dash fade
#81
Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Allentown, PA
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Originally Posted by mark 3M bra man
And I would purchase the TL again knowing about the problem. All cars have problems, and if that would be the only one: who cares, especially that it can be easily cured. It may be a temporary cure, but given that I can treat my dash everytime I wash my car, I will not ever see the milky stuff on it again.
In other words, I love the car and it would not stop me from buying it. I have seen bigger problems with brand new cars. And those were problems that could not be as easily cured (even on much more expensive cars).
My
In other words, I love the car and it would not stop me from buying it. I have seen bigger problems with brand new cars. And those were problems that could not be as easily cured (even on much more expensive cars).
My
#82
Racer
Originally Posted by mayflowerman
I'm looking forward to trying the Zanio product as a remedy.
the way i do it
i use a microfiber glove to apply a generous amount and spread it evenly
let it sit overnight
and wipe off in the morning with an thick 80% cotton towel (with minimal pressure)
i found that 100% ones leave more lint, while microfiber "cleans" too much
the result = even, matte OEM finish
if you don't wipe it, it'll be darker, but will also remain slightly sticky and attract dust
leave alone the nasty glare you'll get
also take it easy on the speaker meshes and the dotter rubber part of the dash
they don't need as much cream as the "leather" part
a tip not to mess up the a-pillar covers and the windshield: stick a large sheet of thick paper (like an old poster) between the dash and everything else, this way you won't have to stop short of the sides with the application
hope this helps
#84
Racer
Originally Posted by TBone2004
Anyone get the name of the magic stuff?
Some people say to use the NXT protectectant - but the bottle says "Shiny" does it really make it shiny?
Some people say to use the NXT protectectant - but the bottle says "Shiny" does it really make it shiny?
and when i tried wiping it off like i do with zaino to get the right matte fininsh, it turned my dash into a sick powdered ass
may be others don't wipe it or they have better luck
i don't like the gloss and for me NXT only made it worse
well ... nothing a few layers of zaino couldn't fix
#85
4th Gear
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I've used the Lexol leather conditioner they sell at the dealership. It works great. Dash looks new again. It does need to be reapplied every once in a while. I would also reccomend the Lexol on the seats. It is a thinner conditioner not so much a cream like other products and seems easier to apply.
Randy
Randy
#86
I tried the NXT and I thought it was great! It does leave a *little* shine, but I would describe it as a natural shine, not the really shiny coat that Armorall leaves. Make sure you buy the right NXT stuff, too. The bottles are all identical, and the Autozone by my house had the exterior cleaner in with interior cleaner, so I almost ended up buying the quick detailer! The stuff you want is the Meguiar's NXT Tech Protectant Interior Protectant. Since the NXT line is synthetic, you only need a little bit to do a large area. I sprayed some (2 or 3 squirts) on a microfiber cloth and that was enough to do almost the entire dash. Then I used another microfiber cloth to dry it off. I am really happy with the job that the NXT did!
#87
One on the right for me
Sorry I've been slacking in posting what I got from Honda. Its called Pro Honda Vinly/Leather Protectant. Dealer said this was the exact stuff they put on my dash (which looks brand new again). it was about 6 bucks for 11oz of it.
#89
Bobz
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Originally Posted by Spy
Is the dash fade only an ebony problem or does the camel/parchment interiors suffer as well?
#90
The dash is the same for all interiors. It is a dark grey / graphite color, not a deep black. I have treated my dash about once a month since new. About a month after delivery it developed a filmy ash look. I treated with 303 monthly and found Turtle Wax's Black Chrome works well. I think Turtle Wax now sells it formulated under another name, it is a black vinyl, rubber treatment. I have not treated my dash for over a month, and it looks better than new.
I think many people are caught between treating the dash to remove the haze, or afraid to use products on the dash. I think 303 works great, but I was not finding it curing evenly for my tastes. Afterwards, I tried the Black Chrome and I feel it looks better than it did upon delivery. I think Acura has too may plastic, rubber, vinyl mixes going on as they all have a slightly different color tone and texture. I noticed this when I had a loaner with Ebony interior...it seemed like 12 different shades of Ebony were going on....and that car had 42 miles on it.
