mrlttran

I'm at 37k miles and it looks like the rotors need to be resurfaced. When are the rear pads supposed to be changed? How much do you guys think this service should cost? Thanks for the advice!

01tl4tl

Fairly common to need front pads and resurface rotors above 35k miles
the rears can go 50k or more
Usually when you need the 2nd set of front pads it will be time for rotors and you just do all 4 wheels and have great brakes again

01tl4tl

Shops charge about 1 hour labor per wheel plus parts and resurfacing charges for rotors
None will do the hi quality job you can do yourself

ILLustriousUA6

iTrader: (2)

hmm, i noticed this shaking while braking when I am stopping from high speeds.. i'm @ 25.5k miles on the car now, do I need new rotors??

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

TLboi ...

That's how it begins ... usually you won't feel a shimmy in the steering wheel or pulsations in the brake until the warping has advanced a little more than where you're at with your car. You do not need new rotors, and warped rotors are nothing more than a nuisance. Your braking power is no different.

However, I would give it another 10k miles before I resurfaced your rotors, b/c then you'll have more time with the new set before it happens again.

Then again, if it bothers you now, you might as well get it taken care of now.

mrlttran

Any special deals you guys know of for the Hawk pads? Anyone experiencing squeaking? I'd rather have stock pads and 0 squeaking... I have an 04 AT

01tl4tl

Hawk HPS run about 90 fronts 58 rears at Pepboys locally
No noises from mine and used from wife drives in town to me drive alone in mountains and track days
Make sure to lube parts with caliper grease

Do not wait if shaking felt- get it checked and fixed.
Save a few dollars today and spend many dollars next year- no logic there
It sends vibrations thru everything, not designed to do that!
Brakes are the most important part of the car

01tl4tl

A shop can check the rotors for wear and runout and thickness.
That determines if replace, resurface or go cheap and have noises.
There is material on the rotor when just re-used, and it will not like the new pads.
Clean old rotors with 150 grit sandpaper and then soap and water wash and dry.

erick3

Here's what you do: Make an appointment for the dealership to check out the brakes; say they're SQUEAKING and SHAKING while braking, especially on the freeway. What they'll do: they'll resurface and REPLACE YOUR pads and calipers; -> they're under the original warranty!!! i got mine replaced at 35k. w00t haha good luck!

mrlttran

When i went to my dealership they said no way is it covered...

acurabon

rotors n pads fall under the wear n tear parts that are excluded from the warranty, that's what I was told last week when I had mine resurfaced / machined.I had the same problem of steering vibration/shaking when applying brakes at highway speeds.mileage at 32000 n I paid $170.00 no pads

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

well.. im happy to see this thread

over the past 2 weeks my shaking has advance from the steering column to the WHOLE DAMN CAR!!!.. its really, really bad..

so i checked w. local acura dealer... they $675 for front rotors/pads & $675 for rear rotors/pads.


i only have 22k.... WTF !!! (i do also have 19"s, tein's, and a heavy foot)

soooo. i will be getting the rotoras next week. problem is, rotoras will be $1300 for the front... big bucks.... grrrrr...

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

BTW thats for replacement rotors, not resurfaced

vww253

What the hell are you serious?! The dealers charge $300+ for just the front brakes at most places. Did you pay extra when you bought the car for services? How is it under warranty?

KJSmitty

Purely a customer loyalty move by the dealer - definitely not the norm but it can happen. I received a new engine from GM at 40K miles in my Sub. A $7000 dollar tab I didn't have to pay.... A little different than brakes but non-the-less they "didn't have to".

KJSmitty

$170 w/out new pads.... Ouch

I paid $20....

TimeAfterTime

I took my car in for an oil change/tire rotation check up yesterday... ended up having to replace a tire because of a nail puncture and resurface my front rotors because they claim that they had only 10% life left. I did experience minor shaking whie braking and I told them that I would like to have the brakes done another time (since I could have took it to my friend's shop and have them do it for a lot cheaper). They told me that it cost $360 and that they are going to do it because they already took everything apart on my car. I went ahead and got it done, and I got ripped off! Maintenence is a b!tch.

TimeAfterTime

^^^^Oh yeah I forgot to mention also, the front brake pads were both replaced.

01tl4tl

What exactly did you authorize them to do on the car?
They had to call you for the approval on the resurface and tire?- which would normally include new pads as well- especially if 10 % remaining- they cant legally let the car leave the shop with no brakes. Must have actual measurements to determine the amount left.

"Taking everything apart" to inspect is their problem- should have been easy to visual the brakes and see they needed replacement

If they did not get approval for anything beyond oil change, tire replacement and rotation then you owe them for nothing more than that
CONSUMERS HAVE RIGHTS
check you local Consumer Affairs Bureau in the State Govt. pages of phone book
Shops must be licensed and have rules to follow and paperwork to document all.

Seeing you are 18- they may have tried to hose you and did!

Tony407

The biggest cause of warped rotors is over-tightening the lug nuts, or improper tightening. For any and all of you that have shimmying problems, especially at such low mileage, please consider that someone may have over-torqued the lug nuts.

