dealer says my engine's toast
03-30-2010, 08:34 PM
#1
Cruisin'
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dealer says my engine's toast
I first got my TL this past August at a used car shop w/ mileage in the upper 40s
First night I drove it back, after I turned the car off the engine fan went on. It went on pretty much every time after a drive and I thought it was weird but didn't think much of it when it went away a couple days later.
the car has had a rough idle and sometimes the CEL would flash at ignition. (CEL's were indicating misfires) Over the past couple months I have done repairs such as new spark plugs, transmission flush, fuel injector "cleaning", new oil gaskets, and most recently a new radiator. After the fuel injector cleaning, spark plugs, and oil gaskets the CEL came less frequently but it still flashed occasionally.
Radiator and thermostat was replaced about a month ago (had it diagnosed from Acura, replaced at independent shop which I think may be a mistake now), and a couple days ago the car was blowing white smoke, still had a rough idle, etc. So I brought it back to get diagnosed and they called me to say that my engine was gone, quoted me at above 9k and that I may possibly need a new catalyctic converter (1.5-2k? opinion on this?)
I told them that I would have it towed away in the next few days, what should I do?
Does anyone know any good acura engine makers, or junkyard in the tri-state area.. or any other suggestions would help too.
also, anyone know anything about the lemon law?
thanks
First night I drove it back, after I turned the car off the engine fan went on. It went on pretty much every time after a drive and I thought it was weird but didn't think much of it when it went away a couple days later.
the car has had a rough idle and sometimes the CEL would flash at ignition. (CEL's were indicating misfires) Over the past couple months I have done repairs such as new spark plugs, transmission flush, fuel injector "cleaning", new oil gaskets, and most recently a new radiator. After the fuel injector cleaning, spark plugs, and oil gaskets the CEL came less frequently but it still flashed occasionally.
Radiator and thermostat was replaced about a month ago (had it diagnosed from Acura, replaced at independent shop which I think may be a mistake now), and a couple days ago the car was blowing white smoke, still had a rough idle, etc. So I brought it back to get diagnosed and they called me to say that my engine was gone, quoted me at above 9k and that I may possibly need a new catalyctic converter (1.5-2k? opinion on this?)
I told them that I would have it towed away in the next few days, what should I do?
Does anyone know any good acura engine makers, or junkyard in the tri-state area.. or any other suggestions would help too.
also, anyone know anything about the lemon law?
thanks
03-30-2010, 08:48 PM
#3
Safety Car
i'm not sure if the lemon law applies to used cars...? however, that doesn't seem okay 
sorry to hear about your misfortune. unfortunately, i can't imagine why they would total your motor. white smoke came from...the exhaust-lets or the engine bay? hm....sorry I can't be of much use. as for the cats, you have three. the likelihood of all three of them going out at the same time is unlikely. they replace the traditional "headers" on our cars. you have one in the front and one off the exhaust manifold in the rear, and then one right after the j-pipe down below the car. it goes like this: 2 cats off the block, immediately followed by a j-pipe that connecs the two cats off the block into ONE straight pipe, then immediately following goes to the third cat and then out. how many miles by the way? The likelihood of one of your cats going out is possible...but more likely to be an O2 sensor; they tend to go out early on our cars 
. Um...but a CEL would have come on. Note, we have TONS of sensors - if there's something wrong, the code WILL show. Is there a way for you to get the codes read yourself and then list them here in this thread? We have a copy of the codes lying around somewhere...
Keep us posted and good luck! By the way, the dealership that your cars currently at - did you buy it from there? Argue goodwill. It's a program that allows the dealership to cover parts and labor on cars for loyal customers. Your situation doesn't sound fair at all - argue something along those lines. You seem calm though, so props! Good luck!!!
sorry to hear about your misfortune. unfortunately, i can't imagine why they would total your motor. white smoke came from...the exhaust-lets or the engine bay? hm....sorry I can't be of much use. as for the cats, you have three. the likelihood of all three of them going out at the same time is unlikely. they replace the traditional "headers" on our cars. you have one in the front and one off the exhaust manifold in the rear, and then one right after the j-pipe down below the car. it goes like this: 2 cats off the block, immediately followed by a j-pipe that connecs the two cats off the block into ONE straight pipe, then immediately following goes to the third cat and then out. how many miles by the way? The likelihood of one of your cats going out is possible...but more likely to be an O2 sensor; they tend to go out early on our cars . Um...but a CEL would have come on. Note, we have TONS of sensors - if there's something wrong, the code WILL show. Is there a way for you to get the codes read yourself and then list them here in this thread? We have a copy of the codes lying around somewhere...Keep us posted and good luck! By the way, the dealership that your cars currently at - did you buy it from there? Argue goodwill. It's a program that allows the dealership to cover parts and labor on cars for loyal customers. Your situation doesn't sound fair at all - argue something along those lines. You seem calm though, so props! Good luck!!!
