Spree

Hey guys, I posted this last week and for some reason, it didn’t show up. I think there was some maintenance being done on the server or something, so here’s my second attempt at telling the story:

I just bought an ’08 TL-S on the last day of October. Since then, the car’s been back to the dealer 3x for a total of 5 days. I first took it back to them because of 3 things: the alignment was completely wacked, the rear bumper was popped out (where it wrapped around to the side above the wheel well), and there were 3 annoying rattles. They “fixed” the alignment (which was as it turns out way off), ordered some parts for the bumper and told me to come back for the rattles because they’d need the car the whole day and they’ll need to set me up with a loaner. Ok, so I drive home, only to realize that the alignment was still off!!! I took it back when they got the parts for the bumper, and had them check out the alignment and the rattles. They fixed the bumper (cool), they only “found” 2 out of the 3 rattles – fine. They also said there was nothing wrong with the alignment. I was like ok, fine. I drive home and the rattles are all still there!! Not only that but 2 have become noticeably louder!!!!

Took it back the 3rd time and they kept the car for 3 days this time!!!! They fixed the one rattle in the center console (the carbon fiber side trim was messed up so they got a new one), fixed the one by the door (driver’s side curtain airbag area) and they couldn’t find the one by the steering wheel. Drives me nuts because that’s the loudest one!!! Wth is wrong with these people. They left me a message telling me that my keychain was the one making a noise!! I was like wtf??? Do you really think I’m stupid enough to not realize that it’s not the keychain you dumb asses??

Anyway sorry for the rant, but needless to say, I’m very, very disappointed in the car. I traded in my ’03 BMW M3 for this and I’m really, really starting to regret it. No offense whatsoever to anyone here, but I should have kept the M. The Acura’s a really cool car, with all its gadgets and stuff, but these little things are driving me crazy!! I’ll admit, the M3 did start to rattle in the last year that I owned it, but I guess I was expecting more from a new Acura. I’m starting to think I should have either kept the BMW or bought a Lexus (prob. an IS 350).

I’m really wondering if I could return the car somehow! Lol, or maybe just sell it. What do you guys think? I know that the car itself (like engine, transmission, etc…) will probably be completely trouble free, but I wonder if the little things are going to fall apart. I somehow don’t trust Acura as much as say Lexus. Also, the fact that this car is made in Ohio doesn’t help matters. No offense to any residents of the great state of OH, but I think it’s a safe bet to say that Japanese made cars are usually in better shape than their American counterparts. That’s my opinion anyway, could be wrong on that.

Anyway, great forum you guys have here! At least if I keep the car, I can come here and check things out!

Later,

B

Bearcat94

Sorry for the bad luck/bad build. Seems like most TL's are OK, but a few are a major PITA.

Anyhow (and not trying to be an ass), you should have had a test drive before accepting delivery. That *might* have turned up a couple of problems before you took the car. Regardless, maybe a lesson for next time.

Unfortunately, I don't think you get to decide whether your car is "returnable" or a lemon. You have to meet the requirement of the Lemon Law in your state. In general, the problems must diminish the value and/or safety of the car in addition to the requirement or number of repairs/number of days out of service. Rattles might not qualify, although, IMO, the alignment would.

Google "Lemon Law 'YourState'" to find the requirements where you live, then study up. Maybe get a couple of the free legal "consultations" as well. At least you'll get an idea of whether or not you've got a chance.

teomcdohl

Hm. Sorry to hear of your troubles. You might want to take it to another dealer shop for the other rattle and the alignment. Maybe they would be able to fix it. Sorry to hear that you're having so many problems with the car. Anyway, thats just my advice. You should really raise hell until they fix the problem - you are paying them, or its under warranty, it should be fixed. Either way, good luck.

Keanu's mrs. T

I agree take it to another dealer if possible, we had unresolved issues that were fixed by another dealer. It seems very odd to see such a disparity with workmanship among dealers but it's surely evident. Our TL had about a half dozen visits in it's early life due to inadequate technicians. For a time there I almost regretted the purchase but after plenty cups of starbucks and Acura concierge we held out and our TL has never had a problem since. Good luck and hold on to your gem, not many other cars out there can match the plethora of standard features without forking over your first born.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

If you don't trust the dealer to fix the rattles in a manner sufficient to your liking, you can always utilize the DIY rattle fixes found on this forum.

