The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

Well I took my car in to have the check a rough idle on cool starts. I just got a call from them and they're keeping it another night to perform a "drop down" test to check the compression in the morning. my question is wtf is a drop down test? and could compression be to culpret? My engine has had all it's oil changes on time and I change the air filters religously so I don't see how it could be losing compression. Maybe a loose plug or something? What do you guys think?

Also they gave me a CSX for a loaner, fun little car, but you think you give them your 40K car and you'd atleast get something in the same realm of class, not a jazzed up civic. The dealer said that's all they had for loaners so i'm thinking sales on them are bad and HCM is making dealers use them to keep sales up.

timmahh

Eh.... a drop down test - sounds familiar but I don't know the exact answer. I know there's a compression/leak-down test.. It could be a loose plug but I would think that's something they check immediately because it would be a pretty easy fix. If compression is the issue I would think you'd see problems across the entire RPM band, not just a rough idle. It could be a number of things - if the compression is fine, and again if you only have a rough idle and nothing else is wrong, I would think it is, you may have a bad sensor somewhere. A bad sensor should throw an engine code though..

My accord went in the shop and I got a Nissan Sentra that had crappy music in the cd player, smelled like someone had smoked pot in it for 8 years, and the accelerator pedal got stuck occasional so the car would continue going WOT.

csmeance

just as a random guess, a bad egr valve The delaers have their own choice for loaner cars and the company does not assign them to the delaership. The dealership pays out of pocket then sells them as certified used cars after a year or 10k miles.

01tl4tl

Loaner cars are a goodwill gesture- be thankful your not on your own for transport!

A cylinder leak down test forces compressed air into a cylinder at a time and determines if there is leakage past the valves or the piston rings

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

^ your right, my brother told me the same thing. Hopefully it's not something in the engine and is just a sensor gone bad maybe IAC or MAF. I told them awhile ago that the mileage had dropped off so maybe it's a O2 sensor.

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

So they did a Drop down test, scanned for error codes, checked for mis fires, called tech-line and after sharing some results they've come up with this. There technical term is a "Power Pulse Vibration" techline claims its normal in MTs, sounds like bullshit too me, what about you guys? To me it doesnt make sense that it would just run rough for a bit then smooth out. I suggested maybe motor mounts or something but they said no. I've got 56000km on it and I wonder if they are giving me the run around till i'm outside my coverage.

On the upside I have inside contacts with Acura Canada and will be confirming this with a trusted source in the near future. Whats your guys take?

6spMike

How rough?
Mine's a little rough, too.
Anyone know if these cars are 'closed loop' right on startup?
if not, it could be slightly dirty injectors; causing a lean condition.

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

enough to piss me off>? It's noticeble enough to be slightly agrovating in the morning. The Dealer definatly felt it, and noted that on the invoice, but acura canada said it's "normal". The dealer did all they could do really until techline will approve something. I'm going to keep pushing because i'm not satisfied.

rbf351

it's one of your O2 sensors, had this on my car, and after lots of fighting they finally replaced the rear O2 sensor, and the bouncing cold start idle vanished.

the O2 sensor did not give an error codes on my car.

acura does not like to take advice from other mechanics.

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

The person that I'll be taking this up with is actually one of the head Acura Mechanics in Canada. How did they know it was an O2 sensor if it's not throwing any codes? Maybe If I give them whatever your mechanic did this will help.

rbf351

my dad is a mechanic, and after he explained how O2's worked to Acura for some reason they decided to listen, and replace it.

basically from experience he knew exactly why the car was running like shit

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

that would explain alot, because my mileage has been shitty lately and the car feels powerless. how would i get them to replace the O2's under warranty though. If it's not throwing a code I don't think they will know how to tell which one is bad. The dealers going to be pissed when I make an appointment on Monday lol.

rbf351

mine was the rear top bank O2 sensor, which threw a code 5 months before idle issue, and when i took the car to acura for the code they told me i must have been seeing things, but i had pulled the code and left the CEL on for them just to see what they would say.

either way if it was an O2 sensor issue, there must have been a CEL at one point. worse case disconnect one or both O2's and you'll get a CEL. then bring it over to them

dtapia

thats pretty normal for the tl mt and a/t to have a slightly rough idle on start up since the pcm is dumping a lot of fuel for fast warm up just a normal thing on the tl. we see this a lot in the winter and in the summer with warmer weather it tapers off dont be alarmed you should not have any engine damage or failure from this.

Gfaze

The dealer (or any competent mechanic) can use a scope (or a sophisticated diagnostic scanner such as the Snap-On "brick") to monitor the feedback from the O2 sensor and compare the results with factory specs. If the sensor is failing it will read out of spec. This doesn't always trigger the CEL so sometimes techs will rely on experience/gut feeling.

01tl4tl

There is a basic electrical test that can be performed on the O2 sensor without removing it from the car
Its on spec and working 100% or its not!

juni17

i just bought a 2007 TL-S 6MT and it has the rough idle you are describing. It only has 200 miles on it.

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

Well I have since gone to another dealer, and they were able to duplicate it. They gave it the scan with the HDS and seem to think that the battery was disconnected and the computer was not calibrated afterwards. They said something about the crank position sensor. They've reset the computer and re-learned it. Cars seems a little smoother now, but it hasn't sat over night to be definitive.

Xx06SickspdTlxX

I feel the same at cold start when idling, same on both my friends tl-s's, feels normal to me infact the car isnt at operating temp yet. Well it looks like they redid the idle learn proceedure, i guess youll have to see what happens.

tofufighter

I was having the same issue with my TL-S. I spoke to the dealer about it and they said it was "normal" for all TL-S's. I thought he was just trying to avoid looking at it, but maybe he was right. I didn't pay $38.XXX for a car that has a rough idle though... I might check the spark plugs myself

csmeance

this is a problem with a lot of dealers, they think the car is ready from the factory and is ready to be given. THe car need to have all the intial things done, Idle learn procedure, Fuses checked and installed, fluids checked and so forth. Alot of them skip on this and just sign their name in the booklet so they don't spend time on it. I have seen this happen a few times at dealerships.

junktionfet

My '07 TL-S 6 speed is also quite rough when cold. You can feel the engine randomly vibrating and hear the exhaust sputter a bit. I assumed this was somewhat normal for the car.

Even when warm the engine isn't perfectly smooth. Revving the warm engine to about 1000 RPM results in the same "misfire" and exhaust popping/sputtering. Actually I think it's sort of cool. I certainly hope this is not indicative of a problem.

So far on my ~2000 mile old TL, I've had the following mechanical issues:

-Massive spark knock/pinging. Dealer unable to repair. But they did throw on some new heat shields for me since they were apparently cracked (somehow).

-Reluctant 3rd gear when cold. Dealer unable to repair--fed line of BS from techline about this being the nature of dual cone synchros (hahaha).

-Engine has used over 1 quart of oil. While I suspect this will subside as the engine accumulates more miles, I am concerned that many owners haven't experienced anything like this.

-Engine is rough when cold or when held at ~1000 RPM warm. Is this an issue?


The interior has three distinct buzzes/rattles, but such noises don't bother me really--I just know they are there.

Yeah so, my car might be a piece of crap. And in fact, there may be an entire run of Type-S cars that are poorly assembled. Oh well. Despite it's faults I still like it better than my former TSX. This car may not live up to its $40,000 price tag, but it's still fun as hell to drive. So f*ck it.