Thanks, I kinda figured I should have asked first. New thread title is more appropriate to the issue I am currently having!

I've replaced the APP sensor already and tightened the throttle cable that runs into it pretty much as tight as I can. There is still a slight amount of slack into the line. I honestly think I waster $150 on the part because it really didn't make too much of a difference overall, if any.

 

Oh didn't catch that,

 

No worries, I don't know if I have mentioned it in this thread yet. It was one of the items I did kinda early on when I got the car. But I guess I have a back up now.

Now that I think about it, the car has always been a little unresponsive at low speeds since I got it. Similar symptoms to APP sensor failure, which is why I replaced. When that didn't do much, I started looking at the mounts. Now that I believe all of the mounts are good, I am not sure what's causing the issues.

My main leads right now are something being clogged, like the EGR valve, cat converter, or potentially the fuel filter. I think I will just try and remove the EGR and see what the condition of the valve looks like sometime this week.

 

The EGR valve is stupid easy to clean.. I think it's two 12 or 14mm bolts, a harness plug, and it's off. Clean it with some carb cleaner and put it back in. You typically get a P0401 for EGR though but i bet it can still use a cleaning regardless!

 

I would definitely try to rule out those three things before taking it to someone if i were in your shoes too.

 

I may look at taking the manifold off too and cleaning the port or whatever the correct term is. By removing the valve, I guess I will at least get an idea of how that looks. If it looks bad, then hopefully that's the culprit.

However, if I am going to take the manifold off, I feel like I should just do the valve adjustment while I have everything apart, but I don't have the feeler gauges. Then I get into a race against the clock and Murphy's law because I only have 2 days to do it.

Not sure how to test the cats for clogging issues.

For the fuel filter, I guess I can rent a fuel pressure gauge and since I can replicate the issues in Park, see if I get any drop in pressure at the magic RPM.

 

Definitely not the EGR valve or canister.

Both looked pretty damn clean, I thought. A tiny layer of build up, but nothing close to causing any flow issues from what I could see.

I think I'm just gonna take it to the shop I trust, 30 seconds from my apartment. My only concern is then just paying someone else to throw parts at it. Then I have parts AND labor I'm paying for. We'll see...

 

What I've noticed with my shudders is that if I slightly turn the wheel, maybe to about 5 degrees or something small, the vibrations sort of go away when in that RPM band. I wasn't paying attention today, but I think if I made a right turn while in that RPM range then the shudders would be more prominent too, but almost nothing when making a left. I have no idea what that would mean, but maybe something suspension related?

 

Forget if you mentioned doing them, but have you replaced the axles recently? If you're noticing it when you are turning one direction, but not the other, my guess would be either axles or wheel bearings. However, with a bad wheel bearing, I would suspect you may be feeling vibrations at highway speeds as well and a roaring noise from the affected wheel. I'd put the car on stands and see if either of the front wheels have any significant play to try and rule out a few potential things. Mine had a tiny amount of movement front to back and top to bottom, but nothing that I thought would cause any issues.

 

Well the shop I dropped it off at today doesn't want to touch it because it's lowered and doesn't have OEM axles (I have Raxles, which are technically OEM), which I get, but it's still a load of BS. They also tried to tell me my engine mounts weren't OEM, which is also BS because they definitely are. Unless the dealer put the OEM part numbers on the work order I got and put of aftermarket parts, which I highly doubt. The two tranny mounts I replaced are definitely OEM.

They did notice the resonance that I am experiencing, but basically didn't want to touch the car.

Short of selling the car or throwing a even more parts at it, I'm at a total loss right now on what to do.

 

Yeah, I replaced the axles, which is what caused my car to go down this route as well. Also, I've just been lagging on the rear motor mount. When I replaced the tranny mounts (2 oem, 2 non-oem), they *looked* ok, but I definitely felt a difference once they were done. I know you said it was hard to replace the rear motor mount, but maybe just try to replace it if you still have the part if you're able to do it before selling?

 

Could you do me a favor and see if you can replicate the vibration you are feeling at a particular RPM while you have the car in neutral?

