stever627

I've had tons of problems with my TL, that I no longer have, but nonetheless, I am still dealing with Acura in an attempt to get back some of the money I had to pay.

I know of at least one other person, but has anyone else had their clutch fail? Mine failed 3 times. Once at 5k miles, again at 14k miles, and again at 21k miles. The first 2 were covered under warranty as a problem was found each time. No problem was found the third time and it was blamed on me and thus I had to pay. Basically, the service manager said that he hasn't replaced any clutches on the 3g TL's yet, except the 2 that he did for me (1st was done at a different dealer).

I've already had the district rep involved and already have a lawyer, but I just wanted to gather some details on any major clutch problems anyone has had.

Before anyone comments about learning how to drive stick...I know how to drive stick...I've also read Southern Boys posts many times and was proud that I actually followed most of his recommendations. I've also logged well over 150k miles on various stick shifts (cars, bikes, etc) and have never burnt out a clutch. I need to convince the dealer it is not me, but the burden of proof is on me!

Please help.

stever627

more details can be provided if need be. also, I have other posts regarding the other failures if you search me.

KilroyR1

It sure sounds like somebody doesn't know how to put a clutch in. My clutch is original and I have no issues in 26,000 miles. I don't get stuck in many traffic jams, so I hope to get at least 100K out of mine.

stever627

maybe not that, but someone doesn't know how to diagnose...

ussi

iTrader: (1)

i had this happen to me... read my thread
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...th+coast+acura

blktl1

I am pretty hard on my clutch on a daily basis and it is still holding up very well!
The way i see it, under normal circumstances when installed an driven correctly, you should not have to replace a clutch in most cars for the life of them. my father had a honda accord with 230,000 miles on it as his commuter car with the original clutch and sold it with the original clutch. there is obviously something wrong with the install or maybe they are just replacing the clutch plate and your throwout bearing or pressure plate is bad. i would question exactly what parts were replaced both times the job was done!

blktl1

oh and by the way I have about 50k on the car!

stever627

yes, you were the other person i was referring to


the first time, only the throw out bearing, pressure and clutch plate. the second time, they thought that the problem was bc the flywheel was all burned up from the first time and that caused premature where and lead to the second failure. the second time it was replaced, the throwout bearing, clutch plate, pressure plate, flywheel, clutch master and clutch slave cylinders were replaced. the third time (the one I paid for) all the same parts were replaced except the hydraulics.

JOES05tl

I had my clutch die @ about 32000 miles. The shop that did the work for me showed me the old clutch disk, which had nearly ripped into two pieces. Alot of the friction material was torn off. Replaced with comptech cl-s clutch & flywheel, and bought factory pressure plate and throwout bearing. I now have 35,000 and my clutch is acting up? It got stuck in second gear the other day, pushed the clutch pedal all the way down, car was still pushing in 2nd gear couldnt get out of gear until car was off. Took it back to the place of install, and got nothing from them except there arguments about how they did a good job and must have if I was able to drive it home from their shop. If your in for a lawsuit, I should be too!

stever627

maybe i should specify if anyone has "premature" wear. If I put 35k miles on the car and went through one clutch, i'd be pissed, but would realize that it was my fault. however at 5k, 14k, and 21k, i KNOW that this is not my fault.

i feel for you both though

blktl1

yeah, there is definately something wrong there! I would definately challenge that one!

SouthernBoy

Well since you have read my posts (and I thank you for that), you are obviously aware that the three primary causes of premature clutch failure are: poor design, improper installation, and operator error. I would surmise from your post that it is either #1 or #2.

I'll vote for #2 mostly due to the fact that most all owners of the manual TLs have not experienced the problems you describe. That would indicate that the design is solid. Which leaves us with the installation, and I should add another item.. operational support components, such as the hydraulic system which engages and disengages the clutch assembly. And that's where I would start my investigation.

sdaeb02

ditto for me.....35K, needed new clutch. After 2 visits back to dealer, my synchro mesh is still messed up. I'm thinking about getting an attorney, because I'm over this crap. Ac corporate was no help either....

stever627

problem is i don't have the car anymore, so i can't investigate anything more. i had to get rid of the car because at the rate the clutch was failing, i could not afford to replace the clutch another time before my arbitration date with acura. i do however have the last clutch disk, pressure plate, flywheel and throwout in my possesion though. the clutch disk and flywheel are clearly burned up.