The 3G Garage has all this info. Good luck.

Spree

Thanks guys. I really apreciate the advice.

Bearcat, yes, you're absolutely right, I should have test driven the car before purchasing. I obviously test drove one, but it wasn't the actual one I was buying. Anyway, lesson learned

I hope my original post didn't sound like I was bashing the car. I really wasn't. I think they did a great job overall considering how many things (gadgets, electronics, moving parts, etc...) are in modern cars these days. I just wished they would have made more of an effort to line things up better.

Anyhoo, thanks again.

Spree

I will be definitely resorting to that if they can't fix the rattles!

teomcdohl

Oh yeah, and if no one said this already - welcome to the board. Awesome people here, I haven't been here that long but I find myself on this board every day either lurking or posting my own

TwinTurbo335

once u go german you cant go back..

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

My cousin purchased new a 2001 M3 and the engine let go @ 4,500 miles, and the rattles, or vibration in the exhaust were so annoying that the dealer in fact replaced the exhaust but never eliminated the problem. His wife had a 2003 Mercedes that was in maybe 8/10 times for radio problems that they could never fix. Actually Mercedes quality has diminished rapidly over the years.
So much for German engineering.

To OP:
The problems are annoying, but minor. Give 'em a few tries to do the correction as it may take time to isolate the noise.

Curious as to how you know, or might feel that the alignment is out of spec?

S PAW 1

I, for one,WON'T GO BACK!

I also don't think the OP's statement of being American made is of less quality than Japanese made. I am on my fourth Acura, three of which were made in Ohio, with total miles driven around 360,000. Only prob was the tranny failure in the "01. Haven't even changed a light bulb, yet.
On to topic at hand,
The OP sounds as if he may have gotten hold of one abused '08. Abused by the dealer, maybe. Were there any miles on the car when you bought it? This is a rare case, indeed! I would definately get Acura Customer Service involved soon, if the Service Manager at the dealership doesn't help IMO.

KJSmitty

Spree,
Welcome!

Rattles can be a pain in the butt for any mechanic/tech, no matter how good they are. The major problem with rattles is a tech could spend 3 hrs fixing one yet only get paid 1hr. When it comes to warranty and rattles, the manufacturers just don't cover the amount of time some take to find etc.. Bottom line, due to this the dealerships have to get creative on documenting the hrs but overall hate rattles as much as the car owner... Just stay on them.
- Then again, I'm also a firm believer if they built it right to begin with they wouldn't have to spend millions fixing the damn rattles!!


Alignment: If they have the alignment within specs and it still pulls, the next thing they/you should be trying is swapping the left front tire to the right and visa verse. Many times a tire with belt issues will result in a significant pull. I don't even know if the tires are directional on the 08 TL-S but bottom line they should be moving them around to see if the pulling stops.

As mentioned above, always a good thing to thoroughly test drive the actual car you're taking home. Don't get me wrong, I'm guilty of not doing this as well. Ended up in a very similar predicament where 4 months after I drove it home Nissan was taking it back... Truly 4 months of massive PITA!!


Hope everything works out for you and your TL. The TL's a great car, but they (as do most), will have a few annoying issues.

Keep us posted along your "journey".

Ernie Golfs

I agree with S Paw 1. Call Acura customer Service and get a case going with this dealership. Your are wasting your time talking to the service people over and over.

JimmyDee

To some extent... I would agree with this statement.

I've owned a couple of Volkswagen's prior to my TL-S (2001 Jetta & 2004 Passat), and I would say that the German 'build quality' is much better.

Not to say that VW doesn't have its share of problems (mostly electrical), but I just feel that they build a more solid car, with a more responsive 'drive feel'.

If I had the money to buy an M3 (or any BMW), I don't think I would consider the TL as an option. Don't get me wrong, I love my Acura, but I believe that BMW, Audi, Mercedes are in a league of their own. Even VW, which is at the low end of the German car scale, is a more 'solid built' vehicle. Just too bad that the new Passat is an ugly design...

The Acura advantage is in the electronics and gadgets... and the TL-S has an engine that will kick the crap out of most cars on the road.

Just my 2 cents...



