Justnspace vs J32/J37
08-04-2014, 06:29 PM
#82
Senior Moderator
Impressive, Justin. 
08-04-2014, 10:04 PM
#83
Your Friendly Canadian
Join Date: Dec 2007
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08-06-2014, 07:55 PM
#85
Senior Moderator
How many hours have you logged working on the car, Justin?
08-06-2014, 08:15 PM
#86
^actually not much at all.
it took 2 days to completely tear down the engine.
I got stuck on the crank bolt and I didnt bother with it for a week.
then another day to get where I am at right now.
because I dont know what I'm doing, studying takes up most of the time.
making sure I know what I'm doing before proceeding.
having the right parts and tools also helps.
a week or two, I was waiting for parts to arrive.
even tho, I did my homework, sometimes, you just get things wrong. mistakes, that you learn for next time.
it took 2 days to completely tear down the engine.
I got stuck on the crank bolt and I didnt bother with it for a week.
then another day to get where I am at right now.
because I dont know what I'm doing, studying takes up most of the time.
making sure I know what I'm doing before proceeding.
having the right parts and tools also helps.
a week or two, I was waiting for parts to arrive.
even tho, I did my homework, sometimes, you just get things wrong. mistakes, that you learn for next time.
08-06-2014, 10:02 PM
#87
Senior Moderator
^actually not much at all.
it took 2 days to completely tear down the engine.
I got stuck on the crank bolt and I didnt bother with it for a week.
then another day to get where I am at right now.
because I dont know what I'm doing, studying takes up most of the time.
making sure I know what I'm doing before proceeding.
having the right parts and tools also helps.
a week or two, I was waiting for parts to arrive.
even tho, I did my homework, sometimes, you just get things wrong. mistakes, that you learn for next time.
it took 2 days to completely tear down the engine.
I got stuck on the crank bolt and I didnt bother with it for a week.
then another day to get where I am at right now.
because I dont know what I'm doing, studying takes up most of the time.
making sure I know what I'm doing before proceeding.
having the right parts and tools also helps.
a week or two, I was waiting for parts to arrive.
even tho, I did my homework, sometimes, you just get things wrong. mistakes, that you learn for next time.
08-06-2014, 10:06 PM
#88
Race Director
08-06-2014, 10:54 PM
#89
Your Friendly Canadian
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Age: 31
Posts: 17,431
Received 1,485 Likes
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Learning by doing is the best way.
08-07-2014, 06:36 AM
#90
Funny you say that...I tried swapping to the oem bolt but didn't have the tool (sold it after I was able to have the cp bolt removed with a gun by just holding the brake)...so I had my wife holding the brake and could NOT get my torque wrench to click with all the play from the belt movement. 
08-10-2014, 12:32 AM
#92
Drifting
I didn't read everything, but if the timing belt jumps or skips and notch, it won't run right. Happened to me on a 3000GT once. But there was visible damage to the timing belt cover AND most importantly, I HEARD the valves hit the pistons. It sounds like high pitch tapping or clicks and bam.. engine died. haha it cost me about 2,500
actually, I think my timing belt completely broke.. its been a long time. but I know it wouldnt re-start. It just died. me and a friend was in austin driving.. we werent hot rodding or anything.. it just went click click click click cough.. and a tad bit of smoke from the belt rubbing on the plastic cover. and it died.. it wouldnt start up again.
actually, I think my timing belt completely broke.. its been a long time. but I know it wouldnt re-start. It just died. me and a friend was in austin driving.. we werent hot rodding or anything.. it just went click click click click cough.. and a tad bit of smoke from the belt rubbing on the plastic cover. and it died.. it wouldnt start up again.
Last edited by Chad05TL; 08-10-2014 at 12:39 AM.
08-10-2014, 01:03 AM
#93
Drifting
I did the heads on my LT1 camaro once, and each head had to be bolted down with stretch bolts I think, and they had to be tightened is a specific sequence at a specific torque.
Also, the rocker arms are the same way. I do not know if you took off your rocker arms or not, but mine all came apart. There is a procedure for tightening those too. A sequence as you turn the crank, and also specific torque. I got 1 valve too tight.. and when I started it, it had a lope. And I was like Crap! So, I had it towed to a guy that did custom work out of his house, and he found which cylinder had the problem by doing a compression check. Since he knew what I did with the heads, he went straight to that rocker arm and readjusted it.. and it worked fine. It took him a day and paid him a measly $125. GM mechanics would not have found the problem. I got off pretty good.