03-30-2010, 09:07 PM
#4
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Holy shit man that sucks. I'm really sorry to hear 
03-30-2010, 09:21 PM
#5
Cruisin'
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no, so I bought the car in new jersey but I go to school in PA, and took it to a Acura dealership not too far from Philadelphia.
It was showing symptoms of a blown headgasket the past day or two (smoke from exhaust, rough idle as before, CEL flashing for a couple seconds, and what was most different was a different smell)
I'm thinking about just getting it towed back to my apartment until I can figure out what I want to do. I'm trying to figure out if it's worth going to a independent shop since the one I went to fixed my radiator but I'm questioning how no-one saw this coming.
It was showing symptoms of a blown headgasket the past day or two (smoke from exhaust, rough idle as before, CEL flashing for a couple seconds, and what was most different was a different smell)
I'm thinking about just getting it towed back to my apartment until I can figure out what I want to do. I'm trying to figure out if it's worth going to a independent shop since the one I went to fixed my radiator but I'm questioning how no-one saw this coming.
03-31-2010, 02:29 PM
#7
Advanced
Warranty
Basic warranty (months/miles)
48/50,000 Powertrain warranty (months/miles) 48/50,000 Corrosion perforation warranty (months/miles) 60/ unlimited Roadside assistance warranty (months/miles) 48/50,000 Accessories warranty (months/miles) 48/50,000
Basic warranty (months/miles)
48/50,000 Powertrain warranty (months/miles) 48/50,000 Corrosion perforation warranty (months/miles) 60/ unlimited Roadside assistance warranty (months/miles) 48/50,000 Accessories warranty (months/miles) 48/50,000
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03-31-2010, 02:31 PM
#8
Advanced
i didnt see the year of the car but this is the warranty for the 2004 acura TL. the lemon law does exist for used cars too.
check it-> http://www.carlemon.com/lemon/NY_LemonGuide.html
check it-> http://www.carlemon.com/lemon/NY_LemonGuide.html
03-31-2010, 03:43 PM
#11
Advanced
part out and build your money up n buy another car. or sell it. i dont think its worth it to keep that car with a bad engine. im sure with this car there are going to be problems popping up all the time even after you get a new engine. wtf did the previous owner do to it? did you check the carfax?
03-31-2010, 05:46 PM
#12
Team Owner
I'm at work and only have a second so I can't be detailed yet but absolutely don't look for new engines yet. Chances are it's just a blown headgaskets. The new wave of "techs" are no better than the average person at diagnosis.
03-31-2010, 07:17 PM
#14
Team Owner
Now that I'm home, I can elaborate.
Ask them what tests they performed and how they determined it needs a new engine. If they say it's low on compression ask them how they know replacing the headgasket won't fix the problem.
The techs don't make an attempt to diagnose. If it's harder than a simple bolt-on they diagnose it as a bad engine. They just don't have the skill these days to do any real diagnosis.
Ask them what tests they performed and how they determined it needs a new engine. If they say it's low on compression ask them how they know replacing the headgasket won't fix the problem.
The techs don't make an attempt to diagnose. If it's harder than a simple bolt-on they diagnose it as a bad engine. They just don't have the skill these days to do any real diagnosis.
03-31-2010, 07:19 PM
#15
That's why I asked how old it is. The '07's have a 6 year/70,000 mile powertrain warranty.
03-31-2010, 07:24 PM
#16
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Comprehensive Insurance Claim???
03-31-2010, 08:57 PM
#17
Now that I'm home, I can elaborate.
Ask them what tests they performed and how they determined it needs a new engine. If they say it's low on compression ask them how they know replacing the headgasket won't fix the problem.
The techs don't make an attempt to diagnose. If it's harder than a simple bolt-on they diagnose it as a bad engine. They just don't have the skill these days to do any real diagnosis.
Ask them what tests they performed and how they determined it needs a new engine. If they say it's low on compression ask them how they know replacing the headgasket won't fix the problem.
The techs don't make an attempt to diagnose. If it's harder than a simple bolt-on they diagnose it as a bad engine. They just don't have the skill these days to do any real diagnosis.