But I found something that works for me, and applying monthly is routine maintenance for me. I am satified with the results.
I think many people are caught between treating the dash to remove the haze, or afraid to use products on the dash. I think 303 works great, but I was not finding it curing evenly for my tastes. Afterwards, I tried the Black Chrome and I feel it looks better than it did upon delivery. I think Acura has too may plastic, rubber, vinyl mixes going on as they all have a slightly different color tone and texture. I noticed this when I had a loaner with Ebony interior...it seemed like 12 different shades of Ebony were going on....and that car had 42 miles on it.
But I found something that works for me, and applying monthly is routine maintenance for me. I am satified with the results.
#91
8th Gear
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I had the dash replaced on my July 2004 TL by the dealer last February after I complained of a bulge in the dash and a noticable depression in the surface over the airbag. The replacement dash is straighter but the color more uneven than the original.
#92
The DVD-A Script Guy
Originally Posted by abirvalg
that's what i thought
i did want to use it cause it stinks like a roach spray
but i guess if it works it's worth a try
but only when my zaino fades
i did want to use it cause it stinks like a roach spray
but i guess if it works it's worth a try
but only when my zaino fades
#93
Racer
it probably is ...
since they smell the same and i've used both on my floor matts and engine covers with the same result ... good water repelling, low dust attraction
i think the only difference is the label
since they smell the same and i've used both on my floor matts and engine covers with the same result ... good water repelling, low dust attraction
i think the only difference is the label
#94
Drifting
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Just got back from getting an A service on my car. The third service in 18000 miles. The service advisor said that the dash fade is not a problem and the milky color is dust and finger oil. The "magic" fluid is the Honda cleaner/protectant. This was only after telling me on the phone there was no such problem as dash fade, and the reason you can see the air bag is because of the pressure of it against the dash. Oh well- I don't know how many people believe this BS, I don't!
#95
Racer
that's right! BS!
i don't know about you guys, but i dust my dash twice a week and NEVER touch it with bare hands
thus it's not dust and "finger oil"!!!
i don't know about you guys, but i dust my dash twice a week and NEVER touch it with bare hands
thus it's not dust and "finger oil"!!!
#96
3rd Gear
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Dash and steering wheel fading
My wife's 2004TL has around 27,000 miles on it, has the windows tinted at 30%, is garaged most of the time and is cleaned regularily with a damp cloth. No one would think of touching her dash so there are no fingerprints (I hang on to the roof strap when she drives ).
The dash looks horrible....splotchy, milkly, whatever. I have not contacted Nalley Acura of Marietta, GA so I will reserve judgement on the "BS" factor. I will, however, today give them a chance to address the problem. Oh, another thing, the steering wheel is also changing colors. I certainly don't want to put any slick petroleum based products on that!
Has anyone had satisfactory results when they approached the Acura service department on this problem....other than being told to buy their cleaning products?
Originally Posted by abirvalg
that's right! BS!
i don't know about you guys, but i dust my dash twice a week and NEVER touch it with bare hands
thus it's not dust and "finger oil"!!!
i don't know about you guys, but i dust my dash twice a week and NEVER touch it with bare hands
thus it's not dust and "finger oil"!!!
#97
My personal feeling is the dash must be treated, with something more than water alone. This milky film that covers the dash is likely a byproduct of this funky, rubbery material degassing. Most rubber / vinyl products exhibit some form of degassing, fade....especially when under a big glass magnifying glass. I think it is an accepted maintenance issue to this material, although I agree, I believe it should be more stable. But honestly, how many of you insist your tires are treated, mudflaps treated, spend 15 hours twice a month protecting the paint plus another 5 hours on the leather? Most dash materials wear well, but maybe thgis stuff needs more care.
Now I agree, and understand the paranoia on WHICH product to treat with. None of us want to degrade the dash by using a product that reacts with this material. I haven't tried Acura's offering as I found treating my dash has kept it better than it was when delivered. And I am on a once a month schedule at this point. I noticed the milky, blotchy haze forming with the 1st month from delivery. As each month passed, with each treatment (I have posted a few mentions of the products I have tried), the dash looked better, more evenly saturated, no scuffing and I am pleased with my results. It is not BLACK, but a graphite color.