Tony

KJSmitty

Actually "heat", cooling and rotor material is the biggest cause of warped rotors. From an engineering standpoint, when mounting the rim/rotor to the hub, overtorquing should not be applying a bending or warping force to the rotor. Remember, all you're doing is mounting a flat surface to another flat surface. And on near all rotors there is at least two 90 degree angles (from the lug/torque surface) prior to the actual braking surface of the rotor. Sure it has been the topic of discussion for quite some time, but having an exact torque or equal torque on each lug has very minimal if any effect as a major cause of rotor warpage.
Then again, do I religiously torque my lug nuts? You bet,, but the reason why is to apply the proper amount of tightness and in turn not damage the studs or nuts given the "many" times they must go on and off within a vehicles useful life.


Definitely the proper thing to do but warped rotors isn't/shouldn't be the real/specific reason for using a torque wrench on your lug-nuts.

Cheers

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

really?? i change my rims all the time myself....put my stocks on, chromes, stocks.. back and forth... you think my lugs could be over tightened?? i will check today!!!

DMZ

Like in most threads about brake job costs, NO ONE HERE is specifying 5AT or 6MT.
We should all know by now there could be a substantial difference in price.

Overtightened lug nuts is one of the chief reasons for warped rotors. And when it comes to resurfacing them, there's a very good reason why all Honda and Acura dealer service departments use the lathe that does them ON THE CAR.

KJSmitty

This too is true as I mentioned - covers up other issues - and the "chief" reason that many shops use them: saves time, money, and space.

DMZ

I was having rotor warpage issues all the time on my ex-Accord, an '89 SE-i Coupe, that is, until I was told by the head mechanic at Martin's Honda of Manhattan (no longer in existance) to make sure the lug nuts are tightened to 80 ft-lbs whenever the wheels are put back on.

I've never experienced warped rotors again, on the Accord nor my TL. When I go to my tire shop, I make sure they use a torque stick on the air gun.

What exactly are you referring to by "covers up other issues"?

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

thats a good point to bring up. because i am always changing my wheels myself, and i torque the nuts as tight as i can with my bare hands... how much torque do you think that is?

Tony407

To each their own I suppose. But I have to disagree 100%. Here's a very good article: "Warped" Rotors

Tony

Tony407

I dunno...how strong are you and what kind of bar are you using? The longer the bar or ratchet you use, the more torque you can apply.

Most of my cars usually specify somewhere around 90 ft lbs. And 90 ft lbs is no where near as tight as I could get them if I put some muscle into it. I'd say somewhere around a third as tight as I could get them by brute force?

Buy a good torque wrench or borrow one so you know approximately how much force you need to use.

Does anyone know the torque specs for the TL's lug nuts?

Tony

KJSmitty

Something I posted in the other brake/front rotor discussion:

Many times turned rotors tend not to warp as quickly as when from the factory. Much of the "quick" warping on a new vehicle rotors is from the stresses in the original cast etc.. But true, if you/the tech has to perform over three runs on the lathe, your "warpage" may require removing more than desired (there is a safe limit and your tech should know that spec).

I have/had a local brake shop turn my TL rotors at ~25K (actually only $10/per there - Napa use to charge $12). Overall, pretty easy to tell an adequate job from a poor and/or dull diamond bit job etc.. Given my level of expertise, I didn't even replace the stock pads - no need to considering their current state (easily had 3/4s of the pad left).

Just a word of caution, if an "on-the-vehicle" rotor lathe is required to remove "all" of your brake shimmy, you should be taking your car to a mechanic to get the root issue fixed.
Sure they are handy and work quick, but all you are doing is covering up a bent axle, bad bearing race install and/or bent spindle, or worse. Something I may try on a beater, but not a fairly new vehicle still under warranty. Also, if you're worried about .003 inches of run-out , a vehicles spindle/axle bearings could have that and many times even worse. This typical bearing "play" is just transferred to your on-the-car rotor turn etc..
Cheers


I'm not suggesting that on the car rotor turns/lathes are a bad idea - they work fine. I'm just letting folks know that if an on-the-car rotor turn was required to "completely remove brake shimmy", they most definitely have an underlying issue besides just warped rotors. If so, you are removing material from your rotors to compensate for an out-of-round/spec issue on the hub/axle assembly etc..

As for torquing, most mechanics would admit that it may be a culprit for warped rotors - some rims/hub assemblies and rotor shape could have an issue if significantly over-torqued not to mention unevenly etc.. But heat/uneven heating/cooling is truly the root cause for most.

I had the opposite experience with my TL than your Accord. Literally the first week I brought my TL home and then for the next year I had numerous "tire balancing" issues (as did many of us). I literally take my rims/tires off myself at home and then take them in with the Sub each time to get balanced (this way I get both vehicles done at once and it mitigates mishaps on the TL wheels etc.). Bottom line I meticulously torque them back on each time myself - ensuring perfection to say the least. My TL rotors began to warp at about 5K miles then slowly got worse to the point I "had" to do something about it at 25K. In my case had nothing to do with uneven torque. Even at 25K my brake pads were literally "like new" - yes, most of the time I drive like a70 yr old lady.
As mentioned, had a local independent brake shop turn them for $10 each, left the original pads in the calipers and put her back together. Has been flawless since. I attribute my"warpage" to heat and the explanation in the first paragraph above.

