Loose steering, even after comp bushings, PS pump, tie rods, UCAs, alignments
10-15-2016, 01:28 PM
#1
Loose steering, even after comp bushings, PS pump, tie rods, UCAs, alignments
2008 TL-S, about 100k miles. Stock.
Been battling a loose steering issue for the past year.
Shimmy at city & highway speeds, steering wheel wants to grab & follow the road unless I really hold it tightly, general unpredictable wandering where sometimes it wants to pull to the left & other times to the right. The only major pulling is when going over uneven roads like on the expressway where there's construction; I'll definitely run into the median if I don't have a tight grip & don't correct. If I'm on a 270degree off-ramp, feels like the steering wheel will fight me for a quick second as I try to keep the steering wheel at a certain angle to follow the curve.
2 year old tires are wearing very fast. One (primarily on the front) tire went bald already & had to be replaced. Others are going down & trying to save them with frequent rotations.
Hate to admit it but I don't have time to troubleshoot stuff anymore & the dealership raped me for the stuff mentioned in the title (compliance bushings, inner tie rods, upper control arms, power steering pump {was leaking}). Done at separate times so multiple alignments performed, all with 'green' passing colors. After 5 years of avoiding dealerships, I was hoping I could just "get it over with" but I guess nothing's changed.
But...loose steering still persists. Just feels as if I notice the loose steering MORE now that all that stuff has been replaced.
Aside from a (I hope not to be a) bad rack, what else could I be facing?
Been battling a loose steering issue for the past year.
Shimmy at city & highway speeds, steering wheel wants to grab & follow the road unless I really hold it tightly, general unpredictable wandering where sometimes it wants to pull to the left & other times to the right. The only major pulling is when going over uneven roads like on the expressway where there's construction; I'll definitely run into the median if I don't have a tight grip & don't correct. If I'm on a 270degree off-ramp, feels like the steering wheel will fight me for a quick second as I try to keep the steering wheel at a certain angle to follow the curve.
2 year old tires are wearing very fast. One (primarily on the front) tire went bald already & had to be replaced. Others are going down & trying to save them with frequent rotations.
Hate to admit it but I don't have time to troubleshoot stuff anymore & the dealership raped me for the stuff mentioned in the title (compliance bushings, inner tie rods, upper control arms, power steering pump {was leaking}). Done at separate times so multiple alignments performed, all with 'green' passing colors. After 5 years of avoiding dealerships, I was hoping I could just "get it over with" but I guess nothing's changed.
But...loose steering still persists. Just feels as if I notice the loose steering MORE now that all that stuff has been replaced.
Aside from a (I hope not to be a) bad rack, what else could I be facing?
Last edited by dudeinaTL; 10-15-2016 at 01:31 PM.
10-16-2016, 03:48 PM
#3
Senior Moderator
Show us the alignment sheets please! Also how are your motor mounts
10-16-2016, 11:14 PM
#4
Senior Moderator
Wandering sounds like your alignment is off or changing as you are driving...
Post the alignment sheet! Have you replaced the shocks? What brand of tires are you running? Are they installed properly (directional tires need to spin a certain way)
Post the alignment sheet! Have you replaced the shocks? What brand of tires are you running? Are they installed properly (directional tires need to spin a certain way)
10-17-2016, 09:08 AM
#5
End links - don't know condition, never replaced but no clunking.
Mounts - Front & side replaced within the past year. That fixed a lag/power-delay issue most noticeable from a stop. Didn't affect suspension/steering.
Shocks - original, never replaced, but no obvious leaks, clunks, bumpiness or a boat-like ride.
Tires - Eagle F1 Asymmetric
Last alignment from 2 months ago below. The before numbers are probably misleading because inner tie rods were replaced, so it wasn't a before alignment/after alignment deal; more like the before is after inner tie rod replacement and and after is after it was aligned. However, since then, my front left tire still observing noticeable wear on outside especially.
