Clutch Replacement
02-11-2011, 09:56 PM
#43
btw my Clutchmaster's clutch is just a Sachs clutch
i would say there are like 3 main suppliers of clutches in the world really (who actually manufacture them (Daiken=Asia ;LUK=N.A.; Sachs=Europe)
02-26-2011, 01:41 AM
#44
Cruisin'
Hello all...just got a new to me 2008 TL Type S. I absolutely love the car and have had a few of the issues noted here. I will be taking it in to have the transmission fixed as it is doing the dreaded "third gear popput"
I have noticed during downshifting, there is a bit of a shudder as the clutch is re-engaged. Talking to one of the techs...he mentioned my clutch is probably heading south and he also said it is not uncommon for Type-S clutches to give up the ghost at around 100,000km. The car currently has 57,000km and since I bought it used I have no idea how the previous driver was on the clutch.
My question is since the car is going in to have some tranny work to fix the third gear issue...would it make sense to replace the clutch as the same time?
I have noticed during downshifting, there is a bit of a shudder as the clutch is re-engaged. Talking to one of the techs...he mentioned my clutch is probably heading south and he also said it is not uncommon for Type-S clutches to give up the ghost at around 100,000km. The car currently has 57,000km and since I bought it used I have no idea how the previous driver was on the clutch.
My question is since the car is going in to have some tranny work to fix the third gear issue...would it make sense to replace the clutch as the same time?
02-26-2011, 07:13 AM
#45
Registered Member
Hello all...just got a new to me 2008 TL Type S. I absolutely love the car and have had a few of the issues noted here. I will be taking it in to have the transmission fixed as it is doing the dreaded "third gear popput"
I have noticed during downshifting, there is a bit of a shudder as the clutch is re-engaged. Talking to one of the techs...he mentioned my clutch is probably heading south and he also said it is not uncommon for Type-S clutches to give up the ghost at around 100,000km. The car currently has 57,000km and since I bought it used I have no idea how the previous driver was on the clutch.
My question is since the car is going in to have some tranny work to fix the third gear issue...would it make sense to replace the clutch as the same time?
I have noticed during downshifting, there is a bit of a shudder as the clutch is re-engaged. Talking to one of the techs...he mentioned my clutch is probably heading south and he also said it is not uncommon for Type-S clutches to give up the ghost at around 100,000km. The car currently has 57,000km and since I bought it used I have no idea how the previous driver was on the clutch.
My question is since the car is going in to have some tranny work to fix the third gear issue...would it make sense to replace the clutch as the same time?
- Remove foot from throttle.
- Depress clutch pedal.
- Shift into lower gear.
- Slowly release clutch pedal.
The above method of downshifting causes significant wear on the pressure-creating components. This is not the proper way to downshift.
As to your question about replacing the clutch since they are going to be removing your transmission for the TSB, yes I would do this since like you said, you don't really know how the car was operated by its previous owner. May as well have it done now and then you will be starting off fresh.
02-26-2011, 10:17 AM
#46
Head a da Family
Join Date: Jul 2003
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When I had my timing belt / water pump job done a few months ago, the Honda mechanic who did the work said "When You've Done Over a Hundred Of These As I Have, You Know The Sequence and Properties of Every Last Part, Bolt, and Screw, Involved". Needless to say, he completed the job in about 4 hours and there's been no problems since.
.
.
.
Last edited by DMZ; 02-26-2011 at 10:19 AM.
02-26-2011, 11:47 AM
#47
^ I think the opposite. No one will care more about doing it right than yourself.
I've had dealerships do work that almost always ended up either with the same problem recurring or come back worse than it was to begin with. Unless it's something to support the warranty while the car is new (ie regular maintenance stuff), I stay away.
I've had dealerships do work that almost always ended up either with the same problem recurring or come back worse than it was to begin with. Unless it's something to support the warranty while the car is new (ie regular maintenance stuff), I stay away.
02-26-2011, 12:05 PM
#48
That's why I'd only have this kind of work done at the stealership or a Honda/Acura specialty shop and ONLY using OEM parts. You want a mechanic with extensive experience at doing this kind of work on Honda & Acura vehicles. Because if something goes wrong ..................
