Brake issue: Need advice
02-08-2009, 10:03 PM
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abacon
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Brake issue: Need advice
So I have been having some brake vibration issues recently and wanted to get some advice from AZINE members. First a brief history of my brakes on my 2007 TL Type-S.
I bought my car in August of 2007. The brakes had rust ridges in them from sitting on the lot. To get rid of the vibrations that were caused, they put new rotors, calipers, and tires on. I had like 300 miles on the car at this point. I am in the military and live on a base. I generally drive the car on weekends and the car sits in the parking lot during the week. I take really good care of the car and cover it basically whenever I am not using it. The only downside is I can't garage it because I live on base. Anyways, I was required to leave my car for just over 3 months from December 2007 to March 2008 and again from May 2008 to August 2008. The brake vibrations appeared again after the Dec-Mar sitting period and I took the car to the dealer in August and they turned the rotors and fixed the vibrations. My car only had under 3000 miles at this point. I drove the car from August to December 08 without any noticeable problems and had to leave my car for 3 weeks at the end of December. For the past 5 weeks the brake vibrations are back and today they spiked up.
The vibrations are really noticable when slowly down on an off-ramp from highway speeds. With moderate braking the car will shudder and I can notice it in the steering wheel. This tells me it is most likely the brakes, because that is the only time I feel the shudder. I have noticed that the brake vibrations appear after the car has had to sit for a while, but in my opinion I shouldn't have to get the brakes fixed everytime I am not able to use the car for 3 weeks or so. I thought the vibrations might disappear after using the car for a month, but it didn't. My car only has 4300 miles now.
I am ready to take the car back to the dealer for the third time to get warranty work done on the brakes. I am hoping I do not get any issues from the service reps. I have a feeling they may try to tell me I abused my car, which is not true at all, and wont fix it. So here are my questions for all of you. I am pretty sure that this is not a normal happening, especially on a high quality car like an Acura. Has anyone else experienced this? Assuming I can get warranty work to fix it, is there something I can do to prevent it in the future, or should I not have a problem in the future? Eventually I think I will switch to aftermarket brakes but right now I don't have a lot of money and warranty work is free. Also, in the beginning of march I will have to leave my car for about 15 days. Should I wait to get the warranty work done till after or just have it done now. My only concern is that the brake problem might resurface during this time. Finally, assuming the dealership helps me fix the problem, the rotors have already been turned once, if they try to turn them again should I tell them no? How many times can you turn a rotor before it is not good to use anymore?
So, I am sorry this is so long but I would really appreciate any advice or experience from any AZINE members. Thank you for your help.
I bought my car in August of 2007. The brakes had rust ridges in them from sitting on the lot. To get rid of the vibrations that were caused, they put new rotors, calipers, and tires on. I had like 300 miles on the car at this point. I am in the military and live on a base. I generally drive the car on weekends and the car sits in the parking lot during the week. I take really good care of the car and cover it basically whenever I am not using it. The only downside is I can't garage it because I live on base. Anyways, I was required to leave my car for just over 3 months from December 2007 to March 2008 and again from May 2008 to August 2008. The brake vibrations appeared again after the Dec-Mar sitting period and I took the car to the dealer in August and they turned the rotors and fixed the vibrations. My car only had under 3000 miles at this point. I drove the car from August to December 08 without any noticeable problems and had to leave my car for 3 weeks at the end of December. For the past 5 weeks the brake vibrations are back and today they spiked up.
The vibrations are really noticable when slowly down on an off-ramp from highway speeds. With moderate braking the car will shudder and I can notice it in the steering wheel. This tells me it is most likely the brakes, because that is the only time I feel the shudder. I have noticed that the brake vibrations appear after the car has had to sit for a while, but in my opinion I shouldn't have to get the brakes fixed everytime I am not able to use the car for 3 weeks or so. I thought the vibrations might disappear after using the car for a month, but it didn't. My car only has 4300 miles now.
