nfnsquared

I'm not really on "Team anything"...

It's quite possible this whole sequence of events was precipitated by failure of the radiator fan motor (e.g. the failed fan motor caused the overheat which in turn may or may not have caused other issues).

Parts quotes came from RockAuto. Coolant quote is standard Honda dealer pricing (I might be a little low on that estimate. You'll need 2 gallons and it runs $16-$20/gallon IIRC).

Limitless

Talked to mechanic today.

He said he did pressure test the radiator and everything seemed fine.

He said he did tested the old relay and it worked...he watched the radiator fan come on and off like 15 times he says. I asked why it doesnt seem to come on for me, he said if the coolant leaked out so much (it is close to bone dry now) it would stop the radiator fan from switching on because something to do with there needing to be liquid/coolant for it to "read" to know to turn on? Not sure I remember correctly what he said but he said coolant needed to be in system for fan to function.

Now, I have nearly no coolant cause it boiled over. I ordered type 2 Honda fluid (delivered later this week) and a new radiator cap (OEM). In the mean time, i want to test the fan. Mechanic said I should "bleed the system and run it idle with coolant in it...fan should turn on at 180-190 degrees but it'll only come on and off every 30 secs, wont stay on etc." Do I empty the remaining small amount of coolant I have, refill with new coolant, and test? I don't want to keep going through coolant and wasting more money if it's just gonna bubble over or I dont have to really put more coolant in to test the fan. Could I just put water in for testing purposes?

On a side note, I looked and felt the (seemingly) bad fan myself. It doesnt seem to move to manual touch...almost like the sides of the fan are rubbing against the fan mount. I noticed the fan blade itself looks like it is not sitting to the piece it would attach to flush/properly...almost like it came off. It also seems the blades may be rubbing against the mount which is potentially stopping it from spinning? Its just tough to manually spin, and judging by the AC fan--should spin easily to just tapping on it. Pictures are below. The first pic is the AC fan, you can see around the entire thing there's about half inch distance from blade to connecting area. Second pic shows radiator fan...you can see at one point theres about half inch distance, but at the top theres nearly no distance...seems clear the fan blade piece is not mounted properly.

Limitless

Testing it now...there is some coolant still in the system (when car is cold it shows nearly no coolant in reservoir, but radiator cap shows topped off...note: I put some water in the radiator cap yesterday).

When the car idles as it is now, I see the reservoir coolant level higher now (at cold nearly nothing, warm now it's about at the "minimum" level line in the coolant reservoir.

The radiator fan has not turned on at all yet. I do hear and see the AC fan turning on and off though on passenger side. The AC switch is NOT turned on in the car as it idles.

Limitless

Update: in 45 min of idling the radiator fan DID come on ONE time. It did spin, however, it is clearly off its axis and not spinning with full torque...basically like a warped looking fan head.

The reservoir tank has filled nearly to the "max" line while running hot. Previously it was nearly bone dry in the reservoir tank (when engine cold).

AC fan keeps coming on...which as I understand is normal.

If I hold the rpms at 3000 the temp gauge starts to move from middle of hot and cold towards hot slowly...also notice the coolant reservoir goes higher and higher. Radiator fan did not turn on in 5 min of doing this.

I seriously hope Honda type 2 coolant coupled with a 1.1 pressure OEM radiator cap fixes any potential coolant bubbling... Plan is to wait till I get those, drain coolant, burp it (prob need tips for this), refill...test again.

Car seems safe to drive if I keep monitoring reservoir/radiator coolant levels. Again, when cold the radiator coolant level has stayed topped off but reservoir tank is near empty.

Is it possible my bubbling coolant after my "mechanic" added coolant himself was the result of SOLELY him overfilling it?? Prob not.

nfnsquared

From what you previously described, he didn't do a pressure test. A pressure test is done with the coolant cold. A pressure tester is connected to the radiator where the radiator cap goes and 14-18 psi is pumped into the system by the pressure tester device. Then you check for leaks.

If it worked, why did he replace it?


Are you sure he wasn't looking at the A/C condenser fan? If he was looking at the radiator fan, why didn't he notice it was off-center?

Do you mean no coolant in the radiator or no coolant in the overflow jug?

I wonder if your thermostat is stuck partially closed? It's definitely not totally closed because you'd overheat probably in about 5 minutes or less after temp gauge starts to move above "C".