Seriously, I'm not attempting to start an argument - we all have our own opinions (sometimes strong), experiences, and knowledge base.
The above is just mine.

Cheers

PS - every time I see your avatar/"DMZ" I think of my time in Korea...
- And no, that doesn't reflect my age - just business travel. :-)

KJSmitty

80 ft lbs

01tl4tl

Snug them up by hand with the lug wrench- thats 50 lbs. then bring them to 80 foot pounds
Thats a good solid push with your foot on the stock lug handle/wrench
but no so tight that its squeaks
Use a star pattern- lugs across from each other- to tighten equally
20 bucks at harbor freight tools gets you a torque wrench
Torque STICKS do not actually measure the torque-never trust them!
Tire shops blast lugs on and that WILL damage even expensive brand new rotors- thats per SPEED TV truck show
Heat in rotors is an issue if you fail to do a cool down drive period after extreme use
For normal driving- that is not an issue

KJSmitty

Seriously,
Your article - which I and many associates have read before in one shape or form, 100% validates everything I have been trying to get across. Read the section regarding "LRO" - Lateral Run-Out again - if you still think torque and lug nuts are the 100% cause for "warping" your rotors or brake pulsation,,, I can't help you.
Also, the article completely spells out why I tend to dislike the on-the-car method - you are using the rotor to alleviate issues with other components and/or installation issues. It's a fact. And I'll tell you what, if you or some other tech remove your rotors for whatever reason after an on-the-car turn, and install them in any other placement than "exactly" as they came off, you will definitely have vibration (only if other issues were present prior to the on-the-car turn/lathe etc.).

For example: Jimmy the tech mistakenly didn't clean the rust off the hub prior to installing the rotor... Or, Rodtod accidentally dropped the hub at the factory prior to install... Both issues would cause the rotor to have LRO issues causing brake shimmy. Instead of cleaning out that rust or replacing that bent hub assembly, lets just turn the brake rotor on the car and fix the shimmy but not the actual root cause. I myself, both as a darn good mechanic and individual that cares about quality repairs, would rather fix the underlying cause than mask it.

Lastly, the article states that rotors "don't warp",,, this alone completely removed 90% of the authors (or sources) credibility when I first read it.. Anyone that argues this point has never turned a rotor or remotely has any engineering or brake sense/experience at all.

Like I said, not arguing. I just know more than the average Joe/tech at this point in my life. The article is just a promotion for the specific lathe and or us of it etc..

Cheers

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

im not that strong.. .lol... but i do change my wheels very often.... seasonal, check my tires... blah blah.. and i always do it myself in my driveway.

usually i screw them as tight as i can, then do a quarter turn with alot of strength.



about 3 weeks ago, i got a bubble in a tire. so i took all my rims off, until my special order tire arrived.. i ride on my stock oems for like 2-3 days. then put my rims back on. (all done by hand)

then i have to take a wheel off again, but i had a shop do it. only one wheel. they put it back on with an air-gun.. (front left wheel)

ever since then, my wheels have been shaking like crazy.. the car is going wild! i dont know what to do!! i am gonna get the rotoras in like 3 days... am i wasting my money on this????

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

you bring a good point up,. rotors DO warp.. but i think what eveybody and this article included, are saying, is that something causes it to happen. and changing rotors only temp. fixes the problem until those rotors are "warped" again by the same cause

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

i feel like rotors should not warp by themselves, unless you run your pads too low or there is some external force... LRO, imporper balancing or mount. bad axles, ball joints whatever..

01tl4tl

2 main causes of rotor warpage

Improper torque/ uneven/overtorque of lug nuts
Excess heat not dissapated by driving before stop and sit
Got to drive them without using brakes to cool after hot runs
or else!!!

mrlttran

How much should a brake job cost at an independant shop vs. dealer? I was quoted about 190 for the front and 200 for the rear with stock pads w/ resurfacing if required... I just want to use the stock pads as this car is for work and i drive around A LOT...

mrlttran

anyone...

01tl4tl

toss the OE and get some decent parts.
The stock brakes suck
A private shop will charge about 70% of the labor rate of the dealer because less overhead

Parts vary if you have a manual or auto trans

If you did the job at home it would take 3 to 4 hours at a casual pace so a shop should not charge that long. Also- the rear rotors are cheap- better to replace than resurface
Napa has good American made rotors and AAA discount
Pads are a discussion unto themselves but get ceramic for OE performance
Dont get the cheapest thing- its your brakes!!!

The rears also contain the park brake system inside the rotor hub. Its a small drum brake system- if the shop does not know that- go somewhere else

01tl4tl

And there are 2 choices on TL rotors- resurface or replace, to not do it invites noise and problems.