Araf

Aright Guys, need major help here!!!

Two months ago, I changed my oil and there was barely 2 litres if that much of oil that drained.

I thought perhaps Speedy didn't put enough oil in the last oil change, although it was extremely black.

Two weeks after that, my engine oil light comes on, I put in 2 litres of oil, dipstick looked good. Dropped the car off at Acura to do an oil change, just so that they were the last ones to change the oil, @ 151,896 KM (94,935 miles).

I bring it home, change the PCV valve, it was stuck and soaked in oil. Thought problem was fixed. Now @ 152,700 KM, oil light comes back on, dipstick is half full, less than 1,000 KM (625 Miles) from last oil change.

There is no evidence of leaking oil on the ground at all, exhaust ends look normal, no excessive soot, opened oil filler cap while engine running, there was absolutley no back pressure, engine didn't even bog down at all.

I have no power loss and fuel consumption is normal.

I have 7,000KM left on my warranty, but I can't find some receipts or regular oil change.

Does anyone else have this problem or have any idea what it is? I am thinking rings are shot, but there3 is no power loss or anything.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Ok,so the car was down to two liters before the check oil light came on.
Now you had Acura do an oil change and 650 miles later the oil light is on again but the oil shows half way on the dip stick? Half way on the dip stick sounds fine, having 2 liters/quarts of oil in the engine is pretty bad.

Did you check the dip stick after the oil change? From the top of the dip stick range to the bottom is less than one quart.

Araf

Hi Hi Speed,

I am not sure how much oil was in the engine, but I put in two litres, and it looked good enough on the dip stick. I am not sure at what level does the oil need to dip down in order for the light to come.

I def checked the dip stick after the oil change and it was good, now 650M later the light is back on again, and oil definetly depleted on the dip stick.

I can't figure it out. I thought for sure after changing the pcv valve that was probably stuck open or closed that oil would not depelete after that.

What causes oil to be pulled by the PCV valve?

Do you guys thing my rings are shot?

Note I have a heli-coil in the number 2 cylinder, I doubt that is relevant to the oil consuption, but I am not sure.

Please advsie.

I hate cars

See what the plugs look like.

What type of oil are you using?

At the rate yours is going down you would see a drip if it were leaking.

Is the fresh air to the crankcase coming off the inlet pipe after the airfilter free?

If you determine it's burning oil, depending on how cold it gets, you may try a 10w-30 or 15w-40 until you find the cause. Oil burning will kill the catalytic convertors quickly.

SouthernBoy

At the rate you say you're loosing oil, it seems you would see drops or a puddle under your engine after being parked for a while, or smoke from the exhaust. If it's your rings, smoke will be constant. If it is a valve seal, smoke will "puff" from the exhaust when you start out then seem to disappear. If your heli-coil was failing, you'd be loosing compression and that would really show up and most likely throw a code with the check engine light.

"I hate cars" mentioned to do a plug reading and that's a very good idea. If there are any cylinder problems, a plug reading will show up most of them.

A PCV soaked in oil would indicate a failing valve almost always. This oil is from the area in the head where the PCV is placed in the valve cover. As to, "What causes oil to be pulled by the PCV valve", that would be the low pressure in the intake manifold (vacuum). This pulls blow-by gases from the crankcase into the line which is terminated at the PCV. These gases are then fed back into the intake stream to be re-burned in the combustion process. The valve itself doesn't pull anything.

Oil has to go somewhere if its level is falling. It is either being leaked or burned. The only other place for it to go is the transmission and that would be caused by a failing rear crankshaft seal. The most common causes for this seal to fail are running low levels of oil in the crankcase, letting the car sit for rather long periods of time without being run, abuse, acids and blow-by gases accumulating in the crankcase (can be caused by a faulty PCV), poor quality oil used, and crankshaft vibrations generally caused by poorly dampened harmonics or an out-of-balance shaft (which would cause poorly dampened harmonics).

