Capone.

Hi everyone,

I haven't been on here in a while but alas I'm back, in need of help. So basically, I have a 2006 Acura TL with 155,000 km which is about 96,000 miles. I have had the car for about 7 months now and the odd time, the car just won't PUSH like it should. I thought maybe it was just in my head but I did a 0-60mph run and I clocked 9.4 seconds. On a good, normal day it does 6.3 seconds. But more and more recently I find it slacking when I hit the pedal to the medal. It feels like the struggle is mostly in the first and second gear, and at low rpms.

So I decided to go to the mechanic, he test drove it and said it's fine and probably is just in my head. So I got an oil change with the proper synthetic oil, a tranny flush, and tire rotation. When I got the car back, wow, it ran like friggin new. I figured it was probably overdue for an oil change, WRONG. A few days later it went back to being sluggish!

So I went and got some NGK Laser Iridium spark plugs and installed them myself, hoping that would solve the problem.. Nope. Then I also changed the air filter in the engine to see if that was the problem, still no luck. So now I'm here stuck, not knowing what to do. The only thing I can think of is maybe it has to do with the fact the big service is coming up to change the water pump and timing belt soon.

So what do you all think the problem could be? Timing belt? Water pump? Fuel pump/injector? Tranny? Any advice or guidance would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks for reading.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

sounds like the infamous TL heatsoak

Capone.

I'm not familiar with that, is it bad or something easily fixed?

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

Yep. Very easy. Just take off the hood to the TL and roll like pimped out Civic. It will have the acceleration to match!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

1st, what kind of fuel are you using?

the TL's ECU is VERY finicky. you need to be running top tier premium fuels.
because of how finicky and aggressive the ECU is, it will scale back timing BIG time, when it detects non-optimum conditions.....

this includes but NOT limited to;
- fuel
- heat
- if ECU detects slippage
- and many other conditions....


you can try to reset the ECU by disconnecting the negative battery terminal for a few seconds to a minute....
I suspect that's what happened when you got it back from the mechanic.... ECU was reset and you felt powah.

polobunny

Heatsoak at this time of the year in Canada unless on the track isn't really a possibility. I'd look elsewhere.

Capone.

Well I don't think it is the fuel, because 80% of the time I fill up with 93.. 20% of the time I put in 91.. Unless it's only supposed to take one or the other? I'm not sure what you mean by slippage, but I do notice my engine does get very hot quite fast.. I will try reseting the ECU your way, I have reset the ECU many times using the gas pedal method but it doesn't fix the issue, maybe your method will.

Thanks

Capone.

Is there anything else I can try, to see if it helps? Anyone?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I'm sorry I was typing fast that day and trying to get all my thoughts clear to you.

if the ECU detects wheel slippage, it will scale back timing... NOT saying that it is doing it for in your case....

just saying that the ECU is very picky and will need the very best conditions in order to NOT scale back timing.

and no, you're fine using 93 or 91, as both are considered premium.

Capone.

Ok I see what you're saying, thanks.

Anyone ever use seafoam? I was thinking of putting a half a can in my gas tank before gassing up next.. Any thoughts?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

you can, but I doubt it will fix your problems!

you're assuming that the fuel is dirty, however, premium fuels have detergents in them already.
if you are using 93 and sometimes 91 octane, your engine will be pretty clean.

oil changes? how are you doing on that front? following the MID?

Capone.

Ok I may just try it to see how it works and if it fixes the prob I'll post it here. Oil changes are fine, I got one a few weeks ago along with a tranny flush. Used synthetic oil 5 20

Capone.

Bump.. I took off all the plastic covers under the hood as well as the one on the engine and disabled the VSA.. Still no luck.

Any other suggestions?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I'm brainstorming here.

are you able to accelerate past 5500 RPM?

have an auto parts store check to see if your car is throwing any codes by hooking up the OBDII scanner.

02 sensors can get lazy over time. maybe 02 sensor is bad?

thegipper

I have had nearly similar experiences with my 04 AT. I've replaced everything you listed and the APP and 3rd cat. Mine essentially only does it in the hot summer months though so I've come to the conclusion that it is just heat soak. I have since taken off all of the plastic covers but it's already getting pretty cool here in Wisconsin and haven't had the sluggish feeling in awhile.

