rooster415

hi... so recently my engine light has been blinking like crazy. then stops blinking then blinks again. i took it to my mechanic and he said all cylinders are misfiring. i changed sparks with ngk iridium. and checked all coils but they are fine. he said i might need a valve adjustment? what else could be the problem.? im noticing that my power seems to be gone. dont feel the same torque that i used to and seems to be slower bad acceleration.

i dont do much harsh driving but i do engage vtec everytime i drive. the mechanic said that my car might be in safety mode which makes my car less responsive ? or something like that. and he said that it eats more gas. which i believe is true because i got like 140 miles on my last full tank of gas.

please help me... i am so frustrated at looking at that damn check engine light lol. and fml my front axles are broken too....

2004 acura tl base manual is the car im driving.

J-loza

How many miles is on your car

rooster415

i think i just hit 85k today

rooster415

my car idles like crap too i get liek 1k rpm jumps. and when i turn on ac or heater my rpm jumps and exhaust rattles..... i have 2 magnaflow mufflers.

J-loza

Well does the car fell like its misfiring( running rough)
If it was in limp mode you would definitely know. It would have no power at all.
I would check for an intake leak. Did he show you the misfire codes that all cylinders are misfiring. Seems kind of early for a valve adjustment, but don't rule that out. I would take care of this misfire. Can cause your cats to go bad if you keep driving with a misfire

rooster415

well its a friend mechanic so yeah. know him pretty well he showed me the codes. and it says all cylinders misfire or random misfire. dont remember. but would valve adjustment fix this ? yeah the car runs like my scion tc that i had before lmao. i dont feel the power i used to.

J-loza

It could fix it. I would still check for intake leak. If your rattle coming from your exhaust, it's possible it could be plugged and that could be your misfire and loss of power

geniusnouman

I am currently having the same issue. I have CEL codes P300-P306 and another code for "random cylinder misfire". After checking my spark plugs and coils, I decided to get it diagnosed by Acura dealer. They are saying that they are confident that a valve adjustment would fix it. However, it could be something else as well, and they will "take it from there" after I spend $600 on a valve adjustment.
I will definitely not get that done from an Acura dealer, but I am leaning towards getting a valve adjustment done from my local mechanic so see if that fixes it.

You might find the following thread useful:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/all-cylinders-misfiring-837281/

rooster415

i have just finished reading your thread keep me posted as i will you please waiting until next week to get valve adjustment. dont even want to wait for compression test.

rooster415

sorry im not the mechanic type... but how do i check for intake leak ? where is egr located?

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

Revving the motor out and hitting the vtec rpm range @ WOT puts a tremendous amount of stress on your valvetrain and timing belt components.

I would be looking into doing the 105k service asap along with a valve adjustment. Although your timing belt may not be close to snapping, it does stretch and causes the cams to lose proper timing. Also, your valves are probably out of spec.

As I mentioned in the other thread, your CPS (crank position sensor) could be faulty.

rooster415

Where exactly is that sensor located ? What do you mean my cams may be out spec ?

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

The sensor is located behind the lower timing belt cover, it senses the pickups on the timing belt crank gear.

If the timing belt has stretched, it affects the cam timing. You would be able to see this if you removed both upper timing belt covers. Either cam would not align at TDC when the crank was TDC.

rooster415

so... i reseted my cel about 4 times and got the same codes 4 times. but this time they used 4 different scanners and found out that my 1,5,6 cylinder were misfiring.. but cylinder 1 was misfiring worse than all the others. but as they checked the cylinder the coils were good condition. sparks were good. they removed all of them and check and everythign was fine. they said it might be my fuel that it isnt getting pumped well or something like that but it wasnt the problem. then they did a compression test.. i dont know if it was cylinder specific because im not the mechanic type. but he said the number was 75 the first time then 80 the second time he did the compression test and he said that it should be in the 100's or something like that idont remember. so he said try to do valve adjustment if that doesnt solve it then get a cam job...... what exatly should i do...

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

Here's some information from one of the mods on drive.accord.net and refers to idle conditions:

hope this helps!

rooster415

well thanks ! but they told me that my valves were ok. i needed a valve job.. i dont even know what a valve job is .. what is it ? they told me that it would run me almost 1k if not more to get a valve job.? they said maybe i have a burned valve. and to take it to acura to let them fix it but wouldnt it be cheaper to have my own mechanic fix it ? man this is giving me head aches.

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

You may have burned a valve because your exhaust valves are too tight. If you haven't burned a valve, you don't need a valve job (expensive), but you do need to get a valve adjustment done.

Is the dealer telling you this or an independent mechanic?

Many people believe that quiet valves do not need to be adjusted...this is NOT TRUE! The intake valves tend to loosen up and cause noise, but the exhaust vales tighten up and never make noise before you burn a valve. This can happen at different rates, also. The intake valves could all measure within spec, while the exhaust valves could fall way below spec.

