Chad05TL

Has anyone ever used this on a 3.2 TL? How did it go?

Motor Medic 5-Minute Motor Flush, 32 oz: Motor Oil, Transmission Fluid & Car Lubricant : Walmart.com

eastcoastguy

I was always told not to use stuff like this. If you changed your oil regularly you shouldnt have a ton of stuff built up in the engine, therefore not needing to flush it. If you do have stuff built up in the engine and you use the flush then you could clog up parts of the engine. Just my

Vlad_Type_S

iTrader: (3)

^This.

Just use a high quality synthetic and change it at the correct interval.

cipdagr3at

Ive used it before. No issues at all. Im hitting over 215K

Chad05TL

I used it on previous gm cars with no issues. I was wonder if it would help solve any cold idle issues...thought i might try it. The bottle says dont run it longer than 5 minutes. And to minimize risk, then remove and clean the oil pan... but thats not going to happen.. I figure if i ran it for just 3 minutes that would minimize risk too. Then do it again on the next oil change.. see, that could be a safer way by dividing up the cleaning.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Don't waste your time.
Remove the oil filler cap and look inside the valve cover and that will give you an indication of engine cleanliness. If the oil has been changed regularly it will be clean. I know our '04 is spotless.

Chad05TL

Ya I change it Like every 3k or 3500 miles. I bought a bottle hoping it might help the cold rough idle syndrome haha

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

These cars have a rough cold idle and no matter what you do it won't change the situation, nature of the beast. Even when warm, run the idle up to @1200 and you'll see that it's not smooth.

Chad05TL

My car is pretty darn smooth after a minute or 2 of warming. And I had a friend that didn't use to have a rough idle until his 07 got some mileage on it.. like 50k.. And I said, feel that? And he never noticed it and was shocked and thought something was wrong.. But I told him it is normal. They all do it.. So, that was the end of it.. But truthfully, something is occurring. After these cars get "some" mileage, they begin to idle rough. But it takes several thousand miles for it to happen. So, IMO, something has gotton dirty or fouled or carboned up... Just needs to be cleaned or maintained. As I do not have a "check engine light" and I have never had a check engine light to this day on this TL

dcmodels

Seriously? The reason to clean the pan, is to remove any residual (left-over) cleaner in the bottom of the pan - and doing it twice will actually leave more inside the pan. The best way to clean the INSIDE of the engine, is to use a good synthetic, and change it at a short interval (if there is already gunk inside the engine). 100K on a good synthetic engine oil, at normal intervals, should leave the engine looking just like it left the factory.

Probably, but its most likely not inside the engine - if it is, use a synthetic oil. Otherwise, its in the intake tract. WHich is why 3M makes an intake cleaner system. Look online for use instructions.

You can also remove and clean the throttle body, although on my 09 RDX, the FSM says you must then use the Honda DTC tool to reset the system. Don't know about the TL.

If the TL has an EGR that is another system - and there is also the PCV system - again, part of the intake system. And finally, there are the fuel injectors - which the 3M cleaner also cleans.

Chad05TL

Yes doing a little on this oil change then doing the other half on the next oil change would be less detrimental than doing it all at once IF a person wants to minimize risk of loosening too much grudge at once.

But I agree that odds are something on the intake could be carboned out.. like an idle air control valve if one of those even exists on this car. I never work on the engine.. except for a battery and a starter.. so I don't know about the intake until I read about it. Like I do everything..

Vlad_Type_S

iTrader: (3)

"I haven't had a problem with it" does not make it a good idea. Use a good synthetic and change it at shorter intervals if you want to "clean" it out.

/thread

erdoc48

I'm also not a fan of 'engine cleaners'. A good quality oil changed regularly (synthetic or not) should ensure no sludge in the engine, making such a cleaner unnecessary. If there was sludge in an engine, I'd be concerned about one of these products loosening a piece of the sludge and clogging an oil passage, leading to internal damage. Even the 'crappiest' oil these days is still better than the best from 10 years ago, so why put something in there that isn't needed.

