Acadien

We did perform a leakdown test on cyl. #4,5 &6 (front head) and have buble coming from the radiator cap when we did the leak down on the #5 so it's a bad head gasket, For the rear head i will bring my car to a shop specialize to do that kind of job and they will check there. The tech today tell me one spark plug have oil on it so also the valve cover gasket is bad!! Wow, right now i'm not sure if i will do the head gasket if the rest of the car is ok... If you see the car you can't imagine the car was not maintaint properly, the body is in perfect shape the interior and under the hood also :S

nfnsquared

Well, at least you now know what the issue is.

And oil on the spark plug could just mean the plug was loose and/or the spark plug seal was bad. My guess is a loose plug. I doubt it's due to a bad VC gasket.

jda123

I will assume that he meant the top part of the plug.

You have to take all of that off to take the head off, so don't let 'em charge you too much more than parts on the valve cover gasket.

jda123

Does that "gasket - replace" go to a runner, or are those parts part of the head? I guess that if those are just runners, then there are other gaskets elsewhere. I am just curious - I have never had the heads off of my Acuras. I cannot find a head picture on the net, but the gasket kit appears that it comes with another gasket for the lower part of what looks like an intake manifold.

I hate cars

I'm not real clear what you meant by not sure if you will do the head gasket. You have to, besides other reasons, it can fire cut the head and block and then you're basically looking at a new engine. At least you know the problem.

Oil on the top of the plug is valvecover, on the electrodes could be heagaskets to bad rings.

nfnsquared

Just two gaskets if you remove the IM: plate cover gasket and IM gasket. Head gaskets are separate. Not sure if that answers your question...

jda123

So the intake ports with the studs on either end are physically part of the heads? That is what I am wondering.

Acadien

I mean, I hope this is just the head gasket, i don't would like to do that and another problem happen after! Like my previous car, my engine was bad i did replace it ($5000) 1 month after it broke again and i found the ecu was the problem, the dealer was not able to see that! I love my Tl-s but i need a car without problem like that, that's why i did sell my speed3 turbo!

Acadien

Somebody is able to find a picture of what both heads look like. Like the picture of the Im and all gasket and bolt?? I know some of you have more ressource than me! Thank you for your help guys!

nfnsquared

Oh gotcha. Good question. Looks like it all comes off in one piece?? (Never had the heads off). SM procedure is not clear, but looks like both heads have to come off at the same time.... Here's the best scan I can find from the SM:

I hate cars

You're right. You have the upper plenum and the lower runners. The "replace" gasket goes between the upper and lower. You have one more gasket between each head and lower runners that are not pictured. But what you are seeing is the lower intake manifold, not the intake ports in the heads.

I hate cars

Nope. Its the lower intake manifold.

jda123

Thanks guys. I thought that I needed to know for some reason so that we can suggestion checking both gaskets in the future.

Acadien - you don't know yet if it is a gasket or cracked head. A good mechanic will know when they take it apart. No chance that the ecu is causing combustion chamber gases to get into the radiator... so don't sweat that. This is why you need a good "tech" or mechanic - I don't even know how good they have to be since I am just a weekend mechanic on my own cars (and my friends) and I can tell the difference... but my mistrust of most dealer "tech" is pretty high.

It is probalby the gasket, but it could be the heads if the engine ever got hot. Do you remember the readings on the "good" cylinders?

nfnsquared

Ah, found them. Those are the injector bases and they connect the IM to each head. Each is attached (bolted with gasket) to a head and they will come off with the head. It kind of looks like one piece in the SM diagram, but they are two separate pieces:



OP, here's the best pic I have of the front head with VC removed (IM gasket is still in place over the injector bases):

Acadien

Hi, just a quick question. On the labor guide book it's said 13.5 hrs in labor to do both headgasket, It's more time than what i think! Do you think It's gonna need that much?
My car is scheduled next tuesday to do the head gasket job... Hope it will resolve the problem!

I hate cars

Book time can always be beat, usually by a significant margin. A tech should be able to do the job in one full 8 hour working day. Regardless of how long it takes, you will be charged full book time. That doesn't take into account surfacing the heads which should be done.

Which reminds me, make sure they check them for flatness. If they're warped and they don't surface them while they're off, you will just blow the new gaskets over time. If they surface them, find out how much they take off. I've seen some shops take a ton of metal off of warped heads trying to make them flat again when they should have been replaced. With the 11:1 compression ratio, there's not a whole lot of room for the extra compression.

