Changing Oil
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Bakersfield
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,442
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From: Houston, Texas
Agree. It is possible to "shoot yourself in the foot" this way. There is a compromise between fine filtration and flow rate.
IHC,
Without looking, can you name what brand of oil filter that is used by the founder of BobIsTheOilGuy ? And, what is his reason for using that brand of oil filter ? Remember, no peeking !
IHC,
Without looking, can you name what brand of oil filter that is used by the founder of BobIsTheOilGuy ? And, what is his reason for using that brand of oil filter ? Remember, no peeking !
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,818
From: Bakersfield
Agree. It is possible to "shoot yourself in the foot" this way. There is a compromise between fine filtration and flow rate.
IHC,
Without looking, can you name what brand of oil filter that is used by the founder of BobIsTheOilGuy ? And, what is his reason for using that brand of oil filter ? Remember, no peeking !
IHC,
Without looking, can you name what brand of oil filter that is used by the founder of BobIsTheOilGuy ? And, what is his reason for using that brand of oil filter ? Remember, no peeking !
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,442
Likes: 482
From: Houston, Texas
IHC, Thanks for playing fair and not looking. He uses (I think?) a Fram filter because it has good flow ! Here is a quote from him -->
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...829261&fpart=5
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...829261&fpart=5
BOBISTHEOILGUY
Founding Member
Reged: 05/28/02
Posts: 1834
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
Re: Would you use a FRAM filter if they were free? [Re: 06RANGER]
#824513 - 02/13/07 03:29 PM
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why are you using an oil filter to begin with? do you think it keeps the oil clean? or maybe your putting junk in your oil so the filter works for you. I look for flow and as I pointed out, the longer you use a filter the more filtration it has cause the longer it stays on the filter media gets closer together as the hot oil passes through the media.
so do I think there is better values out there? I'm sure there is but I found that the cheapest Fram's out there do just fine. those of you that put garbage in your oil, I'd suggest that you use a high end filter as you probably need it.
Founding Member
Reged: 05/28/02
Posts: 1834
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
Re: Would you use a FRAM filter if they were free? [Re: 06RANGER]
#824513 - 02/13/07 03:29 PM
Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote Quick Reply Quick Reply
why are you using an oil filter to begin with? do you think it keeps the oil clean? or maybe your putting junk in your oil so the filter works for you. I look for flow and as I pointed out, the longer you use a filter the more filtration it has cause the longer it stays on the filter media gets closer together as the hot oil passes through the media.
so do I think there is better values out there? I'm sure there is but I found that the cheapest Fram's out there do just fine. those of you that put garbage in your oil, I'd suggest that you use a high end filter as you probably need it.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Bakersfield
That sounds about right from him.
The only issue I have is our pumps are positive displacement so as long as they're not in relief, they will pump the same volume regardless of filter restriction and viscosity. You might see higher pressure between the pump and filter with a restrictive filter but on the engine side volume and pressure should remain the same. I'm all for a good flowing filter because it will lessen the chance of the filter going into bypass on a cold start. However, after monitoring the pressure right before and right after the filter, the filter is nearly invisible. We're talking 4-6 psi pressure differential on a
cold start at 3,000 rpm and 1-2psi differential when hot.
The only issue I have is our pumps are positive displacement so as long as they're not in relief, they will pump the same volume regardless of filter restriction and viscosity. You might see higher pressure between the pump and filter with a restrictive filter but on the engine side volume and pressure should remain the same. I'm all for a good flowing filter because it will lessen the chance of the filter going into bypass on a cold start. However, after monitoring the pressure right before and right after the filter, the filter is nearly invisible. We're talking 4-6 psi pressure differential on a
cold start at 3,000 rpm and 1-2psi differential when hot.
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 88,888
Likes: 11,846
From: Waffles, BU
I'm a bit surprised RP recommends a 12k mile change interval for normal driving with any major brand synthetic. Big question here.. since Champion Labs makes the filters for RP & M1, I'm sure they're the same just by inspection but has anyone shown a difference otherwise? Also, has anyone ordered from Champion Labs directly.. I'm sure their filters are cheaper than the 'branded' syn poly filters.