Also, the rocker arms are the same way. I do not know if you took off your rocker arms or not, but mine all came apart. There is a procedure for tightening those too. A sequence as you turn the crank, and also specific torque. I got 1 valve too tight.. and when I started it, it had a lope. And I was like Crap! So, I had it towed to a guy that did custom work out of his house, and he found which cylinder had the problem by doing a compression check. Since he knew what I did with the heads, he went straight to that rocker arm and readjusted it.. and it worked fine. It took him a day and paid him a measly $125. GM mechanics would not have found the problem. I got off pretty good.
Last edited by Chad05TL; 08-10-2014 at 01:06 AM.
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I hate cars (08-10-2014)
08-10-2014, 08:19 AM
#95
Justin:
Pay close attention to the orientation of how the old spark plug gaskets come out so you know how to put the new ones back in. I fucked up 2 different sets of new ones before figuring it out and how to slide them onto the sharp edge of the plug chamber and torque down without damaging them.
As far as removal, it's rubber on a metal area that sits deep in there, the outer ring has that wire spring that keeps pressure on the spark tube...if you use a pick to remove it you'll just tear the rubber and rip the spring out. I used my large sized harbor freight cheap angled pry bar to really get under the lip of it and use the opposite edge as leverage, if that makes sense. Lay it flat on the ground and go to town paying attention not to too badly mess up the aluminum.
To put back in, I lubed with fresh oil, pressed into place, then used a piece of wood and rubber mallet to gently seat it perfectly.
Pay close attention to the orientation of how the old spark plug gaskets come out so you know how to put the new ones back in. I fucked up 2 different sets of new ones before figuring it out and how to slide them onto the sharp edge of the plug chamber and torque down without damaging them.
As far as removal, it's rubber on a metal area that sits deep in there, the outer ring has that wire spring that keeps pressure on the spark tube...if you use a pick to remove it you'll just tear the rubber and rip the spring out. I used my large sized harbor freight cheap angled pry bar to really get under the lip of it and use the opposite edge as leverage, if that makes sense. Lay it flat on the ground and go to town paying attention not to too badly mess up the aluminum.
To put back in, I lubed with fresh oil, pressed into place, then used a piece of wood and rubber mallet to gently seat it perfectly.
The following 2 users liked this post by rockstar143:
justnspace (08-10-2014),
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08-10-2014, 11:58 AM
#98
so, I'm waiting on Go no go valve feeler guides and some wrinkle red paint.
Here's what I have left to do:
- finish installing timing belt.
- finish stripping valve covers and paint them.
- adjust valves.
- put on valve covers
- put everything back together.
I'm almost there.
Here's what I have left to do:
- finish installing timing belt.
- finish stripping valve covers and paint them.
- adjust valves.
- put on valve covers
- put everything back together.
I'm almost there.
08-10-2014, 02:32 PM
#101
Team Owner
When our GNs were being built up and the factory head seal was being broken either for porting the stock heads or for installing aftermarket heads, the headgaskets were always easier to blow. We eventually learned that unless you want to go quicker than 10.70s, don't pull the factory heads because it wasn't worth the hassle of having easier to blow gaskets.
After investigating, we learned that at the factory, there's a machine that does all 8 head bolts at the same time and this was the key to making it hold together. Obviously we couldn't have 8 guys there at the same time with torque wrenches in hand but we could get a little closer to that by torquing in much smaller increments. Sometimes I tighten the heads in 10 increments, almost evenly spaced. It's not a bad idea to do this, bring torque on the heads up gradually in more steps than what the factory has you do. It's not necessary on a TL, especially a naturally aspirated TL but it's not a bad idea either. It's really not important but I figured since we were kind of sort of on the subject....
08-10-2014, 03:42 PM
#103
I bet you didn't...
I can't help but do the same, after having done the timing belt I keep thinking what if I didn't torque something right etc...but then, it's fine and it's just me worrying.
I'm sure you'll come out on top.
I can't help but do the same, after having done the timing belt I keep thinking what if I didn't torque something right etc...but then, it's fine and it's just me worrying.
I'm sure you'll come out on top.