04-08-2010, 12:52 PM
#18
Cruisin'
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i decided to take everyone's advice and will be getting my car towed back to my hometown by AAA (thank god AAA + has free towing up to 100 miles)
-basically i think i have a blown headgasket + bad catalyctic converter + bad oxygen sensor (prob) + more importantly, a bad cylinder head.
symptoms, CEL flashes + rough idle at startup, i smell coolant burning, white smoke from exhuast.
also, I'm always low on coolant. like theres no coolant in my reservoir tank!
anyways, my question now is, say a local mechanic confirms that i need a new cylinder head. I know that on acuraoemparts.com, the FR head is selling for $908 compared to the MSRP of $1211.
is it out of the question to ask the mechanic to just inspect my car, see what parts i need, and put my car off to the side until I order the parts myself?
also, how many hours of labor est is new cylinderhead installment, and what other "jobs" are usually done w this? any resurfacing, etc?
cliffnotes: how can i save money as a poor college student who prob needs a new cylinder head.
-basically i think i have a blown headgasket + bad catalyctic converter + bad oxygen sensor (prob) + more importantly, a bad cylinder head.
symptoms, CEL flashes + rough idle at startup, i smell coolant burning, white smoke from exhuast.
also, I'm always low on coolant. like theres no coolant in my reservoir tank!
anyways, my question now is, say a local mechanic confirms that i need a new cylinder head. I know that on acuraoemparts.com, the FR head is selling for $908 compared to the MSRP of $1211.
is it out of the question to ask the mechanic to just inspect my car, see what parts i need, and put my car off to the side until I order the parts myself?
also, how many hours of labor est is new cylinderhead installment, and what other "jobs" are usually done w this? any resurfacing, etc?
cliffnotes: how can i save money as a poor college student who prob needs a new cylinder head.
04-08-2010, 12:56 PM
#19
One on the right for me
Most mechanics will let you bring your own parts. They might bump the hourly rate up a tad but it isn't an unreasonable or unusual request.
04-08-2010, 01:14 PM
#20
Instructor
Did you check the oil to see if coolant leaked in there through the bad head gasket?
Maybe the techs checked the oil and saw the milkiness and are assuming the bearings are on their way out. Just throwing that out there.
Maybe the techs checked the oil and saw the milkiness and are assuming the bearings are on their way out. Just throwing that out there.
04-08-2010, 02:20 PM
#21
Team Owner
That's the usualy failure route. Headgaseket fails from detonatio or a warped head, burn oil and coolant which both kill 02 sensors and convertors. Misfires especially at idle are a classic symptom of this. If it had misfire codes when you bought it, it had the blown headgasket when you bought it.
The problem now is you're driven it a lot. With an aluminum head and block, driving for a long time can firecut the heads or block rendering them junk.
I would pull the heads off and go from there. If one of them are slightly warped you can have it surfaced for about $100 instead of buying a new head. Just hope the block and heads are usable.
There's also a good chance you've been driving around with coolant in the oil. Coolant is not good for the bearings neither is water since it obviously doesn't lube. In hindsight if you would've shut it down when you first noticed the problem, your chances of it being fixable would've been better. But I still think you should press the dealer you bought it from.
The problem now is you're driven it a lot. With an aluminum head and block, driving for a long time can firecut the heads or block rendering them junk.
I would pull the heads off and go from there. If one of them are slightly warped you can have it surfaced for about $100 instead of buying a new head. Just hope the block and heads are usable.
There's also a good chance you've been driving around with coolant in the oil. Coolant is not good for the bearings neither is water since it obviously doesn't lube. In hindsight if you would've shut it down when you first noticed the problem, your chances of it being fixable would've been better. But I still think you should press the dealer you bought it from.
04-08-2010, 03:58 PM
#22
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
damn.. I remember you asking for advice a while back regarding misfires. Tragic to see it has come to this. Definitely remove both heads and with luck you can get them machined and be able to replace the gaskets cleanly. If the cats are toast, core them out and bypass the o2 sensors otherwise that's an easy $750 - $1k in parts alone.
What you neglected to add was you bought the car patched from a previous wreck with both fenders, bumper, headlight, passenger door repaired. Was it also a flood vehicle? I remember suggesting you definitely NOT buy that car.. but live and learn. As IHC suggested, try to save as much coin as you can and get it running again. Independent shops are more willing to repair than big service shops who'd rather replace. I'll further add that if the carfax record is clean, sell it and move on before any other expenses pop up.
What you neglected to add was you bought the car patched from a previous wreck with both fenders, bumper, headlight, passenger door repaired. Was it also a flood vehicle? I remember suggesting you definitely NOT buy that car.. but live and learn. As IHC suggested, try to save as much coin as you can and get it running again. Independent shops are more willing to repair than big service shops who'd rather replace. I'll further add that if the carfax record is clean, sell it and move on before any other expenses pop up.
04-08-2010, 04:01 PM
#23
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Also check around, a lot of J's on the market. A local guy was selling a J32A3 for $500, I've seen quite a few out there.
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