What I found out is that I get the same vibration through the car if I hold the RPMS at 1100 while in Park or Neutral. I haven't really tested whether or not turning a certain direction affects the vibration at all. I will pay more attention.

Weird thing I did notice... The other week I left my car running at idle for close to an hour while I was picking up a speaker from the owner of Stereo Integrity (awesome speakers, awesome guy). We demo'd each others car and talked for awhile. When I went to leave, the car drove with no issues for about 30 seconds until I stopped at a light. When I was in the "sweet spots" that cause the car to shake, I finally felt how this car SHOULD drive. So I am wondering what the hell happened here? Why would letting the car idle for a long time and then driving "fix" the issue for a very short period of time?

I inspected my rear mount when trying to replace, but it honestly looked fine. I couldn't see all of it because of the rubber heat shield boot, but it didn't have any damage I could visually see. Re-attaching the vacuum line to the front mount seemed to fix my shaking at idle issue. Can barely feel the car running when stopped at a light now.

I think I may pull the drive belt off today and see what the car does. If that vibration goes away, I guess it then becomes a question of what pulley is bad, but I don't have high hopes. I hope it's not the crank pulley if one of them is bad though.

If I can rule out drive belt pulleys, then I guess I can narrow it down to either a sensor, some sort of blockage, or a vacuum leak. I dunno.

I just wanna solve this!

 

Definitely no vibrations when in neutral, but remember, I'm a 6MT while you're auto. Like I said, even my transmission mounts looked fine, but (and maybe this is just some voodoo here) I figure maybe even if it didn't show visible damage, the age of the rubber may have something to do with it. The other thing is, I couldn't even notice any hairline cracks until I put pressure on the actual mount to go one way or another. I'd think that inspecting while the mount on may not yield the best results, but then again your mounts are for an AT so maybe you'd see some leaking?

On a whim last night I googled up j32a2 shudder and found a thread for what's roughly the same problem, but for a 2003 TL-S: https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-p...-shake-886429/

The MT guy said he replaced the rear motor mount and said that solved his issues, some other people (from recollection) mentioned to change the AT transmission fluid as well as maybe some pressure switches as well. I only skimmed it last night as I've been pretty tired from traveling coast to coast, but maybe that will yield up some new ideas to troubleshoot as well?

 

I agree, a visual inspection of the mount is not the best. Given the condition of my tranny mounts, I was hoping it would be obvious if the rear engine mount was the issue, but it wasn't clear from the visual inspection.

I may try again to get the rear mount replaced. It's just the one bolt that was the issue. You pretty much need an impact to get all the other bolts off, in my opinion. I bought the strongest Kobalt battery powered one they had awhile ago. It's good up to 750 ft/lbs, I believe.

The thread you linked seemed to point towards transmission failure, unfortunately. I still don't believe that's my issue, but you never know.

The shop I took it to didn't charge me anything yesterday. Essentially they said that it could be so many things, that until anything got substantially worse, they didn't want to just throw parts at it. Makes sense.

They did tell me my engine mounts were not OEM. They said they were Anchor's. However, on RockAuto, Anchor doesn't make a vacuum controlled front mount, so I'm not sure. Maybe the side mount is Anchor. However, I'm not sure if the "aftermarket" mounts are my issue. Either way, someone is lying to me because the dealer work order I had printed has the OEM part numbers... I will work on figuring this one out.

 

Well, I'm currently in the midst of doing my rear motor mount atm. You're right, the bolt to connect the mount to the engine is a PITA, because of some of the lines that make it hard to slip both a socket and the breaker bar. I had to use the smallest breaker bar I had, break it, then use a ratchet wrench to take out the bolt the rest of the way.

In the midst of jacking up the engine, I was removing the bolt from the side motor mount, to my surprise I find this (not OEM but Anchor)




Pretty sure that this is also contributing to my shudders. Not sure if it's a bad part as it's non-oem, or a combo of non-oem and also my engine bouncing back and forth when my torque damper broke.

Now to figure out whether I need to connect the rear vacuum as I'm 6MT...