08-10-2014, 06:23 PM
#104
Justin, I know you're way ahead of the game, you obviously have done your research, used new bolts, and tightened the correct way. I just wanted to add one thing and I'm probably too late but here goes...
When our GNs were being built up and the factory head seal was being broken either for porting the stock heads or for installing aftermarket heads, the headgaskets were always easier to blow. We eventually learned that unless you want to go quicker than 10.70s, don't pull the factory heads because it wasn't worth the hassle of having easier to blow gaskets.
After investigating, we learned that at the factory, there's a machine that does all 8 head bolts at the same time and this was the key to making it hold together. Obviously we couldn't have 8 guys there at the same time with torque wrenches in hand but we could get a little closer to that by torquing in much smaller increments. Sometimes I tighten the heads in 10 increments, almost evenly spaced. It's not a bad idea to do this, bring torque on the heads up gradually in more steps than what the factory has you do. It's not necessary on a TL, especially a naturally aspirated TL but it's not a bad idea either. It's really not important but I figured since we were kind of sort of on the subject....
When our GNs were being built up and the factory head seal was being broken either for porting the stock heads or for installing aftermarket heads, the headgaskets were always easier to blow. We eventually learned that unless you want to go quicker than 10.70s, don't pull the factory heads because it wasn't worth the hassle of having easier to blow gaskets.
After investigating, we learned that at the factory, there's a machine that does all 8 head bolts at the same time and this was the key to making it hold together. Obviously we couldn't have 8 guys there at the same time with torque wrenches in hand but we could get a little closer to that by torquing in much smaller increments. Sometimes I tighten the heads in 10 increments, almost evenly spaced. It's not a bad idea to do this, bring torque on the heads up gradually in more steps than what the factory has you do. It's not necessary on a TL, especially a naturally aspirated TL but it's not a bad idea either. It's really not important but I figured since we were kind of sort of on the subject....
08-10-2014, 08:20 PM
#105
Three Wheelin'
Do these heads have vtec on the exhaust side? If so, how will this work correctly?
08-10-2014, 11:16 PM
#107
Three Wheelin'
Sounds like you're talking about the engines? I thought vtec was inherent in the heads, and since you're using a j37 head, I was wondering how the variable valve timing hardware in the head was going to work with your ECU. I don't know much about these things, sry. Trying to learn as I go.
08-11-2014, 12:01 AM
#109
Drifting
on a totally different note... I have seen cars that hit the rev limiter and they drove bad until it was shutoff and allowed the ecm to reset. Even my Camaro did that once. I thought I totally messed up my engine. The car had no power and I limped it all the way home.. I knew my car was screwed.. But somehow, the next time I started it, like the next day, it ran fine. So I was relieved. But even Honda has a service bulletin or an advisory of some kind that says the ECM is just like any other computer that sometimes it can get confused and it needs a reboot.
So, basically, the reason I posted because it seems like you tore into you motor really fast without really knowing what was wrong (by your own admission) and started pulling things and you might not have needed to do that. But I have learned one thing.. Your TL sure had a lot of carbon build up. I might get some cleaner for my engine.
I guess this is a good time to do a mod on your intake or exhaust, but if you change it too much, the ECM may not like it. Many times when modders make a change on their block or heads, they have to reprogram the ECM. So, I would be careful what you do. Like where can you get a custom program for a TL? This ain't a Camaro or a Corvette that has a mod shop in every city. anyway.. just my 2cents.
So, basically, the reason I posted because it seems like you tore into you motor really fast without really knowing what was wrong (by your own admission) and started pulling things and you might not have needed to do that. But I have learned one thing.. Your TL sure had a lot of carbon build up. I might get some cleaner for my engine.
I guess this is a good time to do a mod on your intake or exhaust, but if you change it too much, the ECM may not like it. Many times when modders make a change on their block or heads, they have to reprogram the ECM. So, I would be careful what you do. Like where can you get a custom program for a TL? This ain't a Camaro or a Corvette that has a mod shop in every city. anyway.. just my 2cents.
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TLDude876 (08-17-2014)
08-11-2014, 12:02 AM
#110
Registered Bike Offender
iTrader: (3)
J has some valuable advice on those spark plug tube seals. If you don't have a piece of wood, find a socket that just barely fits the diameter of the tube and use a rubber mallet.
As soon as I found out those new j37 heads had this, I immediately really really wanted to do it. No time, no money tho.