I am ready to take the car back to the dealer for the third time to get warranty work done on the brakes. I am hoping I do not get any issues from the service reps. I have a feeling they may try to tell me I abused my car, which is not true at all, and wont fix it. So here are my questions for all of you. I am pretty sure that this is not a normal happening, especially on a high quality car like an Acura. Has anyone else experienced this? Assuming I can get warranty work to fix it, is there something I can do to prevent it in the future, or should I not have a problem in the future? Eventually I think I will switch to aftermarket brakes but right now I don't have a lot of money and warranty work is free. Also, in the beginning of march I will have to leave my car for about 15 days. Should I wait to get the warranty work done till after or just have it done now. My only concern is that the brake problem might resurface during this time. Finally, assuming the dealership helps me fix the problem, the rotors have already been turned once, if they try to turn them again should I tell them no? How many times can you turn a rotor before it is not good to use anymore?
So, I am sorry this is so long but I would really appreciate any advice or experience from any AZINE members. Thank you for your help.
02-08-2009, 11:05 PM
#4
Senior Moderator
go to acura and tell them its happening again. Tell them to check the brakes to see that none of the calipers are malfunctioning and/or are stuck. As well have them check the pads to see if they are not wearing straight or if they are glazed, etc. It could be the pads since it's alway good to replace pads and rotors together to make sure you have fresh materials.
02-09-2009, 06:04 AM
#5
abacon
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go to acura and tell them its happening again. Tell them to check the brakes to see that none of the calipers are malfunctioning and/or are stuck. As well have them check the pads to see if they are not wearing straight or if they are glazed, etc. It could be the pads since it's alway good to replace pads and rotors together to make sure you have fresh materials.
02-09-2009, 09:23 AM
#6
One of 2 issues:
1...Disk brake warp, there are things you can do to eliminate it.
2...Tires will flat spot when the car sits, some brand tires are worse than others.
I have yokahama tires on my TL, and they do it bad for the first 10 miles or so, feels like a paint shaker, but only after the car sits for a long time, and it goes away after a bit of driving (for the most part).
As far as disk brakes warping, which usualy takes quite a few miles to happen, I eliminated the problem on various cars I have had by doing the following:
With new rotors (once rotors warp, they stay warped), I grease the rotor to hub, and wheel to rotor contact points, the back of the brake pads, and the caliper to pad contact points with high temp disk brake grease, then do up the lug nuts in a do one skip one pattern to 80 FT pounds till all are tight.
I NEVER had warped rotors or brake noise on any car after I do this.
The grease prevents rust, aids in heat transfer, and the lug nuts prevent deforming warpage.
Shops will often do up the lug nuts to 200 foot pounds, and there is no need for that.
I doubt you will get any shop to bother to do any of these steps unless you stand there and demand they do it, and watch.
I do my own work, so its no problem for me.
The wife and I have had various cars that had the problem, and were known for having the problem, one car my wife had was back to the dealers 3 times for warpage, and after the warentee was up, I did the brakes and it never happened again.
(if it was my car, I would have fixed it myself BEFORE the original rotors warped)
Brett
1...Disk brake warp, there are things you can do to eliminate it.
2...Tires will flat spot when the car sits, some brand tires are worse than others.
I have yokahama tires on my TL, and they do it bad for the first 10 miles or so, feels like a paint shaker, but only after the car sits for a long time, and it goes away after a bit of driving (for the most part).
As far as disk brakes warping, which usualy takes quite a few miles to happen, I eliminated the problem on various cars I have had by doing the following:
With new rotors (once rotors warp, they stay warped), I grease the rotor to hub, and wheel to rotor contact points, the back of the brake pads, and the caliper to pad contact points with high temp disk brake grease, then do up the lug nuts in a do one skip one pattern to 80 FT pounds till all are tight.
I NEVER had warped rotors or brake noise on any car after I do this.
The grease prevents rust, aids in heat transfer, and the lug nuts prevent deforming warpage.
Shops will often do up the lug nuts to 200 foot pounds, and there is no need for that.
I doubt you will get any shop to bother to do any of these steps unless you stand there and demand they do it, and watch.