When I had my timing belt / water pump job done a few months ago, the Honda mechanic who did the work said "When You've Done Over a Hundred Of These As I Have, You Know The Sequence and Properties of Every Last Part, Bolt, and Screw, Involved". Needless to say, he completed the job in about 4 hours and there's been no problems since.
.
.
.
When I had my timing belt / water pump job done a few months ago, the Honda mechanic who did the work said "When You've Done Over a Hundred Of These As I Have, You Know The Sequence and Properties of Every Last Part, Bolt, and Screw, Involved". Needless to say, he completed the job in about 4 hours and there's been no problems since.
.
.
.
or you get the one, where they learn all the little shortcuts, and do not follow the procedure by the book instead, because they think they know the procedure too well
02-27-2011, 02:39 AM
#49
Cruisin'
Thanks for the advice. I am leaning towards getting the clutch replaced as it just seems to make more sense to get it done at the same time as the transmission work is being completed.
As far as my technique goes while downshifting...I try to rev match as much as possible while downshifting, but I try not to use engine braking unless I am going down a major grade...I use the brakes to slow the car down...not my tranny. The shudder I felt is something I have never experienced in the 25+years of driving manual transmissions. I traded in a 2001 Honda Accord 4cyl w/5 speed manual on this car and while I understand there are some major differences between the cars...the Accord's tranny and shift engagement was always butter smooth.
As far as my technique goes while downshifting...I try to rev match as much as possible while downshifting, but I try not to use engine braking unless I am going down a major grade...I use the brakes to slow the car down...not my tranny. The shudder I felt is something I have never experienced in the 25+years of driving manual transmissions. I traded in a 2001 Honda Accord 4cyl w/5 speed manual on this car and while I understand there are some major differences between the cars...the Accord's tranny and shift engagement was always butter smooth.
02-27-2011, 08:06 AM
#50
Registered Member
Thanks for the advice. I am leaning towards getting the clutch replaced as it just seems to make more sense to get it done at the same time as the transmission work is being completed.
As far as my technique goes while downshifting...I try to rev match as much as possible while downshifting, but I try not to use engine braking unless I am going down a major grade...I use the brakes to slow the car down...not my tranny. The shudder I felt is something I have never experienced in the 25+years of driving manual transmissions. I traded in a 2001 Honda Accord 4cyl w/5 speed manual on this car and while I understand there are some major differences between the cars...the Accord's tranny and shift engagement was always butter smooth.
As far as my technique goes while downshifting...I try to rev match as much as possible while downshifting, but I try not to use engine braking unless I am going down a major grade...I use the brakes to slow the car down...not my tranny. The shudder I felt is something I have never experienced in the 25+years of driving manual transmissions. I traded in a 2001 Honda Accord 4cyl w/5 speed manual on this car and while I understand there are some major differences between the cars...the Accord's tranny and shift engagement was always butter smooth.
Let us know how it goes for you.
03-02-2011, 10:47 AM
#51
Got my new clutch put in and have about 300 miles on it... All seems ok...
Question: How would you know if your pressure plate was permanently damaged by improper installation?
My car seems jerky when I shift and my dad even made a comment about it.
Perhaps I am not shifting my car correctly... I see a post up above about how not to downshift...can anyone reply with the correct procedure for up and down shifting in the Acura TL?
Question: How would you know if your pressure plate was permanently damaged by improper installation?
My car seems jerky when I shift and my dad even made a comment about it.
Perhaps I am not shifting my car correctly... I see a post up above about how not to downshift...can anyone reply with the correct procedure for up and down shifting in the Acura TL?
03-02-2011, 08:12 PM
#52
Got my new clutch put in and have about 300 miles on it... All seems ok...
Question: How would you know if your pressure plate was permanently damaged by improper installation?
My car seems jerky when I shift and my dad even made a comment about it.
Perhaps I am not shifting my car correctly... I see a post up above about how not to downshift...can anyone reply with the correct procedure for up and down shifting in the Acura TL?
Question: How would you know if your pressure plate was permanently damaged by improper installation?
My car seems jerky when I shift and my dad even made a comment about it.