Limitless

He claims he did a pressure test...I said verbatim "but you did pressure test the radiator, right?" and he said yes. No idea what to believe.

I think I meant to write he tested the old relay and it didn't work...got charged for a new relay.

Its possible he was looking at the AC condenser fan, but being a mechanic, I'd hope and think he'd know the difference? No idea how/why he wouldn't see the radiator fan was off center. It's pretty obvious...especially if it was spinning (looks so f'ed up when spinning, and spins slow).

I meant coolant in the radiator jug/reservoir when the car is Cool. Its fairly low...earlier today it was barely existant. Right now, 4 hours after the car was on, it's right below the "minimum" level. I'll see where it's at later today/tomorrow before starting the car. The radiator itself seems full after taking the cap off--at least earlier today it was before starting the car.

I had read about the thermostat stuff too, and was thinking of just ordering it cause why not...dont think it's too expensive.

can someone help me with the correct/best thermostat and radiator fan? I dont really understand the difference of all of these, besides the price. Is one "better" than others? Should I be buying OEM parts?

Thermostat - like 8 of them
2005 ACURA TL 3.2L V6 Thermostat | RockAuto

Radiator fan - Am I correct in saying I definitely need the "fan assembly" and not like the "motor" (or anything else)? The fan did visibly spin at least once, albeit all warped and slower than usual cause it is off its axis. I just want to be sure I order the correct part. Again there are like 6 different fans...which??
2005 ACURA TL 3.2L V6 Radiator Fan Assembly | RockAuto

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

I would check the coolant using a Combustion Leak Test kit to see if coolant contaminated. If it proves to be contaminated, which it probably is, then on to pulling the heads, sending to machine shop for evaluation/machining, then installation.

Certainly looks like the one fan needs replacement, one will run to cool the rad, one will run when A/C on, and there are times when both will run on high, and definitely replace the thermostat.

The O2 sensor wouldn’t have caused the overheat condition, either thermostat or no cooling fan operation when in traffic.

I would bite the bullet and have the engine repaired, but over the years have seen Bar's Leak work miracles with slight seepage, but it certainly isn't a quick fix for all head gasket problems. If tried and found not to work, have the cooling system flushed thoroughly.

When using the car, minimum repair would be thermostat, overflow reservoir, cooling fan replacement and keep an eye on the temp gauge.

nfnsquared

Combustion leak test was negative. Doesn't necessarily mean that the HG isn't compromised.

OP needs to fix known issues to then determine if HG is bad: Radiator cap, fan assembly, coolant and maybe thermostat. Personally, I'd get the cap and fan fixed first with new coolant, then see what happens. If temps continue to rise above the halfway mark, then replace the thermostat.

OP, for your questions on which fan assembly to get, I don't have a good answer. The folks at RA can help you out, they are very knowledgeable. Give them a call

Jesse729

iTrader: (2)

I don't know for sure about the 2005 TL but on my 2007 TL and most new Hondas and new cars in general have temp gauges that lie. On mine as long as the temp is between 175 and 210F the gauge stays in the exact same spot even though each tick on the gauge is about 5 degrees. So it is not a very good tool to see small changes in engine temperature.

I would recommend getting a bluetooth OBD-II reader on amazon and the torque pro app. If you plug that in you can see the real temp and monitor it. It would be good to know at what times the car is heating up ie idle or moving or both.

From my experience the stock thermostat opens at 175F and with A/C off the radiator fans will cycle on at 210F and shut off at 195F. Also from looking at the torque app on a hot day 90+ my car will run between 190F and 210F in stop and go traffic. Once I get moving it will cool down to 175F with freeway driving and the AC off.

stegey

whew , sounds to me like too many people involved. my suggestion definetely new rad cap, fan motor or assmebly , new t-stat just because of all the overheats, drain coolant and have it filled with a air lift tool that pulls a vacum on the cooling system to fill so NO Air gets in system. then drive it like you stole it just kidding .

the only one of these type engines i have personally seen with a blown head gasket, would run rough on initial cold start from coolant seeping into one or 2 cyls.

the only head gasket fix in a can , that may work can't remember the name for sure not bars leak , i was thinking blue devil but don't quote me on that , i really don't think you have that problem anyway , if no hydro carbon showing or missing out on first start.

musiclevelz5

Limitless all you need is a basic metric socket kit and some wrenches with a pliers for the rad hose clamps and you can install a new radiator and fan yourself. You do not need to go to these so called mechanics with their abilities as good as a mouse in diagnosing something.