I do my own work, so its no problem for me.
The wife and I have had various cars that had the problem, and were known for having the problem, one car my wife had was back to the dealers 3 times for warpage, and after the warentee was up, I did the brakes and it never happened again.
(if it was my car, I would have fixed it myself BEFORE the original rotors warped)
Brett
02-09-2009, 10:50 AM
#7
abacon
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One of 2 issues:
1...Disk brake warp, there are things you can do to eliminate it.
2...Tires will flat spot when the car sits, some brand tires are worse than others.
I have yokahama tires on my TL, and they do it bad for the first 10 miles or so, feels like a paint shaker, but only after the car sits for a long time, and it goes away after a bit of driving (for the most part).
As far as disk brakes warping, which usualy takes quite a few miles to happen, I eliminated the problem on various cars I have had by doing the following:
With new rotors (once rotors warp, they stay warped), I grease the rotor to hub, and wheel to rotor contact points, the back of the brake pads, and the caliper to pad contact points with high temp disk brake grease, then do up the lug nuts in a do one skip one pattern to 80 FT pounds till all are tight.
I NEVER had warped rotors or brake noise on any car after I do this.
The grease prevents rust, aids in heat transfer, and the lug nuts prevent deforming warpage.
Shops will often do up the lug nuts to 200 foot pounds, and there is no need for that.
I doubt you will get any shop to bother to do any of these steps unless you stand there and demand they do it, and watch.
I do my own work, so its no problem for me.
The wife and I have had various cars that had the problem, and were known for having the problem, one car my wife had was back to the dealers 3 times for warpage, and after the warentee was up, I did the brakes and it never happened again.
(if it was my car, I would have fixed it myself BEFORE the original rotors warped)
Brett
1...Disk brake warp, there are things you can do to eliminate it.
2...Tires will flat spot when the car sits, some brand tires are worse than others.
I have yokahama tires on my TL, and they do it bad for the first 10 miles or so, feels like a paint shaker, but only after the car sits for a long time, and it goes away after a bit of driving (for the most part).
As far as disk brakes warping, which usualy takes quite a few miles to happen, I eliminated the problem on various cars I have had by doing the following:
With new rotors (once rotors warp, they stay warped), I grease the rotor to hub, and wheel to rotor contact points, the back of the brake pads, and the caliper to pad contact points with high temp disk brake grease, then do up the lug nuts in a do one skip one pattern to 80 FT pounds till all are tight.
I NEVER had warped rotors or brake noise on any car after I do this.
The grease prevents rust, aids in heat transfer, and the lug nuts prevent deforming warpage.
Shops will often do up the lug nuts to 200 foot pounds, and there is no need for that.
I doubt you will get any shop to bother to do any of these steps unless you stand there and demand they do it, and watch.
I do my own work, so its no problem for me.
The wife and I have had various cars that had the problem, and were known for having the problem, one car my wife had was back to the dealers 3 times for warpage, and after the warentee was up, I did the brakes and it never happened again.
(if it was my car, I would have fixed it myself BEFORE the original rotors warped)
Brett
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02-09-2009, 01:28 PM
#8
Any auto parts store will sell high temp disk brake grease.
From my personal experance doing it this way on my Jaguar (4000 lb car),
the taurus the wife had, the passat, the acura, and the rav 4, I never had problems with the brakes, never had noise or rotor warpage.
I never worried about the grease getting on the rotors much, never seemed to be an issue, but if you worry about it, they make disk cleaning spray to wash off the rotors after the job is done.
I tend to be very liberal with the grease, I put a lot on the BACK of the brake pads and inside the caliper piston, it prevents rust, and eliminates brake noise, much better than the sticky stuff they sell, which only worked for a week and made a huge sticky mess of everything when I tried it long ago.
I am very fussy about my cars, I strongly dislike the slightest thing wrong with them, so always do the brakes up this way, and buy only known good quality brake pads.
Brett
From my personal experance doing it this way on my Jaguar (4000 lb car),
the taurus the wife had, the passat, the acura, and the rav 4, I never had problems with the brakes, never had noise or rotor warpage.