Now I do believe Acura has a plethora of materials and color tones going on inside our TLs. Like the rubbery dash, the door handles are different material from the top of the door panels. They feel different, look different and react differently to protectorants. The black plastics on the dash vary in texture and color depth. Add to that the 2 tone of my Parch interior, and I feel it amplifies the matter (especially the way the 2 tone runs along the beloved glove box alignment ).
These various materials not only fade at different rates, they absorb and react to cleaning / protectant materials differently. The rubbery stuff drinks up protectant where the hard plastics do not, and may apprear darker / glossier / satin / etc, etc. High gloss protectants seem to better deepen and even the tones of these various materials, but most of us prefer not to use higher gloss products.
It was most apparent to me when I had a new loaner with the ebony interior. Although I loved the stealthy look of the ebony interior, it appeared to me to have 20 different shades of grey, graphite, charcoal, black, ebony, etc!
I think we need to keep sharing our trial and error with this apparently highly sensitive issue (it is what we look at the most in our TLs). Adding to the product mix, I was chatting with another member and mentioned another product which I have not tried, but might offer to a willing Beta Tester.
Black Magic makes various dash / interior cleaners. I see they have a protectant that specifies for black matte dashes in a 'semi-gloss' finish easy to dust. I believe I saw on AutoBarn in wipes. If anyone gives this a try, please post your results.
But whatever we use, I expect it will be an ongoing process, and likely to take a few treatments to reach the best reults.
Now I agree, and understand the paranoia on WHICH product to treat with. None of us want to degrade the dash by using a product that reacts with this material. I haven't tried Acura's offering as I found treating my dash has kept it better than it was when delivered. And I am on a once a month schedule at this point. I noticed the milky, blotchy haze forming with the 1st month from delivery. As each month passed, with each treatment (I have posted a few mentions of the products I have tried), the dash looked better, more evenly saturated, no scuffing and I am pleased with my results. It is not BLACK, but a graphite color.
Now I do believe Acura has a plethora of materials and color tones going on inside our TLs. Like the rubbery dash, the door handles are different material from the top of the door panels. They feel different, look different and react differently to protectorants. The black plastics on the dash vary in texture and color depth. Add to that the 2 tone of my Parch interior, and I feel it amplifies the matter (especially the way the 2 tone runs along the beloved glove box alignment ).
These various materials not only fade at different rates, they absorb and react to cleaning / protectant materials differently. The rubbery stuff drinks up protectant where the hard plastics do not, and may apprear darker / glossier / satin / etc, etc. High gloss protectants seem to better deepen and even the tones of these various materials, but most of us prefer not to use higher gloss products.
It was most apparent to me when I had a new loaner with the ebony interior. Although I loved the stealthy look of the ebony interior, it appeared to me to have 20 different shades of grey, graphite, charcoal, black, ebony, etc!
I think we need to keep sharing our trial and error with this apparently highly sensitive issue (it is what we look at the most in our TLs). Adding to the product mix, I was chatting with another member and mentioned another product which I have not tried, but might offer to a willing Beta Tester.
Black Magic makes various dash / interior cleaners. I see they have a protectant that specifies for black matte dashes in a 'semi-gloss' finish easy to dust. I believe I saw on AutoBarn in wipes. If anyone gives this a try, please post your results.
But whatever we use, I expect it will be an ongoing process, and likely to take a few treatments to reach the best reults.
#98
Suzuka Master
Has anyone tried Meguiars #40 Vinyl and Rubber conditioner from thier Pro line? I use is a lot on difficult situations when I am detailing.
Just a note on 303 / Armoral and the likes .
Quote from Ketch at AutoInt who specializes in product formulation and OEM appearance problems.
The present ArmorAll only differs from many other PDMS dressings, (polydimethalsiloxane) by percentage of the resin mixed into the water that is it's carrier to the surface.