Unfortunately I think what Justnspace has said is the case, the ECU is extremely finicky and will pull timing for a bunch of different reasons.

Mine also feels very sluggish every time I reset my ECU. It stays that way usually for a day or two until it returns back to normal, for the life of me I don't know why.

I've been thinking about doing the coolant throttle body bypass thing but it does get crazy cold here in Wisconsin. One idea I had was to put some kind of valve on it so I could turn it off in the summer and back on before winter.

Good luck

TacoBello

What sucks about the 3G TL is that even under optimum conditions, it still pulls timing.

All I can think of is O2 sensors or heat soak, like Justn covered.

Does the "check engine" light appear for a second or two when you start the car? It should. If not, the previous owner may have pulled the bulb and is hiding some issue. I'd find someone with an obd2 scanner also and have them scan the car to see if the ECU logged any trouble codes.

If not, I'm leaning towards heat soak, again. What's the temperatures been like when the car feels sluggish and when the car feels fine?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

it shouldnt be heat soak if ambient temperatures are 60 degrees F and below.

only on real hot summer days with ambient temps in HIGH 90's is when I feel my car acting sluggish and its a 6MT.

if its doing it in the fall and winter, something else may be the culprit other than heat soak

Capone.

I live in Toronto Canada and the temps right now are pretty cold, but my car still holds back when stomping the gas. I reset the ECU by disconnecting the negative on the battery terminal, it seemed more responsible but didn't fix the issue. I'll check if the check engine light comes on to make sure nobody tampered with the bulb.

This may be a silly question, but what is an O2 sensor? And how do I get someone to run a code.. What would I ask from my mechanic?

And frankly, my engine does get pretty hot quite fast, at least that's what I've noticed. Strangely though the odd time, almost always in cold weather or cool weather, it will actually run perfect and I can run 0-60 in 6.3.. But lately it's become more rare for the car to do it. It's maybe one day a week it can run awesome but the other 6 days it holds back.

Thanks for the help so far guys!

Capone.

I'm thinking of running some Seafoam through the gas tank, just in case maybe the previous owner didn't run premium gas always.. I'm just getting desperate and I'm down to try anything.

TacoBello

The TL engine heats up in a jiffy. It always does. That's not unusual.

Just ask any mechanic to scan the ECU. They'll know what you're talking about. They will plug in a handheld device (OBDII scanner) into the ECU port, which allows them to see if any codes are being tripped. By the way, OBD stands for "on board diagnostics" and the II just refers to the version. All cars these days rely on OBDII.

O2 (oxygen) sensor is part of the exhaust. I believe the TL has two of them, if I'm not mistaken. They send info back to the ECU, letting it know what the emissions being produced by the engine are like. If the O2 sensor is failing, the ECU won't be getting the right info and will make the car start acting wonky.

TacoBello

I'm always afraid of that stuff (lol), but at this point, it can't hurt. I'd say it's worth a try, for sure. Just follow the directions appropriately.

Capone.

Great, ok I will give me mechanic a call Monday and ask him to do that for me. I guess I should also ask him to check the O2 sensor's while I'm at it? Do you know how much it might cost to have it/them replaced?

Also is there any codes or error that I or my mechanic should be looking for when scanning?

Capone.

Ok so here's some pics of what my dash looks like.

First pic - Turning on car
Second pic - On key turn II (Battery on but not engine)
Third pic - After waiting on key turn II one light goes away
Fourth pic - After engine has been turned on

Not sure if any of this helps. I'm new to cars on top of everything so I'm not sure what to look for on my dash but I don't think anything is missing on the dash, and I don't think theres anything wrong since all the lights are gone after start up.

TacoBello

If there is an issue with the o2 sensor, the car would throw a check engine light. I don't think physically looking at it will tell you much, unless it is caked in carbon deposits. Maybe someone else can chime in on this, though.

Nope, it looks fine. I can see the check engine light come on in pics 1 and 2, and disappear after. That's all you need. Because of that, you likely aren't throwing any new codes. You can still have your car scanned, but I'm guessing it won't turn up with anything.

I suggest you take the car to your mechanic and tell him your symptoms, as opposed to telling him what to fix. If you tell him what to fix, he will do just that, but that doesn't mean he's solving the issue. I'd get his opinion on it, and go from there. If you aren't sure with what he suggests, ask again on here and we can let you know if he is BSing you or not.