Perhaps I am not shifting my car correctly... I see a post up above about how not to downshift...can anyone reply with the correct procedure for up and down shifting in the Acura TL?
btw did they replace the flywheel also?
03-03-2011, 06:40 AM
#53
Registered Member
Got my new clutch put in and have about 300 miles on it... All seems ok...
Question: How would you know if your pressure plate was permanently damaged by improper installation?
My car seems jerky when I shift and my dad even made a comment about it.
Perhaps I am not shifting my car correctly... I see a post up above about how not to downshift...can anyone reply with the correct procedure for up and down shifting in the Acura TL?
Question: How would you know if your pressure plate was permanently damaged by improper installation?
My car seems jerky when I shift and my dad even made a comment about it.
Perhaps I am not shifting my car correctly... I see a post up above about how not to downshift...can anyone reply with the correct procedure for up and down shifting in the Acura TL?
This is pretty unlikely, but not out of the realm of possibility. You would experience shuttering (probably a lot of it), possibly slippage, and perhaps some noise.
"My car seems jerky when I shift and my dad even made a comment about it."
You've got new contact surfaces that need to be "married". The reasons why people have had problems and have even complained on this site about their difficulty with the TL clutch are several. The pedal has a relatively short travel and an even shorter takeup than similar cars (takeup is the distance the pedal travels from the point of initial engagement to full engagement). Couple this with the fact that initial engagement is most always set to occur pretty close to a fully depressed pedal; in other words, within two inches from the stop pad on the firewall. And lastly, the amount of takeup required from the point of initial engagement to the point where enough pressure is being exerted to move the car is short. This makes the clutch feel "touchy" and can easily lead to jerking, bucking, and stalling or a tendency to over-rev the engine from a stop. This will tend to be magnified with a new clutch assembly.
"Perhaps I am not shifting my car correctly... I see a post up above about how not to downshift...can anyone reply with the correct procedure for up and down shifting in the Acura TL?"
The correct way to upshift for normal driving is to let the transmission be the teacher. When learning, watch your tach so you'll get a feel for the correct RPM range to let the clutch out in the chosen higher gear. Don't quick shift (this increases synchronizer wear) and avoid skip shifting unless you know what you're doing. You'll know when you are doing it right because the transition will be so smooth, you won't even notice it and the shift into the higher gear will feel almost as though the transmission is pulling your shifter for you a little.
We've gone over downshifting so much and I get some heat from folks on this site because I advocate double clutching when doing this. In case you don't know the difference between rev-matching and double clutching, here's a quick definition.
Rev-matching is a technique where engine speed is increased during the shift in order to have the flywheel and pressure plate as near to the speed of the friction disk when the operator engages the clutch upon shift completion. This significantly reduces clutch wear, but does nothing to reduce synchronizer wear.
Double clutching is a technique that does the same thing as rev-matching but takes that technique a step further because the clutch components are engaged during the shift when the throttle is "blipped" in order to force the flywheel and pressure plate speed to match the transmission input shaft speed when the shift is completed. This not only significantly reduces clutch wear, but reduces synchronizer wear as well.
People will tell you that you don't need to do this because our transmissions are fully synchronized and they'd be right. However, synchronized manual transmissions have been around since 1929 (Cadillac) so they are not exactly new on the scene. Also, we all know about the problems Honda/Acura has been having with their third gear issue, so many in fact that they issued a TSB several years ago. My '04 manual with nearly 82,000 miles, has never had one hint of any of the problems reported on this site. No grinding, no popping out of gear, no difficulty in completing shifts.... not one problem whatsoever. So I ask you, who is right about this?
If you want to try a little experiment to feel the difference between a "normal" versus a double clutched downshift, do this. Get going and into second gear, then slow down to perhaps 5 MPH like you are going to downshift into first because of railroad tracks or perhaps a rough spot in the road. Now depress the clutch and shift into first gear (at 5 MPH). You'll notice a fair amount of resistance before the shifter goes into first gear. That's the synchronizers trying to match shaft speeds. There is wear going on when you do this. Now do this again but this time, do it with a double clutched downshift. If you do this correctly, there will be no resistance and your shifter will slip into first gear as though the car was stationary.
