back2vtec

This is probably a completely silly question but I figured I'd ask anyway.

New to the TL and while poking around I noticed the radiator has some play when I wiggle it so I'm wondering if this is normal to absorb the engine vibration or I'm missing some parts to keep it in place.
I'm talking about the two corners of the radiator like the one in the attached photo. Is it supposed to have something on there? It seems that's what allows it to have play.

This is probably a silly question and it's supposed to do that but better to ask and be sure.

Thanks,

Cristian

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Normal. Your suspicion is correct. Rubber mounts to allow movement

back2vtec

Phew.. good to hear! Thanks for confirming!

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

When new there is no radiator movement, however, over time they do wear and allow the radiator to move. Either place some rubber in the area to take up the open space, or purchase some new units as they are inexpensive.
Cushion, Radiator Mounting (Upper) 74173-SJ4-000 $3.87 $2.90

There are lower "cushions" also.
74172-S87-A000 $15.53 $11.65

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

well, there goes my theory.

frankjnjr

My 2003 TLS upper radiator support bushings, (Honda calls them Cushions), seemed to me, to allow "much" more movement of the upper radiator than i would have expected. Removal of the rubber grommets, revealed both were "very hard", stiff, and elongated due to 14 years, and 230K miles of service. A recent trip to the local Pick and Pull produced a totaled 2016 Accord which shares the same bushing, so it appears Honda is still using them. For general piece of mind, you can buy these bushings new, for less than $3.00 ea., Honda OEM part # 74173 SJ4 000. Installing the newer grommets, (Cushions), reduced the upper radiator fore and aft movement in my car,
considerably.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

With 17,000+ posts, can't be right 100% of the time, but from what I see, guess you're running about 99.9%, good work.

back2vtec

For 3 bucks a pop I'll buy some new rubber!

Thanks guys!

NoTLoud

I replaced those two top rubber mounting bushings with OEM bushings and there is still play on the radiator. There are two bushings on the bottom, which I have, but it required taking more of the car apart than I have felt like doing for something that probably won't make a difference.

I was concerned about the radiator moving around as much as it does, but those top bushings did nothing to keep it from moving around less.

01acls

It's critical to have some movement in the radiator mounts due to the wide temperature fluctuations the car will experience. If Acura wanted it to be rigid, then they would of use solid mounts instead of rubber mounts.

If the radiator was mounted solid you would see a lot of cracked plastic tanks where the upper and lower radiator hoses attach to the plastic tanks due to expansions and/or contractions of the hoses or the forwards and backwards rocking of the motor due to acceleration and/or deceleration.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Not true. The rubber mounts are for vibration, same as any other part that is isolated by rubber bushings, and have never seen a new car have a radiator that will move. Our '04 TL is tight as a drum with NO radiator movement.
As far as movement, that's why they have rubber hoses to absorb any movement, and with rubber hoses there is no need for radiator movement.
Years ago they never used rubber bushings to secure the radiator and there were never any problems, but with all the insulation done to prevent unwanted resonance, the rubber mounts came about.

01acls

If there were no movement with the radiator, the radiator would be mounted solid and the hoses wouldn't be made of rubber so there is some movement with both radiator and hoses. As the car ages you may see elongation of the rubber radiator mounts due to movement. Especially if the motor mounts have deteriorated.

As far as radiators not having problems when they were mounted solid is because radiators back then were made of all metal not plastic and metal like current cars.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Not true. The radiator is to have no movement. The rubber mounts aren't pliable or soft enough to allow the rad to move, as they are they to simplify installation.
Also, not true about plastic tank radiators not mounted solid. For one example, our RX7 has a radiator with plastic tanks and is mounted solid to the radiator support with 4 bolts.

Just think about it-Why is there a need for the radiator to move?????????There isn't.

frankjnjr

Not sure i agree with your statement, "Not true. The (radiator is to have no movement)". It is true, "The rubber mounts aren't pliable of soft enough to allow the radiator to move, as they are there to simplify installation". All Honda and Acura vehicles, I have examined, have a different degree of looseness, or fore and aft movement at the top area of the radiator. One reason for this looseness, is not the support grommet itself, but the diameter of the center hole in the grommet, in relation to the diameter of the centering plastic pin, molded into the top of the radiator. After becoming concerned with the looseness of the upper radiator in my 03 TLS, 230K, i removed the upper radiator support grommets, and found the center holes extremely elongated, front to rear. After replacing the support grommets with much newer ones, the looseness was reduced dramatically. My upper radiator is still not TIGHT, but i believe some level of looseness, or play, was designed in, to help prevent stress on the radiator itself.