If you follow the directions in my previous post, you can use a vacuum gauge or a scanner to figure this out.

BTW, a valve job involves removing the heads and refinishing/cleaning up the valve mating surfaces inside the combustion chamber. There is a lot of labor involved is very expensive.

pohljm

sounds like a missed shift overev and bent valves to me. hopefully its something less expensive.

rooster415

I have had 2 independent mechanics tell me the same thing .. Get a valve adjustment or get a valve job ..... They said Ida probably a burnt valve .. I have missed shifted 2ce .. I grind a lot before when i first bought the car because I wasnt used to the clutch . So how much does a valve job cost ? I'm thinking of removing be head myself to save the labor but I don't know wxacly what to remove ? But seriously what other things can I do before I come to the conclusion that I need a valve job? Is a compression test on a single cylinder or all at one time ? They said it read 75 and 80 . And it should e a lot higher . He has checked for leaks and by spraying something over the engine , don't remember what it was but no leaks . When they found out it was cylinder 1,5,6 cylinder 1 was misfiring worse than the others so try removed the spark and coil and moved it to cylinder 4 and the coil and spark was fine . Since I have just changed all 6 sparks but the coils are fine too . They said maybe injectors? But they ruled that out I don't remember why . Then I asked what if my belts are loose but he said loose belts means no power but I have power. Then they checked for leaks again and no leaks then they just Sao start with valve adjustment then if not valve job .. But I don't want to spend money on a valve adjustment then it not be te problem then spend thousands on a valve job

rooster415

If this helps you guys they were sitting in my car while revving then unplugged each coil and then were fine until it hit #1 cylinder then they moved it to cylinder 4 but it was fine ... And as you sit in my car it turns over but has a bad crank as it doesn't want to turn over . And as you sit in idle yeh said you can feel and hear the misfire my car shakes rpm jumps and dips . Then yesterday before the check engine light came back on I put my car in reverse revved then the car died then I sat there for about 5 minutes turning the car on revving and the car kept dying for about 4 times then I drove it about 15 miles then it stopped dying .

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

If it's been misshifted and over-rev'd, your valves could definitely be bent. This would probably cause the same symptoms as extemely tight exhaust valves, but require the heads to be removed. If the valve seats/combustion chambers aren't trashed, you would only have to replace the bent vales (intake & exhaust) and do a mild valve job.

A compression test is done on each cylinder, separately. It tells you if your rings, valves, and headgaskets are holding compression. If any one cylinder varies from the others by more 10% of the average psi reading, then you have a problem. Next, you perform a leakdown test by pressurizing the cylinder in question. You're supposed to be able to hear air escaping the cylinder into the intake (intake valve problem), exhaust (exhaust valve problem), or see air bubbles under the radiator cap (headgasket problem).

rooster415

wow.. so i think i should just get a valve job then... does anyone know exactly what i need to remove so i can get a valve job done ? and weird.. i just went out and filled up gas to half a tank and my check engine light stopped blinking and went away....

would like to remove whatever i can or everything. i have to get it sent out correct ?i would like to save as much as i can on labor...

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

You really need the Helms Inc. service manual if you intend to do that yourself.

If you feel comfortable removing the heads, I'd suggest trying a DIY valve adjustment first. It might fix your problems.

If you do end up removing the heads, any reputable engine machine shop should be able to fix the heads/valves for you.

rooster415

my friend suggested swapping engines .. go buy a type s engine and swap it with mine if i have valve issues...

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

If you go that route, you'll need the J35 & tranny to do the swap. Also, you'll probably have to source a J35 ecu and maybe do some wiring.

Marshall4925

reset to turn of engine light
run until gas tank is near empty
add 1 bottle of injector cleaner
add 15 gallons of gasoline
drive until near empty
repeat

Reelingyears

Recently I replaced all 6 plugs on 2000 TL. Immediately, I got misfire message. Engine was searching up and down the idle speed. It turned out that one cylinder, just one, had a shorted plug. I did it when I forced the plug into the cylinder with original plug not removed. And not realizing the plug gap was reduced to zero. Corrected it to right gap, and reinstall. Works fine.
By the way, somebody posted a method for detecting "lazy" cylinder, the cylinder not contributing, by disconnecting electrical connectiosn to coil plug while engine is running. Cycle through all 6 cylinder, one at a time. You would notice the bad ones are the one least affecting the idle speed.

rooster415

well thanks guys !

i recently got my valve adjustment. water pump timing belt done. my valves were totally out of spec. this kept my check engine liek away for around 4 full tanks of gas so i would say aroudn 1-1.2k miles but its back on now... what my mechanic showed me was on the acura bulletin that my 2004 year car might have a recall or update needed on my ecu. has anyone went that route?

Slpr04UA6

^yes went to dealer 3 times before TSB for ECM reflash was performed. Once that update was done, no reoccurrence of CEL since. Dealer should be able to tell you if that TSB has been done before. I had to pay around $50 to get this done.

rooster415

thanks a lot !

shezi01

iTrader: (1)

http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/B03-033.PDF

i have 07 tl type s auto and ran into engine misfire after changing all 6 plugs. that tsb should link above should point you to it.