Originally Posted by Royal Purple Website
What are the beta ratios?
Average beta rating based on ISO 4548-12 multi-pass test methods:
Vehicles under warranty should follow the vehicle manufacturer's recommended change intervals. Vehicles no longer under warranty and in good condition may extend filter changes to 12,000 miles for vehicles which are driven under normal operating conditions and are using Royal Purple motor oil or other major brand of synthetic motor oil. Vehicles driven in severe conditions should follow the change intervals recommended in their owner's manual; severe conditions are defined as racing or commercial applications, frequent towing or hauling, extremely dusty or dirty conditions, or excessive idling.
Average beta rating based on ISO 4548-12 multi-pass test methods:
- B25 = 100 (which means at 25 or greater micron; media is 99% efficient.)
- B20 = 75 (which means at 20 or greater micron; media is 98.7% efficient. Also considered absolute rating.)
- B10 = 5 (which means at 10 micron or greater; media is 80% efficient.)
Vehicles under warranty should follow the vehicle manufacturer's recommended change intervals. Vehicles no longer under warranty and in good condition may extend filter changes to 12,000 miles for vehicles which are driven under normal operating conditions and are using Royal Purple motor oil or other major brand of synthetic motor oil. Vehicles driven in severe conditions should follow the change intervals recommended in their owner's manual; severe conditions are defined as racing or commercial applications, frequent towing or hauling, extremely dusty or dirty conditions, or excessive idling.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,442
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From: Houston, Texas
CONFIRMED. He does use Fram oil filters (circa 2007).
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...839325&fpart=3
BTW, I use Fram oil filters too. I have done a little research into different filters before choosing Fram.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...839325&fpart=3
BTW, I use Fram oil filters too. I have done a little research into different filters before choosing Fram.
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 88,888
Likes: 11,846
From: Waffles, BU
CONFIRMED. He does use Fram oil filters (circa 2007).
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...839325&fpart=3
BTW, I use Fram oil filters too. I have done a little research into different filters before choosing Fram.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...839325&fpart=3
BTW, I use Fram oil filters too. I have done a little research into different filters before choosing Fram.
water flow?I'll never use Fram.. which filter do you use?
Either toughguard or 2-ply xtended guard are decent filters but it's just so cheaply mfg'd.. I believe only xtended guard is rated for full synthetics as well..
I just rather spend the extra $ on a quality product.. I'm just really picky on oil, gas, filters.. will it make a drastic difference down the line in a modern automobile??.. only time will tell.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,442
Likes: 482
From: Houston, Texas
Right, just water flow. No reason to overly complicate things. Just a quick and dirty test to get an idea of how porous the media is.
I use Fram Regular PH3593A.
I tested many filters. I seen way too much variance in design in the same part number of other filters. At least with Fram, it is consistent. I know what I am getting every time. My main focus was on flow rate thru the media and flow rate of the internal bypass. Only Fram offered me the features that I was interested in. Below are my notes when I was evaluating the different brands.
WINNER ------------------------------
Filter = Fram Regular PH3593A (L)
Flow = Max faucet flow (32) easily
Pro = Very easy to open bypass. High flow thru bypass. No variation among samples tested.
Con = afraid paper disengrate. afraid nylon bypass valve break.
Workaround = while certifying, inspect bypass value to ensure it is nylon not plastic.
Conclusion = Best flow, highest bypass flow, lightest bypass spring, cheap, extremely easy to find, no variation among samples tested.
RELUCTANT -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Filter = Mobil1 (S & L)
Flow = 40
Bypass =
Pro =
Con = Expensive. Scary bypass parts.
Conclusion = Scary bypass parts.
Filter = K&N
Flow = never tested.
Pro =
Con = Expensive ($14). Scary bypass parts.
Conclusion = Scary bypass parts.
Filter = Wix (S)
Flow = 39
Pro = No scary parts. Built high quality. High quality bypass. Easy to purchase bulk.
Con = Media is too small. Bypass looks restrictive and hard to open.
Conclusion =
DISQUALIFED -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Filter = Puralotor Pure1 (S)
Flow = 47, 59 (tested two examples) (seems to be a wide variance with this model)
Pro = easy to find. Bypass has no little parts. Bypass flows alot.