Be it Eagle One, Zanio, Mequiar's, Mother's, 303 etc, all the "white-water based" dressings are PDMS.
This resin DOES NOT DAMAGE vinyl or tires, to have that, happen one would have to use the "greasy kid stuff"/"getto shine" products, which contains petroluem distillates and dimethal silicone fluids.
303 has a higher resin content, the maximum that can be used, which is why it cost more.
Most of the mass marketed PDMS are usually around 18 to 20%, most professional dressings are between 22 and 27%.
Cost is an issue for professional detailers, and even the higher resin 303 does not last "that" much longer than a, say 24% content.
Just looks better for a couple of days.
The "UV" protectant adverstising is pure bunk, it is not possible to actually put "UV" blockers in these types of resins and if it could be done, the product would have to be marketed at about 3 to 4 times a higher price, as a UV component is very, very expensive.
The claim of "UV" protection comes from the resin barrier created and the additional shine, which reflects the damaging UV's.
The real advantage of using a PDMS is protection from the far more damaging ozone that is present. This protection is only there as long as the product is.
Unquote.
Just a note on 303 / Armoral and the likes .
Quote from Ketch at AutoInt who specializes in product formulation and OEM appearance problems.
The present ArmorAll only differs from many other PDMS dressings, (polydimethalsiloxane) by percentage of the resin mixed into the water that is it's carrier to the surface.
Be it Eagle One, Zanio, Mequiar's, Mother's, 303 etc, all the "white-water based" dressings are PDMS.
This resin DOES NOT DAMAGE vinyl or tires, to have that, happen one would have to use the "greasy kid stuff"/"getto shine" products, which contains petroluem distillates and dimethal silicone fluids.
303 has a higher resin content, the maximum that can be used, which is why it cost more.
Most of the mass marketed PDMS are usually around 18 to 20%, most professional dressings are between 22 and 27%.
Cost is an issue for professional detailers, and even the higher resin 303 does not last "that" much longer than a, say 24% content.
Just looks better for a couple of days.
The "UV" protectant adverstising is pure bunk, it is not possible to actually put "UV" blockers in these types of resins and if it could be done, the product would have to be marketed at about 3 to 4 times a higher price, as a UV component is very, very expensive.
The claim of "UV" protection comes from the resin barrier created and the additional shine, which reflects the damaging UV's.
The real advantage of using a PDMS is protection from the far more damaging ozone that is present. This protection is only there as long as the product is.
Unquote.
#100
Yes, he did that
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Great info Jesstzn. It confirmed my feelings that a good product (303 is what I use) + a sun shade will protect against the wear than doing nothing at all.
#102
The DVD-A Script Guy
Originally Posted by Jesstzn
...The present ArmorAll only differs from many other PDMS dressings, (polydimethalsiloxane) by percentage of the resin mixed into the water that is it's carrier to the surface.
Be it Eagle One, Zanio, Mequiar's, Mother's, 303 etc, all the "white-water based" dressings are PDMS. ...
Be it Eagle One, Zanio, Mequiar's, Mother's, 303 etc, all the "white-water based" dressings are PDMS. ...
While I haven't bought Armor All recently I can say that 303 only looks like Armor All (white water) to me. It has a completely different smell, applies differently and doesn't have a greasy residue. When I get Armor All my hands it is so greasy I can't wait to wash them Not so with 303. 303 is expensive but I am much more satisfied with it.
#104
TL 2012 SH-AWD TECH/UMBER
I did an analyse on 303 and I can confirm is Silicon base (PDMS), although it's not very concentrated that's why it doesn't feel greasy as armor all. Plus this product split very easily, take a sample put in a glass and let it stay and you will see the silicon part separate from water. By this way you could see the concentration is not that high.
Some products (clear one) uses some kinds of petroleum oil.
Some products (clear one) uses some kinds of petroleum oil.
#105
Originally Posted by Jesstzn
Quote from Ketch at AutoInt who specializes in product formulation and OEM appearance problems...
#106
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by ChuckDu
Interesting information and an informative website (Autoint.com). Can you cite where you found this quote? I'd like to read more. Looking at the website there's a good amount of information on exterior care but not so much (that I've found) on interior care.