03-03-2011, 09:56 AM
#56
the overexplainer
People will tell you that you don't need to do this because our transmissions are fully synchronized and they'd be right.... No grinding, no popping out of gear, no difficulty in completing shifts.... not one problem whatsoever. So I ask you, who is right about this?
Heel and toe double clutching is pretty interesting footwork.
03-03-2011, 10:35 AM
#57
Registered Member
This. I've always made it a habit to double clutch when downshifting (but I dont downshift too often unless i'm coming up on moving traffic. Coming to a stop I usually stay in whichever gear until RPMs are just about idle).
Heel and toe double clutching is pretty interesting footwork.
Heel and toe double clutching is pretty interesting footwork.
Now heel-and-toeing... that's a skill I never spent time to master. Good for those who have.
03-08-2011, 06:58 PM
#58
Cruisin'
Just an update on the issues I have been having with my six speed manual transmission in my 2008 TL-S. I originally took the car into the dealership where I bought it to have the TSB performed for the infamous "third gear issue". I was told the after the TSB service was performed the car would not shift into reverse and that the reverse synchro was shot and needed to be replaced. Fast forward to today and I was notified that even after replacing the reverse gear synchro the car will still not shift into reverse. The dealership has had many techs look this over and I am at a loss as to what to do next. I havent even owned it for a month and it has spent 3/4's of that time sitting in their shop. I am loosing patience with this as what seemed like a relatively easy fix has blossomed into a nightmare. I have never experienced issues of this kind...especially with a high Japanese manufacturer such as Acura. I am seriously considering telling them to keep the dam car and give me my Accord back...so much for CPO...not even worth the paper it was written on for sure. I am so frustrated as they cannot even give me an answer as to what went wrong...all I know is that the car shifted just fine into reverse when I brought it in and now reverse has decided to go on a vacation. They are currently dismantling the transmission for the third time to see if they can find out why. What I am worried about is the long term longevity of the car....frustrated....any suggestions?
03-08-2011, 08:08 PM
#59
Just an update on the issues I have been having with my six speed manual transmission in my 2008 TL-S. I originally took the car into the dealership where I bought it to have the TSB performed for the infamous "third gear issue". I was told the after the TSB service was performed the car would not shift into reverse and that the reverse synchro was shot and needed to be replaced. Fast forward to today and I was notified that even after replacing the reverse gear synchro the car will still not shift into reverse. The dealership has had many techs look this over and I am at a loss as to what to do next. I havent even owned it for a month and it has spent 3/4's of that time sitting in their shop. I am loosing patience with this as what seemed like a relatively easy fix has blossomed into a nightmare. I have never experienced issues of this kind...especially with a high Japanese manufacturer such as Acura. I am seriously considering telling them to keep the dam car and give me my Accord back...so much for CPO...not even worth the paper it was written on for sure. I am so frustrated as they cannot even give me an answer as to what went wrong...all I know is that the car shifted just fine into reverse when I brought it in and now reverse has decided to go on a vacation. They are currently dismantling the transmission for the third time to see if they can find out why. What I am worried about is the long term longevity of the car....frustrated....any suggestions?
Demand a new replacement tranny.
03-08-2011, 09:30 PM
#60
Registered Member
Just an update on the issues I have been having with my six speed manual transmission in my 2008 TL-S. I originally took the car into the dealership where I bought it to have the TSB performed for the infamous "third gear issue". I was told the after the TSB service was performed the car would not shift into reverse and that the reverse synchro was shot and needed to be replaced. Fast forward to today and I was notified that even after replacing the reverse gear synchro the car will still not shift into reverse. The dealership has had many techs look this over and I am at a loss as to what to do next. I havent even owned it for a month and it has spent 3/4's of that time sitting in their shop. I am loosing patience with this as what seemed like a relatively easy fix has blossomed into a nightmare. I have never experienced issues of this kind...especially with a high Japanese manufacturer such as Acura. I am seriously considering telling them to keep the dam car and give me my Accord back...so much for CPO...not even worth the paper it was written on for sure. I am so frustrated as they cannot even give me an answer as to what went wrong...all I know is that the car shifted just fine into reverse when I brought it in and now reverse has decided to go on a vacation. They are currently dismantling the transmission for the third time to see if they can find out why. What I am worried about is the long term longevity of the car....frustrated....any suggestions?