[Front-Left]
Camber = -0.3 {0, -1.0}
Caster = 2.9 {4.0, 2.5}
Toe = -0.02 {-0.08, 0.08} *** Before measurement RED @ 0.28 ***
[Front-Right]
Camber = -1.0 {-1.0, 0} **** Before measurement RED, but after measurement GREEN, but but both -1.0 ****
Caster = 2.7 {2.5, 4.0}
Toe = 0.01 {0.08, -0.08} *** Before measurement RED @ 0.22 ***
[Front]
Total Toe = 0.07 {-0.16, 0.16} *** Before measurement RED @ 0.50 ***
Thrust Angle = -0.03
[Rear-Left]
Camber = -1.3 {-0.5, -1.5}
Toe = 0.00 {-0.08, 0.08}
[Rear-Right]
Camber = -1.1 {-1.5, -0.5}
Toe = 0.07 {0.08, -0.08}
[Rear]
Total Toe = 0.07 {-0.16, 0.16}
Thrust Angle = -0.04
Mounts - Front & side replaced within the past year. That fixed a lag/power-delay issue most noticeable from a stop. Didn't affect suspension/steering.
Shocks - original, never replaced, but no obvious leaks, clunks, bumpiness or a boat-like ride.
Tires - Eagle F1 Asymmetric
Last alignment from 2 months ago below. The before numbers are probably misleading because inner tie rods were replaced, so it wasn't a before alignment/after alignment deal; more like the before is after inner tie rod replacement and and after is after it was aligned. However, since then, my front left tire still observing noticeable wear on outside especially.
[Front-Left]
Camber = -0.3 {0, -1.0}
Caster = 2.9 {4.0, 2.5}
Toe = -0.02 {-0.08, 0.08} *** Before measurement RED @ 0.28 ***
[Front-Right]
Camber = -1.0 {-1.0, 0} **** Before measurement RED, but after measurement GREEN, but but both -1.0 ****
Caster = 2.7 {2.5, 4.0}
Toe = 0.01 {0.08, -0.08} *** Before measurement RED @ 0.22 ***
[Front]
Total Toe = 0.07 {-0.16, 0.16} *** Before measurement RED @ 0.50 ***
Thrust Angle = -0.03
[Rear-Left]
Camber = -1.3 {-0.5, -1.5}
Toe = 0.00 {-0.08, 0.08}
[Rear-Right]
Camber = -1.1 {-1.5, -0.5}
Toe = 0.07 {0.08, -0.08}
[Rear]
Total Toe = 0.07 {-0.16, 0.16}
Thrust Angle = -0.04
Last edited by dudeinaTL; 10-17-2016 at 09:14 AM.
10-17-2016, 11:42 AM
#6
Suzuka Master
just wondering did you had the dealer check your steering rack? When my TL felt wobble I had them check and came back with a leaked steering rack locate on the rubber boots, drove for a year and replace the rack everything feel good again. BTW the leak was discovered around 95k miles.
10-17-2016, 12:01 PM
#7
End links won't make a clunk sound. When one of mine broke the only sound was when the ball came out of the socket. Check those and let us know your findings. Hopefully we can point you in the right direction as I am sure you are sick of this issue. I know I would be!
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10-18-2016, 02:09 AM
#8
Senior Moderator
Get the toe zeroed out! having toe can cause the car to be skittish
you can have the alignment place add a bit more negative camber to the front left to reduce outer wear on the front left tire. My vote is your shocks are worn after 100K miles.
As far as the shimmy, have the tires balanced! Also check your axles for excessive play at the joints!
you can have the alignment place add a bit more negative camber to the front left to reduce outer wear on the front left tire. My vote is your shocks are worn after 100K miles.
As far as the shimmy, have the tires balanced! Also check your axles for excessive play at the joints!
10-21-2016, 12:46 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
you mentioned your tires are wearing quickly which indicates a bad alignment.
now with the spec's i see above. You need to 0.00 the toe in the front.
After I got my transmission rebuilt. I definitely needed an alignment but waited to see if the rebuilt doesnt explode on me.
My steering was similar to yours where it will drift to one side and I'd have to pull.
Finally got my alignment done but since the tires wore a bit and now its straight. I still get some slight pull which will go away once I wear the tires in more with this alignment.
