TBone2004

Got no response at all when I first posted - maybe lost in the thread I used...


After my epoxy design failed to last more than two weeks and the dealer epoxy failed to last more than 2 minutes I went out on a limb with a new approach - and it is working great so far. Read on if you are having epoxy troubles....

Attached are pics of what I did to fix my headliner. Magnets. Yep, you read it right - M-A-G-N-E-T-S!! The first pic shows the metal snips I bought and a piece of metal stripping. I cut out three pieces the same exact size as the velcro so I could slip the metal into the clip-like holders on the headliner side. Could not find the exact thickness of metal so I went for a thinner one and shoved some thin cardboard under it (like a matchbook thickness) I had some thicker metal, but it was stressing the clips too much I was afraid they would snap, so I went thinner.

Scraped off all the failed glue attempts - both my own and the dealer's. Went to a website called www.kjmagnetics.com where they sell all kinds of super powerful magnets - all shapes and sizes. Guys, these things will pinch your fingers - unbelivable strength. The magnets in the picture were not actually used - while they would not let go of the metal strip above, they were 3/8 thick and you need to use 1/4 " thick magnet - otherwise you give yourself a permanant gap of about an 1/8" and that is what we are trying to avoid. So I used 1/2 diameter x 1/4 thick disc magnets. Three of #D84B Grade N45 Disc, 1/2 x 1/4".

Stuck one to each of my 3 square metal plates I cut from the metal and then pushed them up to the piece of flexible steel that the old velcros were glued to. Bingo! Headliner is up there and is not coming down. If it does come down - like I said the 3/8" magnets were 3/4 " x 3/8" too thick, I will go and order some 3/4" x 1/4" and use them, but I think these I am using are good enough. Check out the
pics.

Snips bought at Home Depot and some metal stripping too :



If they had only used these wonderful clips on the top side of this we would not be having this conversation! Clips holding metal where it used to hold velcro.




Gap before:


Magnet stuck to metal (not the magnet actually used.) More strength than needed, but just 1/8 inch too thick. Did this on all three clips.




After: No gap! Holding strong.

Ron A

What kind of response were you looking for?

We appreciate the info, and so far it looks like a good method, but let's not beat this into the ground. This is the third submission in as many days. There is no practical way to keep this at the top of the forum, especially considering the length of the thread and the data space required for the pictures.

Maybe rets can put this in the 3G Garage? Putting the link there will not take up any additional space but will still provide a reference.

TBone2004

Nothing I guess Ron. People were practically having orgasms over the glue fix, I thought this was an equally effective fix - IMO currently working better. Just surprised that for all the crying on this forum about headliners falling (and the sky too for some people) even I complained of the headliner issue, that there were no praises or critism to be had...or even these reputation points (whatever they are).

I was just trying to help any of the many complainers out there with an alternative to the glue as some had complained the glue was not holding. So much forum space is wasted on "What is the hole in my bumper for" that I figured this would have been of more interest to some.

Please feel free to delete all 3 posts. I have my fix so I am happy.

Peace.

Lore

Your epoxy fix failed? That's very interesting. What sort of epoxy did you use, and did it fail suddenly or did it fail gradually over time?

TBone2004

First time I did it - when I first suggested it as a fix to the Forum, it held for 2 weeks - no problems, then it came apart at the white tape (because I was afraid to take off the white sticky tape before gluing for fear of making the liner fit too tight, so I put the glue on the white tape and that is what failed) The white tape ripped apart. The glue never gave way - it is the best stuff I have ever used - your typical epoxy - 2 tubes, push down on plunger, get equal amounts and mix. I had dealer fix the next time as they said they were using epoxy now as the fix. But that failed same day I suspect because they attached the liner without letting it cure.

I thought no problem I will redo using my glue, but just gluing the black velcro piece, not the white tape and for some reason it failed a day or two after I let it cure for a full 2 days without attaching. Proper prep etc. Scored the back side of the velcro too. Guess I messed something up - so I went another route.

STaylorgr8

This looks like a great idea. Mine just started to fall a little.

Quick question.....You only need to cut 3 metal pieces for the clips on the bottom of the headliner? The magnet will attach to the top metal frame of the roof ok?

What type (gage) metal did you use? Standard galvanized sheet metal? And did you have to use any adhesive to hold the metal in the clips or did stuffing it with cardboard work?

How strong are the magnets? Do you ever see it falling in the future or would you say you permanently fixed it?

Thanks for sharing.

flnsx

TBone,

Thanks for taking the time to do this! The pictures were great! You rock man!