03-08-2011, 10:51 PM
#61
Cruisin'
Thanks to all who have responded.
The reason I took it to the dealer was the fact that the car is still under full warranty and I thought...I guess somewhat naively...that would be the best option. I had read through the forums regarding issues the 3rd gen TL has had and honestly there was nothing other than the 3rd gear issue so I knew going into the purchase that my car most likely would exhibit the same behavior as the majority of other forum members. I thought it would be a relatively easy fix. I am regretting not trying the fluid as recommended by so many people, but I wasnt convinced that the fluid could actually cure a mechanical issue.
So I am left with my TL-S sitting in a shop, unable to engage reverse. I basically told the manager of the dealership how unhappy I was with the situation and left them with three options. First was to fix the dam car PROPERLY. Second was to order me a brand new not rebuilt transmission. Third was to get ready to buy this dam car back from me. I am about to release the hounds on em. Dont get me wrong...they are being more than accomodating and I am not paying a dime for any of this but I am tired of not being able to drive my sweet machine.
Overall this has been a very stressful experience as I was just starting to get used to the car and I fell in absolute love with it...it really is a great machine. I will find out more tomorrow morning...wish me luck.
The reason I took it to the dealer was the fact that the car is still under full warranty and I thought...I guess somewhat naively...that would be the best option. I had read through the forums regarding issues the 3rd gen TL has had and honestly there was nothing other than the 3rd gear issue so I knew going into the purchase that my car most likely would exhibit the same behavior as the majority of other forum members. I thought it would be a relatively easy fix. I am regretting not trying the fluid as recommended by so many people, but I wasnt convinced that the fluid could actually cure a mechanical issue.
So I am left with my TL-S sitting in a shop, unable to engage reverse. I basically told the manager of the dealership how unhappy I was with the situation and left them with three options. First was to fix the dam car PROPERLY. Second was to order me a brand new not rebuilt transmission. Third was to get ready to buy this dam car back from me. I am about to release the hounds on em. Dont get me wrong...they are being more than accomodating and I am not paying a dime for any of this but I am tired of not being able to drive my sweet machine.
Overall this has been a very stressful experience as I was just starting to get used to the car and I fell in absolute love with it...it really is a great machine. I will find out more tomorrow morning...wish me luck.
03-11-2011, 01:48 AM
#63
Cruisin'
Yes....they gave me a 2010 CSX which I drove the bag off of until today when I finally got my car back.
I picked up the car today after having the third gear issue repaired and a new clutch as well. The car is an absolute dream now. The shift feel is much improved and no issues engaging 3rd gear or reverse. I am happy with the job done even though I had some issues with reverse gear not engaging after the dealership first took the tranny apart but that has since been fixed. Apparently the issue with reverse gear had to do with installing the reverse syncho improperly. It is tapered on one end and if it is installed backwards, reverse will not engage. I recommend anyone who has had issues with reverse after performing the "3rd Gear TSB" to make absolutely sure the reverse syncho is installed correctly.
It feels like a brand new car.
Gotta go...there is a road that needs to be driven
Thanks to everyone for their advice and support.
05-13-2011, 08:24 AM
#64
Advanced
When they change the clutch, do they need to drain the tranny, or just drop the tranny?
I need to know if I should be providing new GM Synchromesh for the service?
Please advise.
Thank you.
I need to know if I should be providing new GM Synchromesh for the service?
Please advise.
Thank you.
06-19-2011, 06:42 PM
#65
信是寶
Join Date: Feb 2005
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West Chester Acura dealer said around $2k for the job, I have 132k miles on her and clutch is still working fine.
On a side note, I stopped downshifting at around 50k, since it is cheaper and a diy for brakes/rotors, unlike the clutch job.
On a side note, I stopped downshifting at around 50k, since it is cheaper and a diy for brakes/rotors, unlike the clutch job.
06-20-2011, 06:52 AM
#66
Registered Member
When one downshifts correctly, this is not necessary. In fact, when done correctly, downshifting produces significantly less clutch wear (virtually none, actually) than moving from a dead stop.