Oil should be changed also. Speaking of oil, have you checked the crank case to make sure no coolant got in there? If there's any coolant in the oil, you need to drain it out, fill with fresh oil, start it for a minute and then shut it down until the work is done. Coolant can eat the lead in the rod and main bearings while the engine is off.

Don't be surprised if you get oxygen sensor codes in the future. Coolant in the exhaust and 02s don't go together.

As soon as the heads come off, it will be obvious the gaskets are blown.

jda123

Might as well get a new timing belt (and stuff) while they are in there.

nfnsquared

If that time includes surfacing the heads, then that doesn't surprise me...

I hate cars

I should add I mentioned head surfacing "if" included in the time because usually it's just a flat rate and not included in the book time.

Acadien

I don't think it's with head surfacing. Do we need to surfacing the head if the tech said it's not warped??

I hate cars

The problem is the tech does not have the tools to determine if its warped. You can lay a straight edge on it to see if there's bad warping but just a few thousandths of an inch is enough to blow a head gasket. Its not a bad idea to get it surfaced and have them just barely touch the surface to give it a nice finish for the gasket to hold on to. Make sure the deck is checked for flatness. Not likely to be warped but they might as well check it.

nfnsquared

Did he actually say that already? If it's not warped, what caused the gasket/s to blow?

The SM calls for resurfacing if warpage is between 0.05 - 0.2mm.

I'd have it done regardless to ensure proper finish on the heads. If it's not included in the 13.5 hours, then you're only looking at an additional $75-$150 for both heads. Aluminum heads have a tighter spec for finish smoothness. Many shops recommend refinishing of aluminum heads anytime they are removed.

Make sure they (or whoever they send the heads to) use a profilometer to measure the finish.

P.S. Here's a better diagram of the heads with the attached injector bases:

Acadien

Ok i will do surfacing for sure than. Thanks for your help guys!!

Acadien

Hey, Update for my car, this is really hard to find a head gasket kit for a Tl!! All Auto parts company around here not be able to find it in Canada! We did find a company in the u.s.a. did have there... From the dealer the gasket kit is around $1100 and from the u.s auto parts is $300!! I'm so happy we did find one! Only concern is i hope the gasket kit will be good quality, I know the one from the dealer is the best but $800 more is too much.

nfnsquared

Did you try one of the Azine vendors?

Or acurapartswarehouse.com?

http://www.acurapartswarehouse.com/P...gPicture=False

Should run you about $275 US, plus shipping for an OEM gasket set (front and rear).

jda123

Felpro has a kit for $225 with the valve cover, stems seals, etc.

Just the head gasket is about $40 as part number 26265P.

I hate cars

Now that's more like it.

Acadien

Do you know if Felpro is available in most autopart store? I did here this brand before. Thanks for the info!

Ped4o

First, if the temp stays cool and the gauge doesnt reach like it normally does, in the middle. Then replace the thermostat censor, seriously its that simple. Second, I had the same problem in my car, the engine was jumping around like crazy, the rpm was so low that 500 would idle then it would shut off. So I go and check something out, my catalytic converters where old now so it needed replacement, the reason it was doing that with my engine, was because air goes in, but if you have bank 2 and underbody cat clogged, there is no clearance for whatever needs to go out, and when the inside of the catalytic converters breaks up, its a bunch of crazy dust. check all 3 of them and replace the o2 sensors if you replaced the catalytic conv. and inspect the other 2 and work from there. So after doing that, i was happy. No more engine shacking. Went home happy. Next morning I drive it and about 15-20 min in a red light starts doing the same thing and shuts off. I turned it back on and there it was again, the shacking with the low rpms but this time at 1000. went back to my buddies shop. I got the scanner and had misfire in 1,3,5. I pulled out the spark plugs they were all good, except for one. the spark plug from cylinder 1 had oil in it. I got kinda worried. Cleaned it, put all 6 new in, replaced the valve gasket cover and turn it on, it was good for like 20 min when this time smoke came out the exhaust. OMG i was freaking out. i then check out the coils, but i knew that was bad because, smoke out of the exhaust it was the oil being burned, so i kinda disconnected each coil, and 5 were good but cylin. 1 stayed the same, didn't shake a little like its supposed to. i checked my valves maybe they were tight, typically they do and we have to manually adjust them. I turned the car back on even more smoke. i wa flipping out. i was thinking a new engine. but nooo. cus i got another bud that works at the acura dealership, he was telling me that all i needed was to spend 200 dollars more. it was the Piston Ring 150 and the valve stem seals 28. after replacing that it has runned like new. it was the stem seals were old and letting oil in, after that being done it didnt shake no flashing engine light .