In response to the support components, the hydraulic system was replaced after the second clutch failure.

Some more info that I can provide...
The first time it happened, I had a little bit of warning I guess you could say. The clutch seemed a little lighter than it had been, but I just chalked it up to being broken in, and then one day it went, and it failed/burned up all in one shot as I was going 70 mph for a good 20 miles. Yes the one shot idea is just my theory, but up until this point, I had never smelled clutch in this car and within seconds the clutch had no "grab" so to speak and the cabin was filled with smoke and clutch smell...I wonder if we could bottle that scent and make a new cologne!!!!

anyway, the second and third time, it happened, it was a very similar scenario. I was driving at highway speeds and that is when the clutch failed. I wasn't shifting or anything, it just started to slip, the rpms went up, cabin fills with smoke and smell and that's it. maybe this extra info will help someone come up with an idea of what happened. im guessing something malfunctioned, or did not work properly at the higher speed. i really don't know...I'm just speculating.

I might also mention another theory I have...right before the last clutch repair, I had actually scheduled an appointment to have my E-brake adjusted. It was taking about 14-17 clicks to engage fully. I didn't really know this was an issue until I drove a friend's TL. When I pulled up his E-brake, it was about 3-4 clicks and it was tight. I didn't really park much on a hill, but could the slight incline of my driveway, and the car being in gear and not having the E-brake completely holding it cause the problem? If so, that would be great, because the E-break was ALWAYS that way and it was covered under warranty...so that might be a culprit.

I might also mention that the car had some engine work done under warranty as well. I don't remember exactly what happened or what parts were wrong, but both of my catalytic converters had melted, piston 6 was misfiring, the rods and valves were bent and the whole cylinder head was replaced...all under warranty. I also had issues with the tires having some snapped steel belts in the first few hundred miles (not on Acura, but nonetheless a pain in my ass)

Somehow, the service manager doesn't think that this car is defective

I'm sorry for the longwindedness, but I am just trying to put out as much info as possible to help you guys figure out what might be taking place.

SouthernBoy

First off, nice job of describing your problems.. well done.

In your third failure, you said you were driving at highway speed and the clutch just started to slip. As you know the pressure plate clamps the clutch disk between it and the flywheel via springs in the pressure plate. For it to start slipping would seem to indicate that somehow the release bearing starts pulling on the pressure plate fingers or maybe something else. Perhaps somehow, oil is getting on the surface of the clutch components and causing the slip. I say this only because of the engine work you mentioned. Usually when a hydraulic clutch control system begins to fail, it manifests itself in failure to completely engage and disengage the clutch assembly. Your description of every thing being fine until suddenly it starts to slip would seem to point to some other problem.

Please keep us up to date on this one.

triggle

They should have covered the first one since there is a TSB out on it.

6spMike

Here's a theory:
The linkage from the pedal to the clutch master cylinder is the wrong length.
Normally, when the pedal is at the top of it's stroke (your foot is off of it), the piston in the master cylinder uncovers a hole that allows access to the reservior. This allows any extra pressure to push fluid back into the reservior, or allows more fluid to flow into the system, whichever is needed.
If the piston doesn't return far enough to uncover the hole, it wouldn't allow extra fluid back to the reservior. Normal clutch wear results in less fluid being needed in the system, and having to go back to the reservior. Eventually it's like the clutch is always depressed. That fits with the symptoms you describe.
An FYI - If you notice that the clutch is slipping, immediately let up on the gas. By going easy on the gas and using lower gears, you can probably get hundreds if not thousands of more miles out of it.

Nitrotiger

i have almost 80k on mine and i beat the snot out of this car Go for the law suit

painter

If I were in this situation, I would find out who bought the car after I traded it, and I'd get in touch with the new owner in order to monitor the life of the current clutch. Assuming it is a problem with the vehicle, it should fail soon. Then the two of you can join forces to get compensation. Locating the current owner is easy in Ontario....all you need is the VIN and $20 for a seller's vehicle package which lists all owners. Hopefully there is something similar where you live.