I recall my GM's old Dodge (it was a 1965 Coronet 440)- when my brother and I were a lot younger in the 1980's, we pulled the valve cover- there were layers of sludge (actually like leaves of sludge) on the inside of the valve covers. Back then, the oils had a decent sulfur component and I believe that's what led to sludging. It can still occur, but is much less likely with regular oil changes.

eastcoastguy

I have heard people putting some transmission fluid in with the oil to help "clean" an engine because of the high detergent amount in transmission fluid. I think these are all things done to cars in the past, fluids nowadays are more advanced. Just using a good synthetic, changed regularly will be the best.

I would think running fuel system cleaner, intake cleaner, etc, would help more with rough idle then engine cleaners??!!??

TacoBello

That product you bought is nothing more than a marketing gimmick and a potential engine's worst nightmare. If they're telling you to take off the oil pan and clean it, you already know it's caustic garbage.

There's only two ways to keep then inside of your engine clean:
1. As already mentioned, regular oil changes.
2. Driving your car. Believe it or not, getting the rpm up on the engine does actually clean it. Beware though-

If you're engine has normally been babied, it probably has carbon build up on the inside. If you start revving the hell out of it, it's possible for bits of carbon deposits to break off. They may pass right through without issue. They may cause a valve to stay open, burning it out, however, I believe the odds of this are slim.

When my honda trained mechanic buddy did my valve adjustment and t-belt, after taking the top engine cover off (the one that says 3.2 VTEC), he pointed out these small holes inside the intake manifold and said "nice. They're clean."

Asking him to clarify, he says engines that are operated at low rpm end up having those holes caked up with carbon deposits and he then spends his time cleaning them out. I'll be honest- I have no idea what those holes even are for (he told me but I forgot)- maybe they're part of your rough idle issue? To be honest, my engine runs smooth as butter. I'm anal about any odd sound, vibration, you name it. My engine just purrs.

Anyway, don't use that crap you bought. I can't imagine there's anything inside the engine that would cause a rough idle at cold temps. Seems very bogus.

nist7

From my reading of the threads as well as the classic Road Rage posts (where did that guy go anyway?) it seems that the Techron and Redline fuel system cleaners are worth the money and actually does a good job.

In addition to using full 100% gasoline fuel as well (I'm lucky that a few BP stations near me has 100% gas. Just bought my car from a retired teacher so it probably has had 10% ethanol all its life, gonna start using 100% gas as soon as I need the next fill up).

Hmmm, so are you saying that babying the motor can actually be bad in the long term? I just bought my TL from an old retired teacher so it's likely the engine has been babied (although she says she gotten many speeding tickets so maybe not? hehe )

So then should we just go WOT every month or so to clean out the carbon or what about running Seafoam through the motor like this: How to use SeaFoam to clean your Engine - The RIGHT way! ?

sopmodm14

never heard of gunk, but i've used gumout, stp, lucas w/o any problems

sometimes additives are snake-oil

the one product that seems like an all-in-one (can put in fuel and motor oil or something) is marvel mystery oil

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

If you look at the MSDS of Marvel Mystery oil, it is basically mineral spirits with napthenic hydro-carbons and chlorinated hydro-carbons.