Ron A

I know what you were trying to do, and you did a great job of getting the info in. The pictures are great, too. I didn't know what the lower clip looked like. I should have looked when I fixed my headliner but I forgot, and now I don't want to disturb it, so the pictures helped me understand how it works.

I have copied the shortcut for this thread to my info files, and will use it for reference when the need arises. Most of the older TL's with headliner problems have been repaired, and the newer TL's don't have the problem (I think), so new owner's don't know what we are talking about, but there will probably still be questions about this for a while.

I am patiently waiting until you have had the magnets installed long enough to be sure this works, but it looks like it will. Have they withstood the 100mph moonroof open test yet? As you have said, if Acura had spent a few cents more to put the clips that hold the velcro on both the headliner AND the metal bar, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Keep up the good work. I have no intention of ever deleting this thread with all of its good info.

Just to sum up the info, here is the pricing info and link for the magnets www.kjmagnetics.com

$5.40 Three D84B N45 Disc magnets 1/2X1/4”
$4.50 Standard mail shipping
$6.00 Priority mail shipping

Lore

Uh oh, I used epoxy on the tape side of the velcro strip too... I wonder if that's going to come apart for me too.

Ron A

So far, tbone2004 is the only one I know of to report the white (sticky) part separating from the black (velcro) part. Everyone else who used epoxy on the tape side is still holding (so far).

But now we have an alternate method, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

TBone2004

Thanks - I was so excited about this fix - that's how I got anxious about posting it - I am glad Ron is gonna leave it - it was one of those pump the fist in the air fixes...yes, my wife REALLY thinks I am nuts now...anyway, back to your question, yes I cut 3 square pieces of the metal - left, center and right side (assuming all three have come undone). The magnets have poles on both sides so they can be sandwiched in between two pieces of metal. It stuck no problem - even through the glue scrapings.

I guess it was standard sheet metal. It is stiffer than duct work metal - it was at Home Depot in the hardware section, by hinges etc and angle brackets. If you make a good fit when cutting, very minimal stuffing is required. With the force of the magnet pulling on it, the piece probably will not shift, I just wanted it tighter with the cardboard - cause who needs a self created rattle!

These magnets are stronger than anything I have ever seen. I wrote several emails to Kevin (I am guessing the K of K&J) questioning the strength...they are REAL strong. I first put in the bigger magnets 3/4 x 3/4 x 3/8 - it left a gap of 1/8 inch cause the magnet is too thick - when I went to separate the headliner from roof, to put in smaller magnets, the flexible sheet metal of our roof, came with the headliner as I pulled it down - ain't coming apart. Certainly, I was able to separate them, but it was very strong. The smaller ones that I currently have in there - I wish were a bit stronger - as I can separate them easier - if it does fail during Ron's open roof test, I will opt for the 3/4 x 3/4 X 1/4 size if I can find it.

I do not see it coming down - cause according to my new friends at K&J, the magnet is good until temps of like 170 degrees or something, and if I hit a bump hard enough to jar it loose - I got bigger problems to deal with.

I will let you know how it does at 80 mph with the roof open tonight and report back.

I feel very confident that the idea of magnet will be a permananet fix - I may have to use a bigger size if it does not hold, cause like I said the bigger ones would not come off almost. It took me longer that night to separate the magnets from each other than it did to do the entire fix. VERY strong.

Lets see if they pass the 80 test tonight.

TBone2004

Yep - i think I got the weak white tape

If people have made it passed 2 weeks, then you are probably OK (that's when my tape cried Uncle)- a lot of folks are in CA or FL - so you have much more heat than I had at the time.

If not, we now have a work around - and if this does not work either - we all go in on some sawzall's (sp?) and make 'em convertibles!!!!

Lore

Hey, now that's an idea.

Mine's been holding strong for about a week now. But then again, I'm not parking in direct sunlight very much. Most of the facilities I've been working at have covered parking, so that's kind of nice.

I'll keep an eye out.

zeezz

make sure you dont hold your hd-based mp3 player to the roof! :p

Aegir

Cool fix - very creative. Mine is still hanging in there, but I'll keep this idea in mind in case it finally lets go.

STaylorgr8

Ok, so my passenger side and center adhesive velcro tape lost its stickiness and allowed the headliner to drop a little. I ordered the three magnets as Tbone recommended. I had some extra 18-gage sheet metal lying around. I used it to cut the metal squares ( I only needed 2) and inserted them into the clips (18 gage is perfect thickness, no need to shimmy them). I put one magnet on the passenger side clip and used the reaming two magnets for the center since it dropped the lowest there and the driver side adhesive tape was still sticking from the factory. Took about 5 minutes to do. The magnets are super strong and it holds it very tight. It came out perfect and there’s no way I can see it dropping again.