I'm with Southernboy.....a good bet would be oil getting into the clutch. Save those parts, they may help you down the road. Good luck.

stever627

I honestly feel bad for whoever gets the car. It is a piece of shit. Engine work, tires, ebrake, 3 failed clutches, rattles, all kinds of stuff. I wouldn't want this guy to know who I am, lol. And my luck, maybe the third time's a charm and they fixed it right...so I'd look like a jackass and it really would look like it's my fault. I do really love and miss the TL, and I feel that Acura has done a great injustice to me and will never purchase a Honda product again (TL was my fourth), unless they somehow come through and make it right

I do however not think that I did anything wrong by trading in this vehicle. As far as I am concerned, Acura gave it a clean bill of health and ensured me over and over, that there is nothing wrong with the vehicle.

if someone can point me to the TSB mentioned a few posts back, that would be great. Thanks guys for all of your help and input thus far, but without any concrete evidence and speculation only, I might just have to wait for the "impartial third party"...blah

stever627

is anyone here qualified to be an "expert witness"? lol

triggle

My bad. It is not a TSB but a service news heads up kind of warning about the disk sticking on the splines. The bulletin in Oct 2003

https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/who-wants-give-me-%245-129196/

nuresh

Correct me if I am wrong don’t they have to buy the car back under the lemon law if the same problem keeps on coming back (3 times I think).

stever627

the should have to, but apparently, it isn't as cut and dry as that...there is a long process to it

being that they are now blaming the problem on me, i'm sure that makes an exception to the rule. im banking on the fact that it was off the road for a certain amount of days over a certain period for all of the other problems that I took it in for!

pvr

I have a 2004 TL with 75,000 kms, just a week ago, my clutch gave out. I could'nt engage the clutch while travelling on the highway. It actually started acting wierd two days prior to it. Acura is saying that they wouldnt cover the parts and labour due to fact that is it wear and tear. I had to disagree with them, so I took it to an independent mechanic to have it fixed. My mechinc is saying that it doenst look like it was abuse, and also the clutch shouldnt go that soon. Now Iam thinking of bringing them to small claims court for my incured expenses. And for the record! I have to replace the pressure plate, disk, bering and the flywheel. I also tried to talk to Acura Canada. and they said the same old excuse that they are not covering the expenses. My reply is I'll bring you guys to small claims court.
Please feel free to get back to me on this matter if you have the chance. I would greatly appreciate it.

6spMike

I doubt you'll get very far with getting someone else to pay for it. 75,000 km or around 50,000 mi is a long time for it to last if there was a defect.
Don't shoot the messenger, but you may have some habits that are contributing to the wear.
Read Southernboy's posts about how to correctly drive a manual, and see if you can improve your technique. Hopefully the clutch you just bought will last 200,000 km or more.

zims2730

I'm having the same issues, 5k and have had the car 2.5 months, and they won't cover it!!!

dejavecu

I had the same problem, although, it was certified at 25 k when I bought it. After a lot of back and forth, they repaired it as a Goodwill repair. However, after there "charity" fix, I did not feel any goodwill.

94eg!

This problem can also be caused by a miss-adjusted clutch pedal. If it's been setup without enough travel, depressing the pedal won't "fully" disengage the clutch. This will cause it to drag & heat up when ever you shift or come to a stop while holding the pedal down. The major symptoms would be a pedal that grabs VERY low in its stroke, and a transmission that would be very difficult to get into first from a stop or down-shift without double-clutching. I doubt this problem would cause a sudden failure while traveling @ freeway speeds though, since the clutch remains fully engaged when the pedal is out.

The other possibility is a pedal adjustment that doesn't have the required amount of "free-play" when it's fully disengaged. When letting the pedal out, there should be a point where it simply stops pushing on the master cylinder. You can typically feel the tiny amount of free-play by gently tapping on the clutch pedal (brake pedal too). There must be a tiny amount of movement in the pedal before it actually starts moving any fluid and operating the clutch. Without this play, the master cylinder is constantly applying fluid pressure to the pressure plate. This is effectively opening the clutch ever-so-slightly all the time. The major symptom would be a very high grab/release point in the pedal stroke, and clutch slipping when applying lots of engine torque or fighting a grade in a high gear.

As for the "oil on the" clutch idea, that would be VERY obvious upon removing the transmission...