Con = Bypass is hard to open.
Conclusion = Disqualified because bypass needs 25 lbs to begin opening. Needs 60 PSI differantal to fully open. When fully opened, does not flow much. Rather use regular version. Regualr flows more and regular is cheaper.
Filter = Puralotor Regular (S)
Flow = Max faucet flow (32)
Pro = No scary bypass parts. Bypass flows alot.
Con = Bypass is hard to open. Large variation among samples tested.
Conclusion = Disqualified because bypass needs 25 lbs to begin opening. Needs 60 PSI differantal to fully open. When fully opened, does not flow much. Best flow, no scary parts, hard bypass spring.
Filter = SuperTech ST3593A (L)
Flow =
Pro =
Con = No bypass. Very hard to find. Proprietary.
Conclusion = Disqualified because no bypass.
Filter = Puralotor (L) (Pure1 and Regular)
Flow = never tested.
Pro =
Con =
Conclusion = Disqualified because bypass needs 25 lbs to begin opening. Needs 60 PSI differantal to fully open. Disqualified because bypass has scary loose fiber washer where M1 has the glued rubber seal.
Filter = SuperTech ST7317 (S)
Flow =
Pro =
Con = Maximum bypass opening travel is limited.
Conclusion = Disqualified because restrictive bypass.
BYPASS TESTING ------------------------------------
Note that PSID means pressure(PSI) differential(D).
Bypass begins to open at
------------------------
Fram Regular PH3593A (L) = 13 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.528 dia = 0.2190 Area
3 lbs physically / 0.2190 Area = 13 PSID
Puralotor (all models) = 24 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.890 dia = 0.6221 Area
15 lbs physically / 0.6221 Area = 24 PSID
Mobil1 = 25 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.500 dia = 0.1963 Area
5 lbs physically / 0.1963 Area = 25 PSID
(all flow equally at initial opening)
At midpoints
--------------------------
Fram Regular PH3593A (L) = 16 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.528 dia = 0.2190 Area
3.5 lbs physically / 0.2190 Area = 16 PSID
Puralotor (all models) = 32 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.890 dia = 0.6221 Area
20 lbs physically / 0.6221 Area = 32 PSID
(all flow equally at this opening)
Fram Regular PH3593A (L) = 18 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.528 dia = 0.2190 Area
4.0 lbs physically / 0.2190 Area = 18 PSID
Puralotor (all models) = 56 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.890 dia = 0.6221 Area
35 lbs physically / 0.6221 Area = 56 PSID
Mobil1 = 31 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.500 dia = 0.1963 Area
6 lbs physically / 0.1963 Area = 31 PSID
(all flow equally at this opening, but the Puralotor is at MAX opening)
Fram Regular PH3593A (L) = 27 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.528 dia = 0.2190 Area
6.0 lbs physically / 0.2190 Area = 27 PSID
Mobil1 = 51 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.500 dia = 0.1963 Area
10 lbs physically / 0.1963 Area = 51 PSID
(This is MAX opening for PH3593A, but PH3593A flows DOUBLE the volume at max opening than Puralotor at it's max opening)
(Both M1 and PH3593A flow equal volume at their max opening)
I use Fram Regular PH3593A.
I tested many filters. I seen way too much variance in design in the same part number of other filters. At least with Fram, it is consistent. I know what I am getting every time. My main focus was on flow rate thru the media and flow rate of the internal bypass. Only Fram offered me the features that I was interested in. Below are my notes when I was evaluating the different brands.
WINNER ------------------------------
Filter = Fram Regular PH3593A (L)
Flow = Max faucet flow (32) easily
Pro = Very easy to open bypass. High flow thru bypass. No variation among samples tested.
Con = afraid paper disengrate. afraid nylon bypass valve break.
Workaround = while certifying, inspect bypass value to ensure it is nylon not plastic.
Conclusion = Best flow, highest bypass flow, lightest bypass spring, cheap, extremely easy to find, no variation among samples tested.
RELUCTANT -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Filter = Mobil1 (S & L)
Flow = 40
Bypass =
Pro =
Con = Expensive. Scary bypass parts.