#107
Originally Posted by Adobeman
Many have noted this condition. Some have even had dashes replaced. Many have had good results using 303 Aerospace protect ant on the dash. I'm one of them. Do a search on it to see what others have said. The dash is more matte than other black surfaces in the car so it is prone to some unevenness in shine (or lack off)
Good luck at the dealers.
Good luck at the dealers.
#108
3rd Gear
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Took the Acura in today to Nalley, Marietta, GA. They wiped the dash down with the Acura approved product, Vinylex, said Acura was aware of the problem and was working on it. As for the steering wheel, they treated it too....hope it isn't slick! The label says very plainly, "Do not use on the steering wheel" so we will see........
#109
never stops!
Two year old dash with 303 treatment
My experience with 303 is good. I've been treating my interior with 303 once a quarter and here how it looks after little shy of two years.
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And NO COMMENTS on dice
#112
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by TampaMike
I have been using 303 and generally have been pleased with the results. But I have used some products that deepen the color more to black, and less a graphite color. Optimumly I wanted to get the dash to match closest to the door panels.
This is what I tried... DISCLAIMER: Not everyone agrees on the amount of sheen / luster they desire, nor in what products / brands they use. This is just a SUGGESTION to what I tried with MY TL.
I washed the dash after having used 303 at least twice a month for the 6 months since new. I try to avoid mixing various products or layering them over each other as you could introduce a chemical mix resulting with nasty discoloration (the g/f taught me that with the green hair episode...her hair, somehow my fault! ).
After washing the dash with a mild soapy water, I dried the dash and they it sit. The product I used was Turtle Wax brand's "BLACK CHROME". It is primarly used on black rubber and black trim. I have used it in the past instead of Armour ALL (which I find too greasy & streaky for my tastes). Using a soft, lint free cloth I sparingly worked into the dash, small circular motions (can you feel the love?). It is a graphite color (not quite black) liquid I put a nickle size plop on the cloth at a time. I found it was not streaking and deepened the color (which is what I was seeking). I used it on the dash (soft & dimpled portions), the black door trim and the steering wheel center (airbag cover).
The Results: (drum roll....)
It definately deepened the color tone and appears to be more even than before. I'd say it looks better than when it was new. It is not greasy and smooth / satin to the touch. Dusting the dash when dry did not cause the milky streaks I saw with the 303. I did NOT use it on the black frosted trim (like the stereo head and navi surround / buttons)...that seems best left alone.
The Mitigation: (get ready with the flame throwers....)
It does produce a bit more sheen than 303 (or Lexol). It is NOT as glossy or greasy I have experienced with Armour All (even their low gloss formula). But that sheen lessens as it dries, again even tone but I do see it has some sheen than now matches the sheen and color tone of the doors (my TL is parch, so I have that 2 tone interior). The product is ideal for exterior trim, but states it is fine for all plastics, vinyl and rubber (even plood). Those that like the flat finish look may not approve.
Long Term Test: To be determined, but if a bi monthly application is required, I am fine with that. BUT, I do park in a garage at home and at the office, so I may not experience some of the fade others are reporting. Being a product designed for exterior trim, perhaps that will improve its durability on interior trim... time will tell.
Now <stepping aside> let the debate rage on!
This is what I tried... DISCLAIMER: Not everyone agrees on the amount of sheen / luster they desire, nor in what products / brands they use. This is just a SUGGESTION to what I tried with MY TL.
I washed the dash after having used 303 at least twice a month for the 6 months since new. I try to avoid mixing various products or layering them over each other as you could introduce a chemical mix resulting with nasty discoloration (the g/f taught me that with the green hair episode...her hair, somehow my fault! ).
After washing the dash with a mild soapy water, I dried the dash and they it sit. The product I used was Turtle Wax brand's "BLACK CHROME". It is primarly used on black rubber and black trim. I have used it in the past instead of Armour ALL (which I find too greasy & streaky for my tastes). Using a soft, lint free cloth I sparingly worked into the dash, small circular motions (can you feel the love?). It is a graphite color (not quite black) liquid I put a nickle size plop on the cloth at a time. I found it was not streaking and deepened the color (which is what I was seeking). I used it on the dash (soft & dimpled portions), the black door trim and the steering wheel center (airbag cover).