As soon as I found out those new j37 heads had this, I immediately really really wanted to do it. No time, no money tho.
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rockstar143 (08-13-2014)
08-11-2014, 05:20 AM
#111
Sounds like you're talking about the engines? I thought vtec was inherent in the heads, and since you're using a j37 head, I was wondering how the variable valve timing hardware in the head was going to work with your ECU. I don't know much about these things, sry. Trying to learn as I go.
yungone501's post #20 here has excellent pics and an explanation of how VTEC works on the J37A4 - https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ighlight=j37a4
I don't know how much benefit there'd be by using VTEC on the exhaust side considering how limited lift is on the intake, but it would be interesting to see.
Last edited by screaminz28; 08-11-2014 at 05:28 AM. Reason: added link
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FamilyGuy (08-12-2014)
08-12-2014, 11:44 PM
#113
Really cant wait to get started with mines
08-13-2014, 12:05 PM
#114
Here I come!
Justin:
Pay close attention to the orientation of how the old spark plug gaskets come out so you know how to put the new ones back in. I fucked up 2 different sets of new ones before figuring it out and how to slide them onto the sharp edge of the plug chamber and torque down without damaging them.
As far as removal, it's rubber on a metal area that sits deep in there, the outer ring has that wire spring that keeps pressure on the spark tube...if you use a pick to remove it you'll just tear the rubber and rip the spring out. I used my large sized harbor freight cheap angled pry bar to really get under the lip of it and use the opposite edge as leverage, if that makes sense. Lay it flat on the ground and go to town paying attention not to too badly mess up the aluminum.
To put back in, I lubed with fresh oil, pressed into place, then used a piece of wood and rubber mallet to gently seat it perfectly.
Pay close attention to the orientation of how the old spark plug gaskets come out so you know how to put the new ones back in. I fucked up 2 different sets of new ones before figuring it out and how to slide them onto the sharp edge of the plug chamber and torque down without damaging them.
As far as removal, it's rubber on a metal area that sits deep in there, the outer ring has that wire spring that keeps pressure on the spark tube...if you use a pick to remove it you'll just tear the rubber and rip the spring out. I used my large sized harbor freight cheap angled pry bar to really get under the lip of it and use the opposite edge as leverage, if that makes sense. Lay it flat on the ground and go to town paying attention not to too badly mess up the aluminum.
To put back in, I lubed with fresh oil, pressed into place, then used a piece of wood and rubber mallet to gently seat it perfectly.
http://www.harborfreight.com/seal-puller-35556.html
I've used it to change output shaft seals and spark plug tube seals. Works great and with less threat to the metal surface.
The following 2 users liked this post by Houston:
justnspace (08-13-2014),
Vlad_Type_S (08-13-2014)
08-15-2014, 10:43 PM
#116
Bump?
08-16-2014, 12:02 AM
#117
IHC's was dead on with his explanation on the cylinder head bolt torquing procedure and reasoning behind it all. VERY proper thing to do when getting to this stage of the job. I myself have always done this too for the exact same reason. I'm probably worse than what he explained to be as I generally take it to the extremities of 3-5ft lb increments depending on the engine and type of gasket material.
If I'm not mistaken, Ferrari originally used this in their production process.
How are things going Brian? I see you've opened up a BIG ASS can of worms on the valve covers. Pardon me while I lol in the remembrance of my own torment I too went through the first set I ever tackled when going through my powder coating binge years back. I quickly learned that the best way to jump that hurdle was paying an actual powder coating shop the measly $10 per cover for industrial sand blasting. I don't know what Honda used to coat them but it's the most durable finish Ive ever seen to date.
Reading back through your thread, you were asking/mentioning something about the alignment of the pulley with the mark on the head....what was this about?
If I'm not mistaken, Ferrari originally used this in their production process.
How are things going Brian? I see you've opened up a BIG ASS can of worms on the valve covers. Pardon me while I lol in the remembrance of my own torment I too went through the first set I ever tackled when going through my powder coating binge years back. I quickly learned that the best way to jump that hurdle was paying an actual powder coating shop the measly $10 per cover for industrial sand blasting. I don't know what Honda used to coat them but it's the most durable finish Ive ever seen to date.
Reading back through your thread, you were asking/mentioning something about the alignment of the pulley with the mark on the head....what was this about?