01acls

You can not say there is no movement in the radiator. Even a movement of 1/32" or 1 mm is movement. You might think there is no movement because the rubber mounts are not pliable but that's not true because rubber is pliable especially in the hot engine compartment as noted by Frankjnjr.

The RX7 is a rotary motor and the motor is not transversely mounted so it's movement is different than FWD vehicles. Maybe that is an exception to the rule.

There is movement build in to the design of the radiator mounts and radiator hoses to prevent the plastic tanks from premature cracking due to plastics getting brittle with age.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

I'll repeat myself, there is no movement in a new car, and our '04 doesn't have .001" of movement, nor does the daughter's Audi and that is fwd. There are plenty of rubber bushing that aren't pliable, just look at front end components. It would be unique to have the front end moving around in the rubber bushings. Just like body mounts, they are insulators, but the body doesn't move on the frame due to rubber mounts.

01acls

If there were no movement there wouldn't be a need to install bushings or isolators of any kind.

Vibration is a form of movement.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

They are for noise suppression, not movement. Like I said, body mounts don't move but their job is to isolate the cabin from vibrations. The rads with electric fans are the same, they don't need to move, the rubber isolates the body from vibrations.

01acls

Turbonut, you have no clue of what you're talking about. Case in point, the OP's title"radiator "wobble" question" clearly states he is experiencing radiator movement. So how do you make a total untrue statement of there is no radiator movement in a 3g TL?

And please stick to the OP's concerns and/or Acura 3g TL topic like we're suppose to.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

For once you're right. The OP did say he was experiencing radiator wobble, why, maybe because the bushings are shot. Maybe the OP should mic the rad pins to see if they're worn from the constant movement, and the lowers were never checked, who knows.

01acls

Who knows? I know, justnspace, and frankjnjr knows to name a few.
So why is OP's pic of the radiator bushing only shot or detiorated on the inside and not the outside? Could it be that the inside is constantly moving and the outside is stationary?

CHECKMATE... THE END.

frankjnjr

Never occurred to me to "mic" the pins! Out of curiosity, I'll see if i can find a spec. for them and check. Tx.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

That's correct, normally a bushing will deteriorate where there is constant movement and that is on the inside, not outside.

As there is no movement in our '04 radiator and the consensus is that the radiator will move even with new bushings, you guys forced me to remove the cover and look at the bushings. Purchased the car in '06 32,000 miles and low and behold there is a rubber sleeve that is around the radiator pin which isn't in the above picture. Looks like I've got to investigate further.

Slpr04UA6

I'm sure there is supposed to be a "rubber" sleeve around radiator pin. I had to swap these over during a recent radiator replacement. If not there, I could see how there would be more movement! These sleeves can get lost on removal of old radiator.

frankjnjr

"ODD" While at the local Pick N Pull today, I examined at least 15 1999-2007 Honda and Acura cars. All (appeared) to have their original radiators, and all showed different degrees of fore and aft movement. My experience tells me that American Honda would not design this much movement into the system intentionally! On NONE of the cars examined, did i find a "SLEEVE" mounted between the radiator centering pin and the support cushion??? Delray Beach Acura OEM parts illustrations, also failed to disclose such a sleeve? Slpr04UA6, can you please tell me the year and model involved in "the recent radiator replacement" you performed? I have never seen "the (rubber) sleeve around the radiator pin" you describe but, I would like to find one. A simple fix, for this issue, would be to cut to fit, a correct diameter plastic or rubber hose, position it on the radiator pin, and problem solved. THIS THREAD IS GETTING WAY TO COMPLICATED FOR SUCH A SIMPLE PROBLEM!

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

The radiator on my 3G had some play on these bushings. So does my 4G. If the bottom had significant play I'd be concerned due to the transmission cooler connections being solid and probably not holding up well over time with movement. But the top end has only the engine coolant line and the reservoir, both of which are made of rubber and aren't likely to ever crack due to a few millimeters of movement.

01acls

There isn't suppose to be a sleeve at the upper radiator mount bushing. If there is that's not Factory.

Slpr04UA6

Frankjnjr- I have a 2004 TL Base.



Just replaced original radiator ~ 2 Months ago, had to search for rubber "sleeve" for passengers side during replacement of new radiator, as drivers side stayed with mount. I can try to take a picture,

frankjnjr

Really appreciate that Slpr04UA6, thanks for your interest.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

I also don't believe the "sleeve" to be factory. To me someone cut a piece of probably rubber hose and inserted them on the pins.
Who????????