your clutch is ending its life.


"I haven't tried the hill test but I find it odd that it only happens in certain situations. My previous experience it didn't matter. Slipped most of the time before it was replaced."

And that is generally true in most all cases. However, our clutches are a little different in that they have an engagement delay valve (check valve) that restricts rapid engagement under aggressive shifting. This valve has been know to cause problems which can manifest themselves as clutch slip.

SHINDIG

First, thanks to all who have posted. Greatly appreciated!

To answer the question, I live in Maryland and have plenty of hills/small mountains to go up and down, particularly on my 30-mile commute into work. Absolutely no problems I can tell under normal driving conditions. It's only when I gun it that the clutch really slips.

Also, thanks Justnspace for the guidance on where to buy replacement parts and a decent price to get the work done. Thankfully, it's not as bad as I originally thought.

SouthernBoy

Ok, if the problem is not occurring under normal driving conditions, and you do the hill test after having driven the car normally and it does not happen, then I would suspect low or dirty hydraulic fluid, failing check valve, or perhaps a faulty master cylinder (in no particular order). If a clutch has reached the point of slipping, it is going to slip regardless of how you drive your car.

Let us know how it turns out.

I hate cars

IMO, the best thing you can do is avoid heavy power until the clutch is fully engaged. For example on my old '87 Celica 5 speed I rolled out at nearly idle and once the clutch was engaged I applied power. At 220,000 miles the clutch was still fine.

Shifting techniques have a large impact as Southern Boy and others have stated. You can shift very quick but if you're getting on the throttle just a hair too soon you're still causing slip. Try getting on the throttle a few miliseconds later on shifts after the clutch is fully engaged.

But as to why it's slipping, it could easily be the first owner. 30,000 miles of previous ownership is more than enough to wear it to the point of slipping. I've seen guys kill a new clutch in 5 passes at the strip. All it takes is a short time with bad technique and especially if it's being run hard.

SouthernBoy

And that's a shame. Back in the heyday of American supercars (mid-60's), it was quite common to see those machines make hundreds of passes with hard launches and power shifting down the track. Then put their street tires back on, cap the headers, and drive home. Of course, those cars were made of sterner stuff.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

From a roll no. Off the line yes. If I go off the line and it slips, if I back out then get back on it, it holds. All done while quickly releasing the clutch.

I don't have the valve any longer but it sure acts like it did when I had it.

This all within 25K. I planned on going with a solid lightweight flywheel and probably the dual disc setup that Rodney has as long as the engagement isn't too harsh, but I was just curious. I'll see more once I have the tranny out.

SHINDIG

Thanks again for all the help and guidance. I am a firm believer that knowledge is power, particularly before you take your car in for repairs at the dealership. If you sound like you know what you're talking about, they're less likely to rape you.

That said, the Acura dealership is a bit far from where I work/live. Is this something my local Honda dealer may be able to address?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

call and find out.

SouthernBoy

Amen to that.

There is a reasonable chance that they might. As the prior poster said, try giving them a call and see what they have to say.