 

As an update (and hopefully to help NoTLoud), I got a little lucky and a local dealership had the OEM side motor mount stocked (although at a pretty hefty price). I replaced that and went for a test drive and either I'm feeling maybe now 1% of shudder, OR it's my mind playing tricks on me because I sort of expected to feel them over the last few weeks. Either way now all of my mounts are new, even if they are a combo of OEM and after market.

I was thinking about how I never noticed the side motor mount go bad again, but then after looking at the pic, it would have been near impossible to just do a physical inspection. The piece breaks after more than halfway down the circumference of the bolt that holds it down to the mount, so it would be impossible to just "lift" it up. Jiggling isn't possible either unless the bolt was loosened for enough slack to jiggle it. If I were you, I'd re-inspect some mounts. The side motor mount is the easiest so maybe that'll help you out too.

As a side note, I kept getting an engine knock CEL. I had to replace the knock sensor about 2 years ago due to a rat chewing through the harness, and I used an aftermarket part. I went down to replace that as well, but I'm not sure if since I used an aftermarket part the wire just didn't click into place, which when coupled with the engine vibrating/rocking back and forth maybe it jimmied up the wire loose enough to throw a code. Either way, happy to report that all of my issues have been fixed. Good luck!

 

Oh wow. Glad you found the answer to your problem!

So I am wondering if something broke the other day on me. I had to brake a little harder than I usually do and it felt like something snapped on the car. I thought it may have been brake related or suspension related, but the car drove fine afterwards. I haven't had anything similar happen since, but I am probably grasping at straws hoping that my side mount broke similar to yours. It was definitely a weird feeling.

I drove the car about 300 miles this weekend. I am starting to notice the shaking/vibration feeling manifesting itself all the way up to 40 to 50 MPH.

One additional symptom I am noticing... If I am accelerating, then let my foot of the pedal, the car seems to bounce itself back and forth a couple times. Not sure what else may cause this except for a bad mount somewhere.

It's kinda weird. Sometimes I am getting the shaking/vibration very bad, but at other times, the car seems fine. The fact that it can be intermittent is strange. I was thinking it may have something to do with temperature, but this morning on the way to work, the engine was still cold and I was experiencing the shaking. On my way home yesterday, I was leaving a rest stop after about 1.5 hours of highway driving and there was no shake while on a slight curve. However, pulling into my apartment complex, while going up a slight hill, the shaking was awful.

I have noticed that my radiator and fan set-up is super loose. I can shake the thing around, especially on the passenger side of the car. I am not sure how it's supposed to sit in the car though. I don't think it's the cause of the issue, but something I thought I'd bring up.

I am also a little paranoid about the issue still potentially being my torque converter. Apparently, the torque converter will still be under load when the car is in Park or Neutral. However, I am not experiencing any shuddering that would seem to be typical of normal TC failure. I know there have been issues with the TC getting loose in these cars though, so that's what I am worried about. Another sign of TC failure is the issue with the RPMS surging. I have been keeping a close eye on mine, and the Tach stays at a constant RPM when using cruise control. I don't really notice any loss of power while accelerating or issues with the car shifting gears. I think I am just paranoid.

 

So replacing both the rear mount and the broken side mount were the solution to your problem. Symptoms were the same as mine. I guess it would be best described as a pulsation while accelerating through the lower gears and lower RPMs?

I may try and give the rear mount another go this weekend and more closely inspect the side mount. How the hell did you get a socket on that bolt? I couldn't get my 3/8's socket in there, let alone the ratchet. I may pick up one of those pivoting, ratcheting wrenches. I have a 12mm I got for the battery tray, but they are like $20 each from Lowe's. A 10mm and 14mm would certainly be handy for this car though. I just couldn't get the damn bolt to budge and I certainly did not want to strip it because then I would just be screwed, so I gave up.


I started noticing my issue when I lowered the car AND have the LCA compliance bushings replaced. I believe it can't just be coincidence that the issue popped up after that. I highly doubt my TC started to suddenly go out afterwards, but ya never know.