Just stick with regular oil changes. Many years ago a some would use a non-detergent oil, probably because it was less expensive and ended up with major buildup. Even decades ago, if the engine oil was changed frequently there would be no buildup.

tihomirbg

iTrader: (1)

I do oil change every 6months with full synthetic oil and good oil filters like Mobil 1 extended performance. Every other oil change I use SeaFoam 8oz in the crankcase- cold engine I pour the SeaFoam- then I go to the store to by the oil and the filter and I park the car in the garage and drain the old oil. Some disagree with SeaFoam in the crankcase
The other 8oz of seafoam I pour it in 1/4 gas left in the tank to clean the fuel injectors and lines even though I use Mobil premium gas only

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

As you can tell, I'm not much on additives, but must say that when I did engines years ago, I always used STP and oil mix on the bottom end as it would remain on the bearings and not run off.
Now were talking many years ago, I was also in the pits and watched Nascar teams dump cans of STP in the crankcase before the race.
My dad came over to the garage with a new Buick, 11 miles, I added a can of STP and the engine rpm's increase was to the point that I had to readjust the idle speed, couldn't believe the difference in idle speed.
Just drifted away from using the STP and haven't used it in many, many years.

I hate cars

The TL is easy on oil and has no known problems such as bad PCV design or hot spots. There is no need to ever run anything in the crank case besides oil. The car is fuel injected with feedback control so there's no more rich cold starts and fuel dilution. Fuel delivery is extremely precise from within the first few seconds of startup. With this comes very, very little carbon in the combustion chambers (my Pistons at 113,000 were mostly shiny alminum. Under the valvecovers, it looked like brand new engine with some clean oil poured on it, not even discoloration of any metal.

The valve bowl area and the valves looked like the engine had never been started. The intake plenum and runners had a tan discoloration but nothing that could even remotely affect performance.

So the question is what do you think you're accomplishing by using a solvent in the crank case that lowers film strength and the HTHSv of the oil with nothing to clean up?

About the intake tract, why would anyone think some discoloration will cause a performance loss? You would need carbon caked thick on the runners to give a measurable performance decrease. It will never happen in the TLs lifetime. A dirty throttlebody will only affect idle stability and even then it has to be much more severe than most will experience in 200,000 miles.

The fuel system should never need a cleaner if premium has always been used from a reputable gas station. Even without premium it's unlikely it will need to be cleaned.

If you truly need a crankcase cleaner, AutoRx is the only one I would use. It's a mix of esters and actually improves lubrication instead of hurting it. It stays in for an entire interval and gently and slowly cleans the crank case. Any modern car that's been maintained halfway decent should never need a cleaner with just a handful of exceptions such as some of the DI engines. It's unfortunste so many of the practices used on old carbureted cars has carried over to port and direct injected cars when they no longer apply with better metering, better fuel, and better oil.



Driving the car easy does not hurt a thing. It's possible driving it hard can clean off some of the combustion chamber deposits but these are usually light fluffy deposits that have no chance of hurting anything. Over the lifetime of the car, driving it nice is going to produce less wear and tear on every system. Plus, the engine is going to turn fewer total revolutions.

Chad05TL

Well, last Saturday I did the oil change and just added 1/2 the bottle, and only let it idle for 3 minutes.. Instead of adding the whole bottle and letting it idle 5 minutes. So, IF there was any built up sludge over the past 73k miles, then it would not have loosened it all at once and caused any problems. Anyway, the results were not much if anything using that method. But I did get good results on my 97 Camaro in about 2005 when I use 1 whole quart in engine. It made it run smoother. I was hoping for a cold start rough idle fix in the TL. But nothing happened. I just started it today while sitting in the garage all day and it still has a little rough idle. But after 2 minutes the rough idle is nearly gone.. and 3 minutes it has totally smoothed out. These TL's only start having a rough idle issue after 35k miles from what I understand. So, something is getting dirty. I am still not sure what it is. Probably intake or idle control valve. Those things get carboned up too.. BUt right now, its not really worth taking my intake apart to address the issue. I just bought 1 bottle of this stuff because it was cheap and easy and I was already in the process of changing the oil.. So, I tried. I will do the other half next time and see if there is any difference. Oh, I also did not see how long the rough idle still exists in minutes since I did the flush. I only just started it just now to see if it still existed... and it did. So, if it took any time off the rough idle duration, (like 2 minutes or less) I do not know because I didn't idle that long. So, I really cant tell if it even helped "a little". Maybe next time I will add the other half of the bottle for 5 minutes. Its all just for trial and for fun.. If it works good. If not, doesn't matter that much. It was only $2. haha Like paperboy .. haha

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

I thought we did not have idle control valves since the car was DBW.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

If you go back to when these 3G cars were new, you'll find numerous complaints about rough cold idle. Then go to the 4G section and you'll find the same, so nothing gets dirty or corroded, just the nature of the engine. Even when warm, if you take the idle up to 1200+ it certainly isn't smooth.