Conclusion = Scary bypass parts.
Filter = K&N
Flow = never tested.
Pro =
Con = Expensive ($14). Scary bypass parts.
Conclusion = Scary bypass parts.
Filter = Wix (S)
Flow = 39
Pro = No scary parts. Built high quality. High quality bypass. Easy to purchase bulk.
Con = Media is too small. Bypass looks restrictive and hard to open.
Conclusion =
DISQUALIFED -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Filter = Puralotor Pure1 (S)
Flow = 47, 59 (tested two examples) (seems to be a wide variance with this model)
Pro = easy to find. Bypass has no little parts. Bypass flows alot.
Con = Bypass is hard to open.
Conclusion = Disqualified because bypass needs 25 lbs to begin opening. Needs 60 PSI differantal to fully open. When fully opened, does not flow much. Rather use regular version. Regualr flows more and regular is cheaper.
Filter = Puralotor Regular (S)
Flow = Max faucet flow (32)
Pro = No scary bypass parts. Bypass flows alot.
Con = Bypass is hard to open. Large variation among samples tested.
Conclusion = Disqualified because bypass needs 25 lbs to begin opening. Needs 60 PSI differantal to fully open. When fully opened, does not flow much. Best flow, no scary parts, hard bypass spring.
Filter = SuperTech ST3593A (L)
Flow =
Pro =
Con = No bypass. Very hard to find. Proprietary.
Conclusion = Disqualified because no bypass.
Filter = Puralotor (L) (Pure1 and Regular)
Flow = never tested.
Pro =
Con =
Conclusion = Disqualified because bypass needs 25 lbs to begin opening. Needs 60 PSI differantal to fully open. Disqualified because bypass has scary loose fiber washer where M1 has the glued rubber seal.
Filter = SuperTech ST7317 (S)
Flow =
Pro =
Con = Maximum bypass opening travel is limited.
Conclusion = Disqualified because restrictive bypass.
BYPASS TESTING ------------------------------------
Note that PSID means pressure(PSI) differential(D).
Bypass begins to open at
------------------------
Fram Regular PH3593A (L) = 13 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.528 dia = 0.2190 Area
3 lbs physically / 0.2190 Area = 13 PSID
Puralotor (all models) = 24 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.890 dia = 0.6221 Area
15 lbs physically / 0.6221 Area = 24 PSID
Mobil1 = 25 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.500 dia = 0.1963 Area
5 lbs physically / 0.1963 Area = 25 PSID
(all flow equally at initial opening)
At midpoints
--------------------------
Fram Regular PH3593A (L) = 16 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.528 dia = 0.2190 Area
3.5 lbs physically / 0.2190 Area = 16 PSID
Puralotor (all models) = 32 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.890 dia = 0.6221 Area
20 lbs physically / 0.6221 Area = 32 PSID
(all flow equally at this opening)
Fram Regular PH3593A (L) = 18 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.528 dia = 0.2190 Area
4.0 lbs physically / 0.2190 Area = 18 PSID
Puralotor (all models) = 56 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.890 dia = 0.6221 Area
35 lbs physically / 0.6221 Area = 56 PSID
Mobil1 = 31 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.500 dia = 0.1963 Area
6 lbs physically / 0.1963 Area = 31 PSID
(all flow equally at this opening, but the Puralotor is at MAX opening)
Fram Regular PH3593A (L) = 27 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.528 dia = 0.2190 Area
6.0 lbs physically / 0.2190 Area = 27 PSID
Mobil1 = 51 PSID
Calculations ---> 0.500 dia = 0.1963 Area
10 lbs physically / 0.1963 Area = 51 PSID
(This is MAX opening for PH3593A, but PH3593A flows DOUBLE the volume at max opening than Puralotor at it's max opening)
(Both M1 and PH3593A flow equal volume at their max opening)
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,818
From: Bakersfield
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,818
From: Bakersfield
A VERY informative and interesting thread on HTHS and Redline vs all.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1118409
Looking at this, there isn't much that comes close if you plan on beating on the car.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1118409
Looking at this, there isn't much that comes close if you plan on beating on the car.
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