ONTHEMOVE

iTrader: (2)

Hello members, I'm having (I believe) the same problem. I have a 2004 TL 6mt w/160k. Car was driving fine Saturday morning, left a restaurant and felt some shaking and loss of power from the motor. Stopped at a light and gave the motor a light rev, totally felt misfire(s), also Check Engine Light began to blink.

I carefully/limped the car home. Called a tow truck to take it to the dealer. While waiting for the tow truck I check fluids ect and plugs and coils. Noticed the all three rear coil packs were loose, 2, 3 were so loose(bolt backed out 3/4") that I could pull the coils out to the point where I could here the coil lose suction to the spark plug!

I disconnected positive battery terminal, tightened all bolts/coil packs and reconnected positive terminal. At that point the tow showed up. I hopped in and started the car with hopes that I had fixed it myself quickly. Started TL and the misfire was still present. I did not see/notice if the CEL came back on as I only started the car and revved it once to test.

I let the car go to the dealer. got a call later from the service manager, he asked me what had happened, I explained story, he said he thought they'd have to tear into it pretty heavily, wanted to start with $130 base to begin diagnosis. I asked what codes were present, he said "oh we havent even checked it out or started it up yet" !!! So how can he even begin to know what it is or how much it'll cost without even setting foot in the car yet? Dealers are Stealers.

Told them to check codes and get back to me. They called back with if I remember correctly, 1,3,6 and random misfire codes. SM told me that one of my rear coils had burnt and melted to the spark plug and was unable to be removed. He wanted to remove heads, replace plugs, coils, have heads resurfaced and new gaskets everywhere to the tune of..... wait for it..... $4000. I put him on hold. Had to collect myself before answering him.

Told him that simply wasn't economically doable for me and that I'd have to have the car towed back to my home.

Since then, I've been doing all the research I can and I'm so thankful for this site.

SO I'm waiting to have the car returned to me so that I can start troubleshooting/replacing parts my self at my leisure.

I can't seem to get into the TSB for the misfires, I'm either "denied" entry or the info has dissappeared.

If anyone can help I'd appreciate it, I wonder I if should make my own post.. Sorry if I'm thread jacking. I'll post new as well but since everyone is on topic in this thread, I'll leave it here too(please let me know if this isn't acceptable)

LGcbp8

I get the same message when clicking on that link. You have to pay to register and access that site.
https://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/logon.asp?Region=US

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

@ONTHEMOVE

Did you find out if the coil packs were indeed damaged/melted to the head? There has been a couple instances of this happening when condensation from A/C unit drips onto the ECU (under the dash); shorting some of the connections.

energyblue98

Has anyone solved this issue? This is happening to my 04 TL. Cylinder misfire in 1,2,3,4,5,6. It starts and runs, starting takes a while and it sounds like a diesel when its running.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Each case is different.

you could have but not limited to;
-sucked up water and bent metal.
- if six speed manual, over-revved and bent metal.
-over heated the engine and bent metal.


So, which one did you do?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

if you want to solve it.

you have to get a leak down and a compression test done.

A leak-down tester is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measuring_instrument used to determine the condition of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine by introducing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air into the cylinder and measuring the rate at which it leaks out.
Compression testing is a crude form of leak-down testing which also includes effects due to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_ratio, valve timing, cranking speed, and other factors. Compression tests should normally be done with all spark plugs removed to maximize cranking speed. Cranking compression is a dynamic test of the actual low-speed pumping action, where peak cylinder pressure is measured and stored.
Leak-down testing is a static test. Leak-down tests cylinder leakage paths. Leak-down primarily tests pistons and rings, seated valve sealing, and the head gasket.
Leak-down will not show valve timing and movement problems, or piston movement related sealing problems. Any test should include both compression and leak-down.

after you find out if you bent valves, then you can go ahead and replace the heads or get your old heads remachined

energyblue98

I hadn't done any of those to my knowledge. I will do a compression test to check then. Had a local mechanic change out the valves on cylinder 5 and change the timing about a year ago. Would it be possible that he didn't adjust the valves right causing this issue?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^its very possible that he did something to contribute to your ill effects now.

maybe the timing belt jumped a tooth or a few?
maybe he didnt install the valve correctly?
maybe he didnt have it lined up at TDC?

the only way to find out is to do those test, then tear back into the engine.

energyblue98

Alright, took the exhaust off and confirmed that the rear cat was clogged. I gutted it out and put it back on the car. Turned the car on and it was still difficult to start. So i started the compression test. Looks like that clogged cat screwed up my rear valves.. Looks like I'll do an engine swap.

#1: 123psi
#2: 73psi
#3: 90psi
#4: 215psi
#5: 206psi
#6: 215psi