I'm due for changing my oil and have put close to 10k on my tranny fluid, so I plan on doing at least a 1x3 drain and refill. I wanna see how the fluid looks and see how many shavings are on the drain bolt. I'm a little nervous that I am seeing some of the junk on my dipstick. The fluid was still pretty pink and didn't have any smell that I considered smelling "burnt," but I am not 100% sure what burnt transmission fluid smells like.

 

To be honest, I don't think I needed to replace the rear motor mount at all. It looked perfectly solid after removing, and I noticed no cracks (although again, mine is 6MT so it's a solid mount). It was pretty rough to remove the bolt. I had to use a non-deep socket with a 3/8" 12" breaker bar (I'll try to take a pic when I get home), and even then I only used it to break the bolt loose before using one of these Sears.com(mine was non-flex but you get the idea) to get the bolt loose enough to finally remove completely by hand. There's definitely not enough space to torque it down correctly with a torque wrench, so I just tried to make it as tight as I could. I think your best bet if you have it is to put a regular wrench on it and then use a cheater bar on top of the wrench to try and break it. The 12" breaker bar almost made me pull a muscle in my shoulder. If I had a pipe big enough to fit the other side of the wrench and essentially make it 18", I think it would have made that portion of the install much easier.

It's important to note that a visual inspection of my side motor mount wouldn't have let me find the issue with the mount. As I mentioned before, the bracket broke at a place underneath the mounting hole, so the broken piece was still being held, or rather locked into place. I had to loosen the bolt that connects the mount to the engine bracket to be able to even notice anything broken.

Yeah, definitely a pulsation while accelerating in lower gears, but mostly just 2nd gear between 1000-2000 rpm. Just like you, after driving for a while I would also maybe notice albeit minor vibrations in higher gears as well, but definitely not as much vibration in 2nd. My issues started maybe like 1-2 weeks after I got the axles and LCA bushings replaced. Maybe it's just a coincidence that the torque damper finally went out around the same time, or as a guess the replacement of some parts resulted in better power transfer, and because of some other broken parts the other old parts couldn't really handle it.

 

I will be doing a deeper dive this weekend into the mounts. Hopefully get that rear mount out. If the mounts are not my issue, then I may just accept the car driving like shit and wait until something just fails entirely.

The problem is that this could be so many things, so I guess I really just gotta get in there and start eliminating potential causes of issues.

 

I posted this in another thread where someone is having a similar issue. Including this information for anyone who may use this thread for future issues.

So, the secondary shaft, as explained to me, is used when the car is moving from low speeds. It works like those old school bike brakes, where it locks in one direction and will spin freely in the other. Wear to this can cause some issues where the car won't engage in lower gears. Transmission builder said it was kinda a crap shoot with these. Said he'd have cars with 160k+ miles where these looked fine and other where they would be in rough shape.

He did a few tests on the road while we were stopped to test the front and rear engine mounts. Everything checked out. He said he suspected it could be the side mount, so I will definitely be inspecting that this weekend when I have some time.

Could be back to square one if the side mount is good, but I'll see.

 

This weekend I removed the top bolt that goes into the metal engine bracket piece of the side mount. With the two bottom bolts that go into the body of the car, I could easily move the mount back and forth and side to side.

Is the side mount supposed to be easy to move around like that?

Looking at the part on Amazon, it looks like an OEM part and has the right markings. I'm not sure why the shop I took it to think the mounts aren't OEM. Mine has a gold paint mark on the metal tab on the part where the bolt goes through. Same arrow indicator on the bottom, flat metal piece.

My mount looks exactly like this:

I will try and get a video up when I get home to demonstrate what I am talking about. I did not remove the heat shield boot out of laziness and the fact I didn't want to remove the part if it was indeed broken because I didn't have a replacement on hand.

 

No, the mount itself (bigger circular thing) is not supposed to be able to move around easily. If you're talking about the metal piece that sticks up outside of the heat shield boot, yes, that can move. However, you should lift up the boot at least to see if the rubber inside the mount has deteriorated or not. I think it'll be easier to see what you're talking about once your video is up. I swear I've been checking AZ every morning just to see if you've been able to solve this issue yet

 

I have been hoping you figure it out as well. I am very curious as to what is left causing this. Surprised you haven't thrown in the towel yet!