Back in May 2005 they even issued a TSB to install a damper onto the bottom of the front subframe near the rear engine mount to try to lessen the 1500 rpm vibration complaint.

Chad05TL

Probably true, but gets a "choke" from somewhere by some means. I have to open my book to see the method acura uses.

Chad05TL

I knew they have a rough idle for a long time and I have seen the complaints. But when these engines have few miles on them, they don't idle rough. So that is what you have to ask.. "why" and. "What changed during its life cycle that caused the rough idle to begin"

I hate cars

Mine had a rough cold idle when I bought it brand new with 8 miles on it. Hasn't changed over the years.

I hate cars

No idle air control valve. No choke lol. It's fuel injected. The method Acura uses to contol idle is the throttle body and ignition timing. The method Acura uses for "choke" lol, is to richen the AFR when cold electronically.

Chad05TL

Of course yours had it since birth. I would not have bought it that way.

Chad05TL

Well, acura may have figured out a way to eliminate the iac valve but fuel injection was the reason why they needed the iac valve in the first place.

Chad05TL

My next question would be" is there anyone who DOESNT" have a rough idle? If they don't, then again, you have to ask why do they not have a rough idle but I do? Then find the difference and solve the problem. Possibly egr system? I think egr works mainly at cold start.

Jackass

You sure your rough idle is new? What if the symptom is not the rough idle, but that you can feel it? So the part that is "dirty" or worn is the engine mounts? Just a thought....

Chad05TL

Mounts have been replaced. At least the ones that normally have an issue or come apart most commonly. I replaced I think three of them Like 2 years ago. The mounts were not at fault. The Honda mechanic works on nearly only Honda's. And he said there was 1 that almost never fails. Whichever that one is, we didn't replace that one. So, it's been done basically. And this is not a new problem. It has been going on for several thousand miles. I have a friend who has an 07 TL. About 3 yrs ago he had about 35k miles on his car and I got in the passenger seat and he started it, and I said what's that shaking? And see I already knew it was normal for this problem to occur.. and he was in shock and said I don't.know.. he didn't ever notice it before. And I said it's common, as I tried to ease his conscious. But he honestly never felt it before. So his cold start rough idle just developed over time Like mine did.

Chad05TL

So" jackass" are u saying your TL does not have a rough idle?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

I thinbk you might want to believe Matt!

I’ll say it again. They all have it and the cars that the owners say their cars
don't, probably aren’t much of a car person, no offensive meant, just like your buddy that never realized the condition.
Take a look at the ’04 threads and the first 4G threads and you’ll see that they all have the same tendency when new.

Normally the EGR valve operates when combustion temps high and normally at cruising and mid throttle conditions, not at idle, warmup or full throttle.

Not really sure as to what you’re trying to say, but must ask, what controls the IAC, the ECU, the same unit that controls the warmup system in the TL.

I hate cars

EGR does not function at idle so unless it's stuck on that's not your problem. It's usually not active when cold either.

Okaaaay??? Carbureted cars had dashpots and stepper motors, cams, and early computer control which included a crude form of IAC valves. I agree, the modern version of the IAC valve was created for fuel injection not because it had to be created (fuel injection could use any of the other things mentioned above to control idle) but because they could with the new computer controls.

It wasn't Acura that figured out a way to eliminnate the IAC. By going to DBW, there just wasn't a need for the IAC anymore.