So first, carefully check for leaks. Check around the oil pan, the pulley where it connects to the crankshaft, and the interface (hate that word) between the engine and transmission. Next, have someone drive behind you to look for smoke.

I hate cars

Forgive me for going off topic. But the most "fun" I had finding missing fluid was on the parents' Mazda Navajo (Explorer). The trans level had been going down for nearly a year with no leaks. I finally decided to dedicate a day to finding it. It took about 30 minutes to find it had a bad vacuum modulator and the fluid was being pulled into the engine and burned. It wasn't enough to cause smoke but it was a great feeling when I pulled the vacuum line and it was filled with ATF.

Back on topic, I wonder if a bad PCV was the culprit originally.

One thing I forgot to mention is I experienced what I thought was fictional (according to some) oil loss switching to a different brand of oil. My car was run on the same oil from new to 75,000 miles. Then I switched to Redline. I double and triple checked the level even after a drive, always in the exact same place on the street. Sure enough, after a week I was 1/4 quart lower still checking under the same conditions. It never used any more oil in 6,000 miles except for the first week.

SouthernBoy

Once you get past the obvious reasons for a dropping oil level, it can be rather disconcerting for sure. I suspect mainly because we normally think that loosing oil should show up in either a leak somewhere or the engine burning it.

For your parents' ATF loss, did anything show up in the inside of the exhaust pipe - any residue?

With a sticking PCV value, blow-by gases would increase in the crankcase along with an increase in pressure. This pressure would have to be relieved in some way or another. If there is no other venting of the crankcase, as in through a valve cover to the intake manifold or even the exhaust stream, I would think that seals would be in jeopardy.

This is an area where I have never had any problems or experience so other than theory, I am in the same boat as others here. It's been my experience seeing engines with sticking PCV valves to see the grommet softened by the gases and the gases then passing through the PCV value entry area in the valve cover. Either that or a breather cap which allows the gases to escape into the air.

I hate cars

That's one reason I was wondering if the fresh air that comes off of the air inlet pipe was free. *Usually* the PCV by itself won't have enough flow for all of the blowby at WOT.

I don't think ours are like many Bimmers where they're run under a slight vacuum but it takes very little pressure to get a good deal of blowby past the rings. I've seen people plug off the fresh filtered air into the crankcase when they install a CAI and cause oil consumption issues.

I didn't notice any abnormal deposits in the tailpipe of the parents' car but that may be due to the catalytic convertor. I know when I had an exhaust seal going bad in a turbo in my catless GN, it quickly got a fluffy carbon deposit in the tailpipe even with a minimal amount of smoke.

Araf

Thanks guys for this.

I had the car towed to Acura on Saturday. They called me today and oddly cliam that the oil level is good, and compresion and all is good.

They said that it is a faulty oxygen sensor. I didn't tell them that I changed the PCV valve, as the previous one was stuck, they said the code is P2251.

Now, I am wondering if the O2 sensor is gone because of oil burning, or previous oil burning, however, I checked the new PCV valve and it was soaked in oil too....

I don't know, thank god I have an extra 8k on my warranty, whatever good that is since, they cliam the Oxygen senor is not covered by extended comprehensive warranty.

What do you guys think?

I hate cars

The 02 is covered by the 100K emissions warranty but they like to "forget" that fact.

Burning oil will kill an 02, you may be on the right track. The only way you're going to get the correct story is by pulling the plugs yourself to see what's happening.

Have you added a CAI?

YeuEmMaiMai

no leaks?

if you are buring oil like that, you would definately see it coming out the tail pipe and would have crap all over your bumper

SouthernBoy

Yeah, the 02 sensors are really quite "high" in our cars.. as in just outside of the exhaust port on the head. So any oil burning is going to hit them right away.

The OP just wrote this; "however, I checked the new PCV valve and it was soaked in oil too". This doesn't sound good at all. Either the line to the manifold is clogged or crimped, or perhaps the shield inside of the valve cover which protects the PCV valve from splashing oil is damaged. He shouldn't be having a new PCV valve getting oil soaked right away.