Jimmy

007TL-S

SPREE , sorry to to hear about your luck!....paying close attention to the first test drive would of helped you choose one that didn't rattle as much etc, I don't know of an ACURA or HONDA that doesn't rattle, I took this in consideration before buying another ACURA/HONDA make , and I have had many!.....but, I can see your frustration,after paying almost $40k for a new car, But it's a give and take decision ,Overall reliability and re-sale value can't be beat, but keep taking it in till they get tired of seeing you and fix the problems, and check your lemon law's !..and give American Honda a couple of call's and address the problems directly with your ACURA SERVICE Manager, not the Service writer!..good luck....

TwinTurbo335

Acuras have been having tranny problems since second generation and now people that haves third generation are having it also. Acuras arent as reliable as you think it is. I Love my TL but acura really needs to fix their tranny...

Type-Superman

you do know acura is Japanese?

fsttyms1

yea if you have deep pockets to keep it running after warranty

Yea and???

shooter

Maybe I am just lucky: my 2G TL still pulls strong at 130k A few bad apples bound to pop up somewhere and that's true for any cars ....

Good luck with you and hopefully you will keep the type-s for the long term ...

Acuraboy7

Oh yes you can no offence. I got a BMW 330 I after my 2002 TL-S and I did it because acura pissed me off with that trans problem. I went back cuz BMW was worse with all the maint. TL is just a better bargin for the money.

KJSmitty

^^^^
And,,,, what was the topic of this thread??

ndabunka

Welcome Spree but you can't "take the car back" to the dealer. It's yours. You "may" be able to meet with the sales or General managers to express your concerns (be VERY polite as you want/need them on YOUR side). Explain calmly and rationally what the issue is and ASK for their help. In many cases, they will accept it as a personal issue and will beat the services teams into doing a better job resolving your problems. If you alignment is really off, have one of them drive the car with you in it and that way they have FEEL the pull of the steering wheel and you can VERBALLY tell them when you hear the rattles and get concurrence from them.

ndabunka

Lemon laws are "helpful" but not any type of assurance. My TL went back a number of times for the headliner. As such, I probably "could" have claimed a Lemon law but the fact was that they simply had not yet worked out the correct resolution and (in my mind) it didn't prevent the car from being "un-drive-able". They fixed it each time and each time (2-3 weeks later) it would simply release again. It's been satisfactory for about a year now and i am coming up to the expiration of my warranty and guess what, it's rattling and coming down once more. Irritating? Sure. Major problem, not really. Could I still try to claim a "lemon" law on it? Who knows. Would I? Nope. IMHO, rattles do not qualify as lemon-law viable.

Acuraboy7

eat me

KJSmitty

Sorry, just finished lunch. No longer hungry

What???? You didn't like my mod impersonation?

Acuraboy7

ncinirator

When it comes to rattles most techs are going to have a hard time hearing them. Their hearing is kind of jacked. They are used to a loud environment; walk into a service garage and see (i mean listen) to what is happening.

They are not going to hear what we hear all the time, especialy when they werent the ones that forked out over 30g's for a ride.

Lexus, Benz, BMW are luxury cars right? Why is it that every time I carfax a Acura for someone the print out reads 'near luxury'.

Oh yeah, the rattle you hear is the sassafrass. Does it every time.

PenguinTL

I have the same rattle near the steering wheel in my 07 Type-S. Aside from that, car is perfect. That rattle is driving me nuts though, will have to take it in soon!

saw1

Welcome to the forum!

My 07 TL-S has a rattle in the rear deck that I only hear when it is cold outside. It is really annoying and the dealer did not hear it when I took it in.

My allignment was perfect but after my B1 service it is pulling a little to the left, not terrible, but still pulling.

My only other issue has been the leather on the steering wheel is fading on the left hand side. It may be because that side of my car faces the south in my driveway and gets more direct sunlight.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, what state are you in? Here in Geaorgia, there is a several week gap between the time you purchase and the time the car is actually registered to you. In that interim period, the car is not really yours yet and technically could be returned to the dealer. Georgia is a little behing the times with their registration process

Good Luck,

SAW

Spree

Thanks for all the advice and the warm welcomes guys. Let me try to respond to some of your comments/questions.