Hint: That means they are worthless and just trying to rake in your money.

stegey

Thanks for generalizing ALL mechanics , music guy . seems to me the dealer was the worst of them and most expensive , yet most goof balls on here will only take their car to the dealer. cuz ther the experts.

i pretty much give up on giving Free advice on here generally never appreciated because they have way too much input , and diagnosing something over the net or phone for that matter is a best guess at most and experience related . i have better sh&*^ to worry about.

stegey

As a side note , when i lived in Denver i did IM240 failure repairs, out of 100 cars 99 of them passed after i repaired and DIAGNOSED them so , maybe i was a pretty good mouse as you put it. this was in the days of less advanced cars with no obd connector , some even carburated. pretty easy .

uvb4less

Hope OP got his situation resolved. Rather than start a new thread...

My 05 6mt TL overheated when a piece near the firewall broke causing all the coolant to leak out. It stalled, I noticed temp gauge was maxxed out. I stopped and let it cool down. It was smoking a bit. Towed it in and had the piece fixed, coolant filled. Car runs at normal temp now. No water/bubbles/milky in oil. The only issue -- it seems to lose a little power esp when I use a lot of throttle. The more throttle I use, esp in low RPMs, it seems like it has to "catch up" and eventually all the power comes back, in kind of a jolt.

Based on other reading, if it is a HG, it could also be the head also, in which case it is more prudent to replace the motor from a boneyard (sounds correct, or is it?) I can have a 100k replacement put in with water pump, timing belt, for $1500 all parts motor labor included.

Should I have the dealership check it out, or do the headgasket test myself? Do I have good info? Any ideas/input greatly apprec. Also, when I pull the motor, would it be prudent to also do the clutch then as well?

Thnks....

uvb4less

Additional info:
Mpg down 15-18% in town, 8% on highway
has a fairly pronounced vibration on start up that was never there before the overheat
any help greatly appreciated

uvb4less

anyone? Should I bank on doing just a headgasket, or just replace the entire motor for $1400 + cost of timing belt and water pump (to avoid the possibility of it being the head too?)
Any other parts that are easy to change while in there, like my bad 3rd gear synchro (6mt), clutch which has 30k on it, etc?

HondaFan81

To OP and uvb4less:

It appears both of you have some engine related concern that is the cause for elevated engine operating temperatures, resulting in elevating coolant temperatures. Watching your engine coolant temperature gauge is key and should be habit, it is evident neither of you practice this. I say this not to be harsh, but hope you learn this as vehicle owners. The difference between those that do watch the gauge and those that do not, is engine internal damage. You will see signs beforehand, you have it diagnosed and then repair before problems.

OP,
At best, you may be in the earlier stages of elevated engine temperature concerns since your engine when adequately filled with coolant, appears to run near normal coolant gauge temperature. You need to figure out the source of bubbles, which is a coolant system leak or a result of engine combustion chamber pressure (typically via headgasket leak path). Honda headgaskets are multi-layered steel and I have seen on failures by design. The only failures I've seen or heard of are caused by elevated engine temperatures due to another cause, so headgasket leaks are secondary failure modes. Therefore, simply replacing them does not fix the primary cause. You need to focus on primary cause to fix your problem. I would not blame the mechanic that replaced your cooling fan relay, as you intentionally gave them limited information and he was probably under the impression you have an "initial failure mode".

Hints:
Look for obvious white smoke out exhaust while engine running: This means coolant in combustion chamber (typically cylinder head issue).
Milky color to engine oil: Coolant mixing with engine oil (cylinder head or block issue, gives more idea on leak location within engine...near oil passage or cavity)
If none of the above, you may have isolated coolant system leak (do inspection mentioned below).