I never worried about the grease getting on the rotors much, never seemed to be an issue, but if you worry about it, they make disk cleaning spray to wash off the rotors after the job is done.
I tend to be very liberal with the grease, I put a lot on the BACK of the brake pads and inside the caliper piston, it prevents rust, and eliminates brake noise, much better than the sticky stuff they sell, which only worked for a week and made a huge sticky mess of everything when I tried it long ago.
I am very fussy about my cars, I strongly dislike the slightest thing wrong with them, so always do the brakes up this way, and buy only known good quality brake pads.
Brett
02-09-2009, 01:44 PM
#9
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I think everyone's thoughts on rotor warping are correct. My guess is that when you first left your car for the extended period of time, spot rust formed on the surface of the rotor, which can wear you pads quickly and create added friction to the rotor which may start the warping process or elevate the damage.
When the dealer turned your rotors, the rotor had less mass to dissipate the heat and therefore heat up faster and warp easier. Think shoulder socket, pop it out once, it's more prone to pop out again. I suggest getting new rotors. Either let the dealer install new OE rotors or put on a higher quality / better performance rotor. You should also use high quality ceramic pads for the OE rotor.
When the dealer turned your rotors, the rotor had less mass to dissipate the heat and therefore heat up faster and warp easier. Think shoulder socket, pop it out once, it's more prone to pop out again. I suggest getting new rotors. Either let the dealer install new OE rotors or put on a higher quality / better performance rotor. You should also use high quality ceramic pads for the OE rotor.
02-17-2009, 05:14 PM
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abacon
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So just a quick follow up. The dealer replaced all the rotors and bled the brake system. They said the pads were fine. They could not point to an underlying problem causing the brakes to go bad. Anyways, the car drives a lot better now. Thanks for all your input.
Any thoughts on painting the OEM rotors with the high temperature caliper paint? Good/Bad/Indifferent?
Any thoughts on painting the OEM rotors with the high temperature caliper paint? Good/Bad/Indifferent?
02-17-2009, 05:57 PM
#11
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I have had a bunch of these cars (mine included) that the pads actually create a corrosion spot where moisture gets trapped between the rotor and the pads. Since the Brembos are super metallic it happens even faster. So then you end up with a spot on the rotor that grabs differently every time it passes the pads under braking. Multipy this by 2 since its each side. Add 50 MPH and some braking force and viola... brake vibration. My advice is to have a friend move the car once a week or two while you are away.
02-17-2009, 06:23 PM
#12
So just a quick follow up. The dealer replaced all the rotors and bled the brake system. They said the pads were fine. They could not point to an underlying problem causing the brakes to go bad. Anyways, the car drives a lot better now. Thanks for all your input.
Any thoughts on painting the OEM rotors with the high temperature caliper paint? Good/Bad/Indifferent?
Any thoughts on painting the OEM rotors with the high temperature caliper paint? Good/Bad/Indifferent?
02-17-2009, 09:41 PM
#13
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02-18-2009, 12:59 PM
#14
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And by the way...The dealer may have fixed my brakes but they scratched my car and although they "buffed it" I am still working with scratch remover to get it out of my car. Its annoying especially when I have gone for a while without any noticable scratches on the car.
Last edited by abacon09; 02-18-2009 at 01:02 PM.
02-18-2009, 07:49 PM
#15
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glad to hear they fixed your problem, but now if it happens again after sitting for a while, what are you going to do....
also why after like the 3rd time didnt you ask them to put you in another TL of the same value, sooner or later they're not going to want to repair it and they're going to try and charge you out of pocket, and you will really be out of pocket dealin with acura service
also why after like the 3rd time didnt you ask them to put you in another TL of the same value, sooner or later they're not going to want to repair it and they're going to try and charge you out of pocket, and you will really be out of pocket dealin with acura service
02-18-2009, 09:25 PM
#16
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
glad to hear they fixed your problem, but now if it happens again after sitting for a while, what are you going to do....