The Results: (drum roll....)
It definately deepened the color tone and appears to be more even than before. I'd say it looks better than when it was new. It is not greasy and smooth / satin to the touch. Dusting the dash when dry did not cause the milky streaks I saw with the 303. I did NOT use it on the black frosted trim (like the stereo head and navi surround / buttons)...that seems best left alone.
The Mitigation: (get ready with the flame throwers....)
It does produce a bit more sheen than 303 (or Lexol). It is NOT as glossy or greasy I have experienced with Armour All (even their low gloss formula). But that sheen lessens as it dries, again even tone but I do see it has some sheen than now matches the sheen and color tone of the doors (my TL is parch, so I have that 2 tone interior). The product is ideal for exterior trim, but states it is fine for all plastics, vinyl and rubber (even plood). Those that like the flat finish look may not approve.
Long Term Test: To be determined, but if a bi monthly application is required, I am fine with that. BUT, I do park in a garage at home and at the office, so I may not experience some of the fade others are reporting. Being a product designed for exterior trim, perhaps that will improve its durability on interior trim... time will tell.
Now <stepping aside> let the debate rage on!
Thanks
#114
Originally Posted by Tennisjon2002
are there any pics of the dash fade problem?? I have lots of people talk about it but never seen it for myself. Thanks!
I will try to get pics of my dash posted, but with Wilma approaching, I expect my TL will remain nested in the garage for the next day or two.
I did some research on Turtle Wax 'Black Chrome' which only shows up on UK web sites for purchase now. They have domestically created a new line of product call F21(?), which I have no experience with for this issue. I have however, mentioned above that Black Magic makes a dash treatment product that specifes 'black matte dash' and semi gloss, non greasy finish.
#115
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by ChuckDu
Geez, is this a scavenger hunt? I figured out the first clue. It's not VWVortec.com, it's VWVortex.com.
Go there and do a search on Ketch ...
#116
Racer
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Well, so I took my car to Acura to talk to the DPSM about the dash fade. My appt was for 10. He was running late and said he would be in at 10:30. By 11 am he still was not there. The dealership's service manager was so embarrassed and couyld noit even get him on the phone. Have not gotten a call from the DPSM explaining the "blow-off" or apologizing.
Acura TLC my ass - more like Acura arrogance. I am writing a letter to ACS (worthless group but will get it out of my system).
I am so tired of the lack of customer service displayed by corporate Acura. My dealership is fine but once you kick it up, forget it. Next year, I will be trading or selling the TL.
Acura TLC my ass - more like Acura arrogance. I am writing a letter to ACS (worthless group but will get it out of my system).
I am so tired of the lack of customer service displayed by corporate Acura. My dealership is fine but once you kick it up, forget it. Next year, I will be trading or selling the TL.
#117
Instructor
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Originally Posted by JoganJani
My experience with 303 is good. I've been treating my interior with 303 once a quarter and here how it looks after little shy of two years.
And NO COMMENTS on dice
And NO COMMENTS on dice
#118
Advanced
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Originally Posted by JoganJani
My experience with 303 is good. I've been treating my interior with 303 once a quarter and here how it looks after little shy of two years.
And NO COMMENTS on dice
And NO COMMENTS on dice
I'm assuming the sun is what's causing the dash to fade.
#119
never stops!
Originally Posted by hcekc
The dice? What about the girlie air freshener? Dude you girlfriend has you whipped! BTW, what scent do you have?
Originally Posted by ALPHSTER
How often do you use that sunshade in the photos? I'm sure that has to help too. I'm thinking of getting one because it can't hurt. I know it has to be a pain but what the hell better than a faded dash.
I'm assuming the sun is what's causing the dash to fade.
I'm assuming the sun is what's causing the dash to fade.
#120
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Originally Posted by ALPHSTER
I'm assuming the sun is what's causing the dash to fade.