06-21-2011, 05:50 PM
#67
he said he had a fleet vehicle. most ppl dont know how to drive properly. they probably FUCKED that shit up!
mine went out early as well. i replaced mine at 35,000 on 11/05/2010.
probably a combination of previous owner, and test drivers and myself learning how to drive this car....Ive been driving manuals for at least 5 years now...but this car is way different in terms of clutch feel.
im used to american clutches, i did not understand the concept of why this clutch grabbed so low.
mine went out early as well. i replaced mine at 35,000 on 11/05/2010.
probably a combination of previous owner, and test drivers and myself learning how to drive this car....Ive been driving manuals for at least 5 years now...but this car is way different in terms of clutch feel.
im used to american clutches, i did not understand the concept of why this clutch grabbed so low.
06-22-2011, 06:00 AM
#69
Registered Member
Uhm idk what you are talking about grabbing low.... my clutch I bearly press to shift. I only press it in when starting the car besides that is a light press and your golden. What it sounds like is that you drive how a lot of people do hold the clutch till the car starts going to about 10 mph
As for the rest of your post, I don't understand what you are trying to convey.
06-22-2011, 06:02 AM
#70
Registered Member
Our flywheels are dual mass units. If I am not mistaken, I don't think resurfacing is recommended but I am open to correction with this.
05-18-2012, 06:18 AM
#71
Cruisin'
Clutch Is Slipping
I have a 2004 TL 6speed MT. Lately I've noticed that the transmission has been slipping at low rpms My TL has 157,000 miles on it. I bought it pre- owned with 30,000 miles. The clutch has never been replaced. Question is should i be expecting to change the flywheel as well. I change the MT transmission fluid every 30,000 miles. Ive noticed before that I have depressed the clutch and the car didn't want to go in to gear is that air? should I bleed the line first or just look to spend this money. I have no lost of power though, the only thing is when I accelerate just little slips when i depress the gas at times.
05-18-2012, 07:53 AM
#72
Registered Member
I have a 2004 TL 6speed MT. Lately I've noticed that the transmission has been slipping at low rpms My TL has 157,000 miles on it. I bought it pre- owned with 30,000 miles. The clutch has never been replaced. Question is should i be expecting to change the flywheel as well. I change the MT transmission fluid every 30,000 miles. Ive noticed before that I have depressed the clutch and the car didn't want to go in to gear is that air? should I bleed the line first or just look to spend this money. I have no lost of power though, the only thing is when I accelerate just little slips when i depress the gas at times.
If you are having trouble getting the transmission into gear, then yes you might have low levels of fluid or a failing master cylinder.
05-18-2012, 11:19 AM
#73
Registered Member
Oops, I meant "Well first off, manual transmissions do not slip" not "Well first off, manual transmissions do slip". A typo slip on my part.
08-06-2015, 09:45 PM
#74
Advanced
"Question: How would you know if your pressure plate was permanently damaged by improper installation?"
This is pretty unlikely, but not out of the realm of possibility. You would experience shuttering (probably a lot of it), possibly slippage, and perhaps some noise.
"My car seems jerky when I shift and my dad even made a comment about it."
You've got new contact surfaces that need to be "married". The reasons why people have had problems and have even complained on this site about their difficulty with the TL clutch are several. The pedal has a relatively short travel and an even shorter takeup than similar cars (takeup is the distance the pedal travels from the point of initial engagement to full engagement). Couple this with the fact that initial engagement is most always set to occur pretty close to a fully depressed pedal; in other words, within two inches from the stop pad on the firewall. And lastly, the amount of takeup required from the point of initial engagement to the point where enough pressure is being exerted to move the car is short. This makes the clutch feel "touchy" and can easily lead to jerking, bucking, and stalling or a tendency to over-rev the engine from a stop. This will tend to be magnified with a new clutch assembly.
"Perhaps I am not shifting my car correctly... I see a post up above about how not to downshift...can anyone reply with the correct procedure for up and down shifting in the Acura TL?"