also why after like the 3rd time didnt you ask them to put you in another TL of the same value, sooner or later they're not going to want to repair it and they're going to try and charge you out of pocket, and you will really be out of pocket dealin with acura service
also why after like the 3rd time didnt you ask them to put you in another TL of the same value, sooner or later they're not going to want to repair it and they're going to try and charge you out of pocket, and you will really be out of pocket dealin with acura service
abacon, I just read about the paint scuffs.. that is unreasonable.. take it back and complain (politely & professinaly) to the Service Mgr.. their body shop that they work with should repair it to new. In my experience, they treat members of the armed service with a lot of regard. I went to my local service center.. and although they have tried gouging me on everything from unnecessary repairs to high margin parts.. there was a young marine with a ABP 3G TL who had a bad tank of gas.. his cats were completely blown and his piston heads were damaged from detonation... he wasn't in the warrantied period but they were talking about dropping a new engine goodwill for him because they appreciated his service and felt for his situation. Idk what happened but I'm sure they want to do right by you.
02-18-2009, 09:54 PM
#17
abacon
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glad to hear they fixed your problem, but now if it happens again after sitting for a while, what are you going to do....
also why after like the 3rd time didnt you ask them to put you in another TL of the same value, sooner or later they're not going to want to repair it and they're going to try and charge you out of pocket, and you will really be out of pocket dealin with acura service
also why after like the 3rd time didnt you ask them to put you in another TL of the same value, sooner or later they're not going to want to repair it and they're going to try and charge you out of pocket, and you will really be out of pocket dealin with acura service
Racinghart already suggested what the OP should do. Loaners are first come first serve.. Brakes are a regular maintenance item, anything covered by the service shop is a plus.
abacon, I just read about the paint scuffs.. that is unreasonable.. take it back and complain (politely & professinaly) to the Service Mgr.. their body shop that they work with should repair it to new. In my experience, they treat members of the armed service with a lot of regard. I went to my local service center.. and although they have tried gouging me on everything from unnecessary repairs to high margin parts.. there was a young marine with a ABP 3G TL who had a bad tank of gas.. his cats were completely blown and his piston heads were damaged from detonation... he wasn't in the warrantied period but they were talking about dropping a new engine goodwill for him because they appreciated his service and felt for his situation. Idk what happened but I'm sure they want to do right by you.
abacon, I just read about the paint scuffs.. that is unreasonable.. take it back and complain (politely & professinaly) to the Service Mgr.. their body shop that they work with should repair it to new. In my experience, they treat members of the armed service with a lot of regard. I went to my local service center.. and although they have tried gouging me on everything from unnecessary repairs to high margin parts.. there was a young marine with a ABP 3G TL who had a bad tank of gas.. his cats were completely blown and his piston heads were damaged from detonation... he wasn't in the warrantied period but they were talking about dropping a new engine goodwill for him because they appreciated his service and felt for his situation. Idk what happened but I'm sure they want to do right by you.
02-19-2009, 12:11 AM
#18
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
[professionally] - I hate catching misspelled words... I know how to spell, I just don't know how to type.. and if you believe that, you and I should talk about some property I own in Las Vegas.. 
but back on topic.. I hope you're able to resolve it. I think they're taking good care of you if they're not trying to charge you.. it's a real bummer though. I hope your OCS / OTS goes well
.. Theres at least one other officer on here.. I'm pretty sure AZ doesn't count as fraternization 
but back on topic.. I hope you're able to resolve it. I think they're taking good care of you if they're not trying to charge you.. it's a real bummer though. I hope your OCS / OTS goes well
.. Theres at least one other officer on here.. I'm pretty sure AZ doesn't count as fraternization
07-28-2009, 02:50 PM
#19
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Vibrate when braking at around 70 mph
I just got 05 TL and it always vibrake when I bkrake at around 60-80 mph. I found out one of lug nut on front passenger site missing. It also missing one of inner shim at the same wheel. Is that the reason for vibration. which contribute more missing shim or lug nut?
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