We can only speculate so much without seeing or driving the car.

Out of curiosity, is all your maintenance up to date? Is the air filter clean? When were your spark plugs changed last? When was the last valve adjustment done? Etc, etc, etc...

Capone.

Well I guess thats a good thing, but still an enigma to me. I changed the air filter a couple weeks ago, and I also put in brand new NGk laser iridium spark plugs a week ago, had an oil change a few weeks ago along with a tranny flush.. Valve adjustment I'm not too familiar with, should I get that done?

I do know that in 15,000 KM I am due for a new water pump and timing belt.. Not sure if an old timing belt could be the culprit?

This may be irrelevant but about 4 month ago I got my mid muffler deleted and swapped my stock resonator with a dynamo bullet.. Could something have gone wrong during installation?

Capone.

I tried using tiptronic and it wouldn't let me down shift, even if I was going 10 miles an hour it wouldn't let me downshift from 2 to 1.. but frankly, starting off from gear 2 my car would fly even from a stand still and my tires would screech, it felt great.

Does anyone think maybe my issue is caused by the automatic transmission? I am able to take off no issues on second gear tiptronic, but while using automatic, the car doesn't even pass 3300rpm.. Am I even hitting VTEC????

I don't know whats going on.

polobunny

You can't downshift from 2 to 1.

By the way, under any circumstances, you should NEVER downshift a car from 2 to 1 and surely not if it's a manual. Only until are you almost at a complete stop should you do that.

Capone.

Ok thanks, so I should just put it back on auto when I want to slow down?

Capone.

It seems like I can't pass 3300RPM.. Would that then indicate that it is the O2 sensor? Any idea how much they cost? I'm going to get it coded tomorrow, I won't wait until Monday.

polobunny

Simply let off the gas and press the brakes while in 2nd gear. The car will automatically change to 1st gear when coming to a near stop for you, even in tiptronic. If you look at the gear indicator you should be able to see it change to 1 on it's own.

Capone.

It's strange cause I remember stopping fully and it never dropped to one. If I am getting a lot better performance using tiptronic, should I use it all the time or is that a bad idea?

polobunny

There's no problem using tiptronic, however the performance should be similar from a start whether using tiptronic or full auto if you fully press the gas pedal.

I am starting to wonder if your problem is not caused by the transmission somehow, whether it has trouble engaging in first gear or not using it at all. If you are starting straight into second gear every time it's not surprising it does feel more sluggish. A transmission range switch issue could be the culprit.

Is your car "jerking"?

Here are the service manual scans regarding this:



















Otherwise you mention the RPM never go further than 3300rpm. This might be due to a faulty APP sensor (Accelerator Pedal Position sensor). If it doesn't sense your pedal as fully pressed in then obviously that might give you a sluggish feeling. This is difficult to test without a Honda Diagnostic System (HDS) and not all garages have this tool to check for special DTC codes.

I would first make sure to get the car checked by a garage with the HDS so they can look for DTC codes, then that can tell you what it is. APP sensor is not extremely costly to replace and would seem to explain your issue pretty well.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

is oil level at a sufficient level?

Capone.

Thank you for all of that. And what I meant was, when I use tiptronic at a stand still in second gear, I can feel way more push when I push the gas pedal down. But in automatic, I do not get this feeling at all.. I will ask my mechanic if they have HDS and to check for any codes, I believe they should have it since they specialize mostly in Honda/Acura. And no I do not feel any jerking, ever, it changes gears very smoothly.

Capone.

Yes 100%.

Jackass

Wait...you can't rev past 3300RPMs when trying to accelerate? I think the APP sensor has been mentioned already. The best way I found to test mine was to use cruise control. Your symptoms are different than mine were (mine was very jerky throttle response), but you should still be able to test it out.

1.) Find open road with little traffic
2.) Get up to speed and hold gear in 2nd to see if you can rev past 3300RPM.
3.) If you can't, continue to leave in 2nd, engage cruise and attempt to accelerate using the cruise control only.

If you can accelerate with cruise, good chance the APP sensor is bad. This test isn't perfect and isn't tested...I don't have an AUTO but this is similar to what I did in mine to isolate my issue.