 

Ah, if you go up a few posts, you'll see I figured it was my side motor mount snapping where the metal links up to the engine bracket!

 

I saw that, but this was I am waiting, along with you, to see if NoTLoud will figure his car out.

 

Mine is shuddering at highway speeds, and have had RoadForce balancing, Motor mounts right, Front only. They were both broke where the shaft fell off and fluid would pour out if leaned So there must have been a lot of movement.! I am thinking the Upper Transmission mount for sure. Does the Rear motor mount go bad very often? Especially since it is supposedly harder to do!

 

Mine is shuddering at highway speeds-07 Type S Auto, and have had RoadForce balancing, Motor mounts right, Front only. They were both broke where the shaft fell off and fluid would pour out if leaned So there must have been a lot of movement.! I am thinking the Upper Transmission mount for sure. Does the Rear motor mount go bad very often? Especially since it is supposedly harder to do!

 

I was moving it around from the metal piece. The entire mount would shift around like it was on a pivot point, which makes sense since the bottom bolt were still in.

Unfortunately, I wasn't home until I went to sleep last night and I will be leaving this afternoon for a mini vacation. I will see about trying to get the video up.

Thanks Breezy! I really hope I can get this figured out. At this point, now that I know it's not the transmission, I am a little relieved, but it's still something that bothers me quite a bit when driving.

So your front and side engine mounts have been replaced? I have heard the rear engine mounts don't break as often as the front and side, but I would definitely still check it out.

I would check your transmission mounts. My top and bottom, rear mounts were both bad, but I wasn't getting shaking at highway speeds, more just jerkiness at low speeds while shifting.

 

There's supposed to be some play, but hard to describe exactly how much in text. It's best to just lift up the rubber shield, move the metal piece and see if there are any tears when the metal piece is moving one way or another.

 

Hey, I just thought I would upload some examples of what mounts look like when they go bad.

The two most common failures for our engine mounts:
1. They tear and leak black fluid, which is usually pretty visibly obvious. This can cause hesitation, "sloppy" shifts (A/T), clunking sounds, vibration/noise.
2. They collapse internally and no longer provide enough clearance, which causes the engine bracket to rest on the vehicle frame - this can cause a lot of noise and vibration transfer throughout the vehicle, so it may be heard/felt but may not be visibly noticeable when looking at the mount.

I don't have any pictures of broken upper or lower transmission mounts, but they are not fluid-filled. So I just drew some happy little red lines through where they usually break lol.


Example of broken passenger side engine mount


Example of broken front or rear engine mount


Example of collapsed front or rear engine mount. Notice the height difference even though it hasn't fully cracked through or started leaking


The upper (top) and lower (bottom) transmission mounts. Red lines indicate where they usually break.

 

Thought of a couple things to add relating to the engine mounts. You can test mounts by doing a "stall test" (you'll need a helper). Set the parking brake and put the car in D. With your foot firmly on the BRAKE, rev the engine up a little (only for 1-2 seconds, then rest for a couple seconds, then repeat if necessary). Try it lightly first to make sure the car doesn't take off lol. Watch for excessive engine movement (some movement is normal), and also look at the front and the side engine mounts for damage, etc. Afterwards, you can do the same procedure in reverse to test the rear engine mount.

You can also check the height of the side engine mount, it may just need a quick adjustment if it's sitting too low (which would allow the bracket to rest on the mount frame). To adjust the height:
Loosen the center bolt, then remove the two on the aluminum bracket attached to the engine. Slide the bracket up and tighten the center bolt. Now reinstall the two bolts to attach the bracket to the engine. Be careful not to over-tighten, these bolts can strip out the threads on the water pump cover pretty easy.

Are you still dealing with vibration at idle? I noticed something in the shop manual that you could check out - the mount control solenoid.