Thanks Tbone. That was a great idea.

TBone2004

You just made my day! I am so glad to hear it worked out for ya. I did the 80 MPH test on Friday with the sunroof wide open for a good 1/2 hour and they are holding great. Drove in this AM with the sunroof tilted - again no problems.

I think we have a solid alternative here.

I have also heard they are treating Migrane Headaches with Magnetic waves - so if you ever feel a headache coming on - raise your power seat up and Ahhhhh...headache gone.

Thanks for telling us of your experience.

JetJock

Does everyone having headliner problems drive with the moonroof open all the time? It seems that there are lots of people (like myself) who have absolutely no problems with headliner drooping, and those that do. I hardly drive with the roof open due to the noise, and haven't had any problems with the headliner, so I'm curious about those that have the problem. Are you guys driving with the roof open most of the time? When I open the roof, it's mostly driving around town at slow speeds since I find the noise at highway speeds annoying and enjoy the quiet (and audio system) much better with everything buttoned up tight on the highway.

TBone2004

Nah, mine originally dropped without the roof being open at all. BUT - you may want to double check yours - I was not even aware that it was drooping until I opened the roof and peaked in there as mine was only sagging like 1/4 - 3/8 inch - not like some I saw on the Dealer Lot were inches!

But I agree - the force of the air is really knocking 'em down.

Glad to hear yours is OK - it is nice to hear good news!

5AT04TL

TOTAL COST FOR CANADIAN OWNERS:

Steel 1'' x 1'' squares = FREE

Magnets: Minimum order requirements for Intl. Orders at www.kjmagnetics.com = 50$ USD

Shipping for Magnets with UPS Standard to Montreal Canada = 13$ USD

Brokerage Fees charged COD by KJ Magnetics = 42.48$ CAD

TOTAL COST = 63$ USD + 42.48$ CAD

I don't know if it was worth it yet...I just hope it works... KJ Magnetics are idiots for MAKING Canadian owners spend a minimum of 50$ worth of stock.

If they were the ones paying for the shipping I would understand but they charged me the shipping... there is no reason why they should require a minimum order.

I feel like doing a chargeback on my Credit Card...

Just my 3 cents...

rmastbro

Just to let you know, I followed TBone2004 solution with the magnets and it worked great!!! No more drooping headliner !!! I did use 2 of the D84B magnets (side by side) on 3 different locations (6 magnets total) where I replaced the velcro with the steel squares/magnets to ensure I had enough strength to hold up the headliner just in case.

5AT04TL

Dude, you raed my mind. I also used 6 magnets total. 2 on each location and it worked great !

I did make the mistake of ripping the 2 velcos on each side of the sunroof though thinking that the top was made out of metal. So I might have the dealer replace the headliner and redo the fix miself.

So to recap, the fix works and the magnets are SUPER POWERFULL. Becarefull they do break if they slam together and they will pinch your fingers.

IF YOU WANT TO DIY IT WORKS GREAT !

cpgar11

I've been hanging around the board for awhile, but here is my first post. I ran into the headliner issue on my '05, and had the car back at the dealer 3 times for this "sagging headliner issue". Each fix lasted a few weeks and then it would come apart.

I finally decided that the only way to fix this would be to do it myself, so I took Tbone2004's suggestion, magnets.

I ordered from the same place as TBone suggested, but went with a slightly stronger and larger (different style) center magnet: BCC4 (3/4" X 3/4" X 1/4") and 2 of the B884 (1/2" X 1/2" X 1/4") for the two ends (driver and passenger sides).

The magnets did the trick, even at cruising speeds on the freeway with the top open! I am so satisifed with this fix, I just had to post and thank him. Thanks TBone2004 for the idea and the solution!

jmbnova

This is great.... My headliner started doing the same 'sagging' issue just this past week... This is a great idea for a DIY fix... def. going to do this....

Xpditor

cpar11: Welcome to Acurazine and to the 3G TL forum. (Even though you've been a "silent" member since last September.)

You've resurrected an old thread which should go into Problems & Fixes.

I guess I'm one of the fortunate ones who hasn't had drooping headliner issues. However, I almost never open my sun roof. The sun is too hot in Florida and the natural shade on top of my head isn't what it once was.

I'm going to move your thread where it may have more relevence and exposure.

Again, welcome.

bfogarty

I have a 2005 that just developed this problem. I saw on this site that there has been a TSB on this for a while. The dealer will replace the headliner free of charge if the vehicle is under warranty. I just called and the service department was very aware of the problem.