I do believe for you its a combination of bad tires and alignment.
now with the spec's i see above. You need to 0.00 the toe in the front.
After I got my transmission rebuilt. I definitely needed an alignment but waited to see if the rebuilt doesnt explode on me.
My steering was similar to yours where it will drift to one side and I'd have to pull.
Finally got my alignment done but since the tires wore a bit and now its straight. I still get some slight pull which will go away once I wear the tires in more with this alignment.
I do believe for you its a combination of bad tires and alignment.
10-27-2016, 08:58 AM
#10
truonghthe - I assume they checked the major stuff like the rack. My PS pump had a leak, which was replaced.
BreezyTL - checked the end links with a pry bar, they felt pretty solid to me @ the ball joints.
csmeance/flyromeo3 - toe is at -0.02 & +0.01 - is that truly significant enough to cause tires to visibly get worn out in a matter of months with no change in driving style? I've gotten alignments before in this car where I'm sure the toe wasn't spot on @ 0 and it didn't have this skittish steering feeling.
While I do agree the previous stuff could've worn out the tires to the point where it's best to throw new ones on, I just don't want to throw a new set on if the root cause isn't really fixed.
Shocks might be near the end-of-life, but could they really cause loose steering/worn tires? Same thing with axles. Everything I've gotten replaced in the title I felt directly impacts steering - I obviously don't know everything if I'm asking questions but I just don't want to spend more money & not get it resolved.
BreezyTL - checked the end links with a pry bar, they felt pretty solid to me @ the ball joints.
csmeance/flyromeo3 - toe is at -0.02 & +0.01 - is that truly significant enough to cause tires to visibly get worn out in a matter of months with no change in driving style? I've gotten alignments before in this car where I'm sure the toe wasn't spot on @ 0 and it didn't have this skittish steering feeling.
While I do agree the previous stuff could've worn out the tires to the point where it's best to throw new ones on, I just don't want to throw a new set on if the root cause isn't really fixed.
Shocks might be near the end-of-life, but could they really cause loose steering/worn tires? Same thing with axles. Everything I've gotten replaced in the title I felt directly impacts steering - I obviously don't know everything if I'm asking questions but I just don't want to spend more money & not get it resolved.
10-28-2016, 01:03 PM
#11
Suzuka Master
truonghthe - I assume they checked the major stuff like the rack. My PS pump had a leak, which was replaced.
BreezyTL - checked the end links with a pry bar, they felt pretty solid to me @ the ball joints.
csmeance/flyromeo3 - toe is at -0.02 & +0.01 - is that truly significant enough to cause tires to visibly get worn out in a matter of months with no change in driving style? I've gotten alignments before in this car where I'm sure the toe wasn't spot on @ 0 and it didn't have this skittish steering feeling.
While I do agree the previous stuff could've worn out the tires to the point where it's best to throw new ones on, I just don't want to throw a new set on if the root cause isn't really fixed.
Shocks might be near the end-of-life, but could they really cause loose steering/worn tires? Same thing with axles. Everything I've gotten replaced in the title I felt directly impacts steering - I obviously don't know everything if I'm asking questions but I just don't want to spend more money & not get it resolved.
BreezyTL - checked the end links with a pry bar, they felt pretty solid to me @ the ball joints.
csmeance/flyromeo3 - toe is at -0.02 & +0.01 - is that truly significant enough to cause tires to visibly get worn out in a matter of months with no change in driving style? I've gotten alignments before in this car where I'm sure the toe wasn't spot on @ 0 and it didn't have this skittish steering feeling.
While I do agree the previous stuff could've worn out the tires to the point where it's best to throw new ones on, I just don't want to throw a new set on if the root cause isn't really fixed.
Shocks might be near the end-of-life, but could they really cause loose steering/worn tires? Same thing with axles. Everything I've gotten replaced in the title I felt directly impacts steering - I obviously don't know everything if I'm asking questions but I just don't want to spend more money & not get it resolved.
Well the dealer didn't tell me my rack is shot until I ask them to inspect it.