The correct way to upshift for normal driving is to let the transmission be the teacher. When learning, watch your tach so you'll get a feel for the correct RPM range to let the clutch out in the chosen higher gear. Don't quick shift (this increases synchronizer wear) and avoid skip shifting unless you know what you're doing. You'll know when you are doing it right because the transition will be so smooth, you won't even notice it and the shift into the higher gear will feel almost as though the transmission is pulling your shifter for you a little.
We've gone over downshifting so much and I get some heat from folks on this site because I advocate double clutching when doing this. In case you don't know the difference between rev-matching and double clutching, here's a quick definition.
Rev-matching is a technique where engine speed is increased during the shift in order to have the flywheel and pressure plate as near to the speed of the friction disk when the operator engages the clutch upon shift completion. This significantly reduces clutch wear, but does nothing to reduce synchronizer wear.
Double clutching is a technique that does the same thing as rev-matching but takes that technique a step further because the clutch components are engaged during the shift when the throttle is "blipped" in order to force the flywheel and pressure plate speed to match the transmission input shaft speed when the shift is completed. This not only significantly reduces clutch wear, but reduces synchronizer wear as well.
People will tell you that you don't need to do this because our transmissions are fully synchronized and they'd be right. However, synchronized manual transmissions have been around since 1929 (Cadillac) so they are not exactly new on the scene. Also, we all know about the problems Honda/Acura has been having with their third gear issue, so many in fact that they issued a TSB several years ago. My '04 manual with nearly 82,000 miles, has never had one hint of any of the problems reported on this site. No grinding, no popping out of gear, no difficulty in completing shifts.... not one problem whatsoever. So I ask you, who is right about this?
If you want to try a little experiment to feel the difference between a "normal" versus a double clutched downshift, do this. Get going and into second gear, then slow down to perhaps 5 MPH like you are going to downshift into first because of railroad tracks or perhaps a rough spot in the road. Now depress the clutch and shift into first gear (at 5 MPH). You'll notice a fair amount of resistance before the shifter goes into first gear. That's the synchronizers trying to match shaft speeds. There is wear going on when you do this. Now do this again but this time, do it with a double clutched downshift. If you do this correctly, there will be no resistance and your shifter will slip into first gear as though the car was stationary.
This is pretty unlikely, but not out of the realm of possibility. You would experience shuttering (probably a lot of it), possibly slippage, and perhaps some noise.
"My car seems jerky when I shift and my dad even made a comment about it."
You've got new contact surfaces that need to be "married". The reasons why people have had problems and have even complained on this site about their difficulty with the TL clutch are several. The pedal has a relatively short travel and an even shorter takeup than similar cars (takeup is the distance the pedal travels from the point of initial engagement to full engagement). Couple this with the fact that initial engagement is most always set to occur pretty close to a fully depressed pedal; in other words, within two inches from the stop pad on the firewall. And lastly, the amount of takeup required from the point of initial engagement to the point where enough pressure is being exerted to move the car is short. This makes the clutch feel "touchy" and can easily lead to jerking, bucking, and stalling or a tendency to over-rev the engine from a stop. This will tend to be magnified with a new clutch assembly.
"Perhaps I am not shifting my car correctly... I see a post up above about how not to downshift...can anyone reply with the correct procedure for up and down shifting in the Acura TL?"
The correct way to upshift for normal driving is to let the transmission be the teacher. When learning, watch your tach so you'll get a feel for the correct RPM range to let the clutch out in the chosen higher gear. Don't quick shift (this increases synchronizer wear) and avoid skip shifting unless you know what you're doing. You'll know when you are doing it right because the transition will be so smooth, you won't even notice it and the shift into the higher gear will feel almost as though the transmission is pulling your shifter for you a little.
We've gone over downshifting so much and I get some heat from folks on this site because I advocate double clutching when doing this. In case you don't know the difference between rev-matching and double clutching, here's a quick definition.
Rev-matching is a technique where engine speed is increased during the shift in order to have the flywheel and pressure plate as near to the speed of the friction disk when the operator engages the clutch upon shift completion. This significantly reduces clutch wear, but does nothing to reduce synchronizer wear.
Double clutching is a technique that does the same thing as rev-matching but takes that technique a step further because the clutch components are engaged during the shift when the throttle is "blipped" in order to force the flywheel and pressure plate speed to match the transmission input shaft speed when the shift is completed. This not only significantly reduces clutch wear, but reduces synchronizer wear as well.