First off, to the "once you go german" comment... lol! Yeah, in a way, I'll have to agree with you there. German build quality is outstanding, but IMHO, I think they've only very recently started catching up to the Japanese. Toyota/Lexus was the benchmark (and probably still is), although I think Porsche recently took the award as far as best quality in 07. Anyway, the reason I love german cars is simple: they're incredibly fun to drive. The M3 was, again, IMO, the sweetest car ever (Short of the supercars) Not because it was an M3, but because it was just so amazing on the road. Perfect amount of luxury, performance, looks, driver involvement, feel, etc... I never got tired of driving it, and it always brought a smile to my face. Probably shouldn't have sold it.

Anyway, back on topic, I'm starting to hate my car even more now because I'm hearing new rattles each day. One from the passenger side door (pulled on the door handle while going over bumps and it stopped - until I let go again), and another that I can't isolate, and is one of the weirdest noises ever. Sounds like glass on glass or something like that. Only when I'm on the highway. Almost like wind noise, but not exactly. Completely baffling and entirely frustrating. Anyway, I think I'm just going to give up on going to the dealer each time. I mean really, I'm embarrassed to call them at this point. I think I'm going to call Acura and complain, and I'll end it there. I hate, really hate, taking the time to have to figure out these rattles on my own and fix them, especially since I bought the car new and it only has 900 miles on it, and I shouldn't "have to", but I almost hate even more having to bring it to the dealer and the inconvenience with that. Not to mention they probably think I'm "hearing things", which would be totally untrue btw.

The alignment issue has been fixed, I think. The dealer completely swapped the front tires - good call on that suggestion KJSmitty.

Good point there, thanks. I think ultimately, I'll have to live with the rattles, considering they're only an annoyance, and not a safety hazard. You're right about overall reliability and resale value. I'll be counting on that cause I can't wait to sell it at this point! Hate to say that, but it's frustrating jumping in my friend's lexus and not hearing a SINGLE rattle

I hate to fixate on the rattles, but for some reason, it just makes the whole car feel cheap. Also, latest rattle that I forgot to mention: when I get out of the car and shut the door, upon impact, I hear a rattle coming out of the front of the vehicle! What the heck is that all about? lol. I'm just tired of it all!!!

For TL owners: I think the car itself is great, and I wouldn't necessarily discourage people from owning one, but I would warn people about interior build quality for sure.

Anyway, thanks again guys!

black label

You're Right!!!! Once I had a german car I never wanted another one!

Actually I gave them 3 strikes, then they were out. It was a BMW 320i an Audi 5000S and a VW Scirocco that forced me out of Germany and sent me to the Japanese. German cars were just giant holes in my driveway that I threw money into, Japanese cars get me where ever I need to go when ever I need to go and eventually I'll do the timing belt and maybe the clutch it depends if I want to keep it past 250,000 miles.

pphunck

m3 to tl? crazy!!!!!

german cars have their share of problems but...bmw 4yr/no maintaneance=good deal (obviously you surpassed that, but why not another bmw?)

good luck with the dealer...at least everything is under warranty!

don't get me wrong, i love the tl but love the m3 even more!

trancemission

been there done that.

trancemission

tl and M3 are not even in the same catagory. shouldnt even be used in the same sentence

jay0k

Spree, I understand your frustration. I bought a new 2007 TL-S and have plenty of rattles. I have taken it in several times and they either say they can't hear them or that they fixed them. They are never fixed. The only thing taking it to the dealer accomplishes is wasting my time.

I also have the pinging issue and it's the same sentiment as the rattles.

I've just learned to live with it and it still greatly irritates me at times.

I have owned BMW and they are built solid but they guts of them seem unreliable and very pricey to fix if outside warranty. It's seemed like it was always some obscure part, air conditioning, or something else random requiring attention. My hope for Acura is that they are Honda engines and will be flawless. My wife's land rover purrs like a kitten without any rattles so I may end up trading this thing in within a year once I pay enough down to make it worth my while.

Spree

Actually, that's probably exactly what I'm going to get. A used 04-05 M3. I loved my '03, should never have sold it!

That sucks. Yeah, same here. The thing is, I think the rest of the car (the TL), especially the vital components such as the engine, transmission, etc..., are probably very well built and will probably last forever, but the build quality in the cabin and body panels, etc... are just sub-par in my opinion.

Yeah, Bimmers have rock solid build quality.

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

my service dept tried to tell me my steering wheel rattle was my key fob too, and on the second time i took it back i gave them the valet key and told them they were wrong....and they were...

they took apart the steering wheel/air bag and put ept on everything in there and it fixed it right up....