- Inspect for any coolant system leaks (via radiator, larger radiator hoses or smaller coolant hoses) and replace any necessary hoses for diagnostics (Long Term: If this issue resolved and all well, consider replacing them all due to overheating).
- Replace the small and cheap coolant parts that are needed anyhow (thermostat, coolant reservoir w/new small hoses). Was the thermostat verified to be working? I would think so, since hot, boiling coolant fluid is making to your radiator and overflow reservoir.
- Replace cooling fan, given the radial play damage. When cooling fan does not work, you will see raised coolant gauge temperatures while idling or "stop & go" driving situations for long periods (especially in hot climates). This could be reason for initial failure, which then resulted in a coolant leakpath being exposed and now with "some fixes" in place, you are left with this created coolant leak path. I'd have to evaluate your original overheat conditions and have details to assess, etc.
- Regardless, there is a coolant system leakpath, as to why the bubbles. Easy thing to do is inspect and eliminate any coolant fluid leaks via hoses or radiator. If your issues still exists, then you likely have a cylinder head related concern. This will be more expensive and require removing and having cylinder heads inspected for cracks and repaired OR cylinder head replacement with new headgaskets (new seals and gaskets are standard in this type of repair).


uvb4less,
You may have a more extreme elevated engine temperature issue and more internal engine concerns. The fuel reduction and description you have as to your overheat situation is more concerning. Keywords that are red flags for me: Engine bay smoke, engine stalled and significant fuel reduction. I think you're at the decision point: Do I keep this car running for a while & make other plans OR replace engine to keep long-term.

The idling vibration may be one or both: Firewall coolant leak may have resulted in hot coolant damaging your vacuum hose to rear engine mount. If this vacuum hose has leak now, would cause idle vibration AND/OR your engine at idle has more friction to overcome due to internal damage (scoring, galling of parts, etc).

HondaFan81

I want to note that these Honda J30, J32 and J35 engine are great and reliable, when well maintained. I have owned several J32 and J35 variants myself and/or maintained. My family and I have taken them over 200K miles easily and my current 2004 TL 6MT has 240K miles and counting. My point being, they need to be well maintained and that includes being mindful as you drive your vehicle of what is going on. Take note and repair high priority items, such as safety or high dollar (i.e. engine/transaxle related issues).

Hope you all can resolve your issues and get back to driving, but you will not find any magic advice in your current situations other than what has been said. It comes down to having a competent person diagnose your current situation and give you realistic options based on this assessment. Can your engine be fixed and still run long enough for what you need OR replace engine OR replace vehicle?

When you max out your coolant temp gauge, more than likely internal engine damage has been done, you may not know now or will later. Seen this happen before when after and overheat event due to seal oil leak...issue fixed, engine ran another 8,000 miles (I believe because Mobil1 full-synthetic was being used) and later engine overheated again to engine seizure. Balance countershaft seized due to initial overheat as a result of oil loss due to seal leak, journals scored, etc.

Marl06

Hey, you gave some really good info about this a few years back. I believe my head gasket went on my TLS '08. How would I know if the the heads are warped and or cracked. Can the engine be saved or should I start looking for another vehicle or even engine?? Someone is quoting me at 2800 for a new rebuilt engine installed and I'm getting a price or 1,000 for a head gasket fix from Acura. 8hr job or so.
Thank so much for you everyone's help on this. This happened 3 weeks ago and I haven't made to much head except what I mentioned.
Thanks everyone.

csmeance

Why do you think the HG went? Any loss of coolant? Milky oil? Compression issues?

Marl06

Car overheated. And when I looked under the hood, there resovoir had a crack and the fluid coming out of the radiator was the milky liquid. Currently getting some advice on the best route to go, and obviously praying for the best, God knows.

I'm also recently seeing the codes for "misfires" - P300, P302, P303, P304.

Some prices I received was 1300, but I need to inquire and double check that they are doing "both​​​​​​" Head Gaskets for that price as I've been told doesn't make sense to do just one when you're that deep in the Engine.

Any suggestions and or thoughts from folks.
Thanks I really would appreciate any assistance,
Thanks all

Marl06

Man this is very unfortunate.
this place used to be heavy with response to concerns etc. It's gotten very quiet here.

El_Cheapo

Suggestions will depend on whether you do the work yourself or getting it done by a shop.

If it were me doing my own work (cheaper route):

1. Determine what caused the overheating. Pressurize the coolant system.
2. Check compression to confirm blown head gasket on both banks
3. Remove heads and check deck and head flatness
4. Inspect heads, might need to take them to a machine shop to check they can hold vacuum
5. If both are within spec, replace head gasket

If you're not doing your own work:

1. Have them confirm if single or both banks have a blown head gasket
2. Get quotes for single and both gaskets R&R
3. Get quotes for used engine R&R
4. Shop around from dealer to indy shops