What you need to address is what qualifies as a rough idle. No one in this thread knows how rough yours is but you. As it's been said, people were complaining of a rough idle when the cars were brand new. My GF's '05 TL had a rough idle back in '05. My TL idled the same as hers when it was new.

The autos usually have a rougher idle than the manuals due to having a tiny bit of additional load on them at idle in gear. That's probably why the autos got the weight attached the to bumper and the manuals didn't. When I removed mine, the only time I felt a difference was in gear with the AC on.

I could walk you through testing the mounts but I have a feeling you wouldn't listen.

Chad05TL

I think i was the one that clued you in on the vacuum line on a few of the motor mounts.. but I really dont care how they work.

And i'm done with this thread.. goodbye..

csmeance

Some misinformation and missing info in this thread. The TSB was for a damper to change the harmonic frequency that produced a Droning sound at 5th gear under 1500 RPM's which helped on 2004-2005 models. This droning naturally exists from the restrictive factory J-pipe and I've found that the installation of the freer flowing J-pipes gets rid of the drone (provided you don't have an aftermarket exhaust.)

Most engine cleaners are harsh chemicals (detergents) that visually clean everything up but really don't make a difference. Then there are cleaners that clean via PEA's. Chevron Techron and Redline SI-1 are the only ones that I'm aware of that use PEA to clean. Use these in the gas every oil change and your car will be happy. I had to use SI-1 every 3-5K in my 760 otherwise the fuel level sensor would get gunky (due to ethanol) and wouldn't read at all prompting a dealer trip & warranty spending 1K (5 times).

I've been using seafoam in my TL and MDX every 30K miles minimum and both have a smooth idle when warm. When both are cold there is a slightly rough idle but it's not enough to make the RPM needle jump up or down.

Honda J-Series engines idle rough when cold because they are intentionally misfiring on all the cylinders to get the 2 Pre-Cats warmed up faster. Folks who have put in the Pre-Cat Deletes get a small fuel drip during cold start ups. The reason for this programming is that Honda wants to be environmentally friendly. Cat's that warm up faster can break apart the toxic stuff faster leading to reduced emissions, IE ULEV2 rating. (check the sticker on your car).

Make sure your idle is at 750RPM. If it is not, disconnect the battery for 20-30 minutes and then reconnect. IN Accessory mode turn off ALL accessories such as heated seats, radio, lights, a/c, etc. Then turn the car off, then back on fully. Let the car idle for about 10 minutes (or until the cooling fan turns on and off twice). This is the Idle Relearn procedure and should help out.

I would also advise you check your engine mounts, esp the rear one as that tends to transmit quite a bit of the vibration when it fails.

Also with 73K on your TL and your specific needs, you can also look into changing the spark plugs and check the condition on the factory ones. Mine looked pretty good at 99K on my TL however yours might not be so well. Also did you replace the engine air filter at 30K and 60K miles?

nist7

Good to see another vote of confidence for the Chevron Techron and the Red Line cleaners. When my current tank of gas is ready for its first fill under my watch, I'll be dumping in one of those (depends on if I can find Red Line locally) along with a nice tank of 100% 91 octane from a local BP station.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Been over this before, there is no intentional misfire when engine is cold.
The precats are placed close to the engine to warm up quickly and talk about doing damage to a cats, send unburned fuel into the cat and it will be history in short order, then there is the emission concern with raw fuel dumping into the exhaust and fouled plugs. All this has been mentioned before with the same reply, let's be realistic and understand that under no circumstances will a manufacturer have a vehicle that will intentionally misfire, ever, especially having raw fuel dripping out of the exhaust. Once again, I've stated this before, it was condensation, but after a heavy night of drinking one probably thought it might be fuel especially with the alcohol on their breath.

The OEM J pipe is the same for the ’04-’07 TL so the there must have been another reason to have the TSB for the 2004 models. For whatever reason, most stated the damper didn’t change the problem, a few did.