If you had a bad solenoid or a bad vacuum line going to it, it can cause vibration at idle. Troubleshooting steps look pretty easy. Here are the pages from the manual:


Mount control solenoid location


Mount Control Solenoid Troubleshooting


Mount Control Solenoid Troubleshooting


Mount Control Solenoid Troubleshooting

 

Does orientation matter? I'm noticing that when the heat shield is off, there's sort of a "lip" on one half of the opening ring. Not sure if that would matter or not?

 

Thanks for the very helpful post UA7X! My transmission mounts were torn right on your red lines.

As promised like 2 weeks ago now, here's the video of me moving the mount around:
And I sincerely apologize for the verticle video. Mods, if you want to ban me, I wouldn't even blame you.

Let me know if you aren't able to view it.

 

Ehhh it's still kinda hard to tell. It can move but it's hard to tell how much force/effort you put in. If you're already at that stage, why not just unbolt the two bolts holding down the bracket and then lift up heat shield? Also, I found the arrow that points the orientation...I think it would matter because if the mount is pointed "backwards", then there is no metal lip to support the bracket (to a degree), which in turn I think would eventually rip the mount apart

 

@jimmyfu - Yep the mount is directional, arrow should point forwards, although I'm not sure you can actually install the mount backwards because of how the two bottom bolts line up vs the angle of the top center bolt.

@NoTLoud - As jimmyfu said, it's hard to tell for sure from the video but it looks like a normal amount of movement to me, they are generally pretty flexible (and a lot more so than the front/rear mounts). Best way to see it's condition is to lift/fold up that rubber cover and look inside. If it's full of fluid then it's toast. See if you can get a picture of the inside of the mount under that cover, you should be able to do it without taking anything apart.

 

I wasn't using too much force to move the mount back and forth. I kinda figured the video wouldn't provide too much insight into the issue. Just wasn't sure if it should be solid or have some movement.

I may look at taking the heat shield boot off this weekend.

Interestingly, the shop I took my car to was telling me the mounts were not OEM and did not have the fluid in them. I am not sure how they determined that, however. From what I have seen, all my mounts have what look to be the correct OEM markings on them.

Another idea: Could my LCA Compliance Bushings be installed incorrectly? I am just trying to get a root cause analysis on this. I didn't notice any issues until I had them replaced. The only issue is that I also lowered that car at the same time. It also would not explain the why this issue also occurs when I am in Park or Neutral and take the car up to 1100 RPM.

 

I think when I had an anchor side mount, I couldn't find a front facing arrow, or the words "SEP" on the heat shield. I don't think the compliance bushings being installed incorrectly would cause this per se, but they'll just rip up a lot faster if it's not put in the right direction. I have a theory that this may have happened after those were installed because it stabilized the suspension resulting in better transfer of power, which if something was already on it's way out, became broken because of the better power transfer.

 

I agree with the power transfer thing. Someone mentioned it in the first page of the thread. I just can't figure out what.

The shaking is only getting worse, it seems. Today it was awful on my way home.

The front and side mounts both have the SEP on the heat covers. The side mount has the arrow marking on it. I am not sure why the shop was telling me they aren't OEM. I would just buy a new side mount, but I don't want to throw away the $80. Especially considering I have a brand new rear mount just sitting in my room right now. I think the OEM front mount is close to $150.

I am wondering if there is something loose on the sub-frame. I think there are bushings that go between it and the frame of the car.

It seems like the car is kinda shimmy-ing side to side. It's really hard to tell though. At this point, I think I am just grasping at straws hoping something will just leap out at me.

I probably need to check for vacuum leaks using the copies UA7X posted.

 

Those rubber dust boots on the mounts are removable and I'm sure a lot of aftermarket mounts don't include them, so it's possible you have OEM mount dust boots installed on aftermarket mounts.

The compliance bushings could be installed incorrectly if they were replaced exclusively (as opposed to replacing the entire LCA, which is sometimes the case). The bushings are definitely directional and the new ones could have been pressed in at the wrong angle. I don't know for sure what symptoms you would have if that were the case, but I would think increased wear, stiffness and/or vibration while cruising, and maybe more front-end "dive" when braking. I can't see how it would have any effect at idle though.