People will tell you that you don't need to do this because our transmissions are fully synchronized and they'd be right. However, synchronized manual transmissions have been around since 1929 (Cadillac) so they are not exactly new on the scene. Also, we all know about the problems Honda/Acura has been having with their third gear issue, so many in fact that they issued a TSB several years ago. My '04 manual with nearly 82,000 miles, has never had one hint of any of the problems reported on this site. No grinding, no popping out of gear, no difficulty in completing shifts.... not one problem whatsoever. So I ask you, who is right about this?
If you want to try a little experiment to feel the difference between a "normal" versus a double clutched downshift, do this. Get going and into second gear, then slow down to perhaps 5 MPH like you are going to downshift into first because of railroad tracks or perhaps a rough spot in the road. Now depress the clutch and shift into first gear (at 5 MPH). You'll notice a fair amount of resistance before the shifter goes into first gear. That's the synchronizers trying to match shaft speeds. There is wear going on when you do this. Now do this again but this time, do it with a double clutched downshift. If you do this correctly, there will be no resistance and your shifter will slip into first gear as though the car was stationary.
I'm considering getting my CMC replaced. I'm curious your thoughts on that. I purchased the car 7 months ago, at 117,000 miles from the original owner. As far as I know original clutch assembly and all. My clutch seems totally fine, in all areas except the fact that there seems to be a slipping at high revs when shifting quickly (the clutch isn't grabbing).... Logically this could be the clutch telling you "replace me!" Also, when testing how it grabs elsewise, 45mph in 5th, punch the Clutch pedal under WOT.... the Clutch does not grab and the engine hits the Rev limiter. Also, this last winter (in MN, when it was 0 degrees or so) my clutch peddle stuck to the floor. I don't think it's the Clutch needing replacement, but maybe? I'm still leaning towards the CMC Replacement due to the TSB? Possibly proper greasing, but I doubt this will be a permanent fix, perhaps a couple weeks at best.... The engagement is still normal as just so as you described, which I LOVE about this car. I've driven a fair amount of MT for kids my age, 23, and a fair variety of cars as well (C5 Z06 putting down 500+hp, 2010 Jetta, 04 Mazda 6 V6, 89 F-150 w/warped clutch, 89 Porsche 944S2, 2011 Carrera 4S, 2011 Ford Focus ST, 2011 Ford Fiesta ST, 06 TL.... I'm sure I'm forgetting haha). And this TL took me 2 week to master.... All the other cars it took 1 or 2 runs through the gearbox haha.
Anyway, if you or anyone sees this, I would appreciate your thoughts on my symptoms and potential fixes....
04-09-2018, 02:20 PM
#75
The OEM clutch and pressure plate (they only come as a set) are ~$300. There is a special Honda/Acura tool that preloads the pressure plate, if you do not have the tool the plate will become prenamently damaged. Ususally you can special order the special tools from Honda/Acura.
05-23-2022, 02:02 PM
#76
6th Gear
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My 05 TL has 75000 miles, and I start to notice that clutch starts to slip at high rpms. I was wondering if anyone attempted to replace clutch by themselves without going to the dealership, is it same as any other car, or do I need special tools? I read that best clutch to get is OEM, what do they go for? I have replaced clutches previously and it wasn't that bad. What I'm afraid of is that cars I fixed were no more that $10000, TL is bit more expensive, I do not want to get myself into a one week project.
05-23-2022, 03:38 PM
#77
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p.../#post16818575
Go there and do the Ghetto-Ukrainian/Brother technique with least amount of tools and space needed. Wont need to remove the tranny, just move it over.
05-24-2022, 11:14 AM
#78
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Acura TL Builder (05-24-2022),
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05-24-2022, 12:34 PM
#79
Head a da Family
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That's why they call 'em stealerships!
The whole job from an independent shop shouldn't run more than about $1200-$1500. You can get the LUK (OEM) clutch kit and flywheel from rockauto for under $500. Add about $600-$700 for labor. Consider replacing the rear main oil seal at this age too since everything will be opened up.
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Acura TL Builder (05-26-2022)
