6MT couldn't shift into 1st from neutral, clutch pedal also sometimes feels stiff
11-14-2011, 04:13 PM
#1
6MT couldn't shift into 1st from neutral, clutch pedal also sometimes feels stiff
Just earlier today, I was sitting in neutral at a stop light, and when it turned green, I tried to shift into 1st, but it wouldn't let me. It was as if I was trying to shift into 1st without the clutch pedal depressed, but I had it all the way down.
I've also noticed that sometimes the clutch pedal feels very stiff, taking a lot of effort to press it, and sometimes it engages with the pedal much closer to the floor than normal. This has caused me to unintentionally spin the tires when shifting. I even stalled this morning because it engaged so soon.
I just noticed this thread here. I wonder if we have a similar problem.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/clutch-still-drags-after-replacing-clutch-master-cylinder-838471/
I wonder if I need a new clutch. I don't want to bring it to the dealer to have something changed that won't fix the problem. Any idea what might be the problem(s)?
And I'm not sure if I want to take it to the dealer or a transmission shop. What would you do?
Thanks in advance.
I've also noticed that sometimes the clutch pedal feels very stiff, taking a lot of effort to press it, and sometimes it engages with the pedal much closer to the floor than normal. This has caused me to unintentionally spin the tires when shifting. I even stalled this morning because it engaged so soon.
I just noticed this thread here. I wonder if we have a similar problem.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/clutch-still-drags-after-replacing-clutch-master-cylinder-838471/
I wonder if I need a new clutch. I don't want to bring it to the dealer to have something changed that won't fix the problem. Any idea what might be the problem(s)?
And I'm not sure if I want to take it to the dealer or a transmission shop. What would you do?
Thanks in advance.
11-14-2011, 05:21 PM
#3
the overexplainer
i saw your post in the other thread. I would probably take it to a shop to get it checked out. It could be a bad clutch (rather, pressure plate) if the pedal becomes ridiculously stiff, or something hampering movement inside the transmission case.
Low engagement can be caused by a bad cylinder not pushing fluid where it needs to go..but the hard pedal sounds like a clutch problem.
My 93 integra used a cable actuated clutch, and the clutch itself was a different design with springs in the clutch disk unlike the TL. It was not uncommon for those clutch springs to pop out and obstruct movement. I knew something was wrong when the clutch got really hard to push. Harder than my friend's Evo.
My integra's old clutch:
on an unrelated note, the above is why i no longer teach people how to drive manual in my car. I'm almost certain the accidental clutch dumps and jerky starts caused this.
Low engagement can be caused by a bad cylinder not pushing fluid where it needs to go..but the hard pedal sounds like a clutch problem.
My 93 integra used a cable actuated clutch, and the clutch itself was a different design with springs in the clutch disk unlike the TL. It was not uncommon for those clutch springs to pop out and obstruct movement. I knew something was wrong when the clutch got really hard to push. Harder than my friend's Evo.
My integra's old clutch:
on an unrelated note, the above is why i no longer teach people how to drive manual in my car. I'm almost certain the accidental clutch dumps and jerky starts caused this.
Last edited by ez12a; 11-14-2011 at 05:28 PM.
11-14-2011, 06:17 PM
#4
For reference, here are pics of the TL clutch.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/so-i-just-replaced-my-clutch-pics-inside-838583/
As you can see, there is a lot more to the pressure plate than a normal clutch like the Integra one pictured above. This is because it has a self-adjusting mechanism that keeps the engagement point in the pedal at the same place. I suppose if anything happened like what was mentioned above (spring pops out), you could have a similar problem.
Either way, you can get the same OEM clutch as a kit direct from LUK (the maker of your original clutch) on ebay for about 190. Part number is 08-047. Of course labor is going to be expensive unless you know someone that can help you DIY. But you can bet Acura would charge you between 3 and 6 hundred just for the same parts. lol
One other problem could be related to the dual-mass flywheel. This is of course more complicated than a typical flywheel (solid mass). If you have trouble with that, LUK sells the flywheel DMF062. They used to be about $300, but it looks like the price is now around $420.
Good luck with figuring it out.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/so-i-just-replaced-my-clutch-pics-inside-838583/
As you can see, there is a lot more to the pressure plate than a normal clutch like the Integra one pictured above. This is because it has a self-adjusting mechanism that keeps the engagement point in the pedal at the same place. I suppose if anything happened like what was mentioned above (spring pops out), you could have a similar problem.
Either way, you can get the same OEM clutch as a kit direct from LUK (the maker of your original clutch) on ebay for about 190. Part number is 08-047. Of course labor is going to be expensive unless you know someone that can help you DIY. But you can bet Acura would charge you between 3 and 6 hundred just for the same parts. lol
One other problem could be related to the dual-mass flywheel. This is of course more complicated than a typical flywheel (solid mass). If you have trouble with that, LUK sells the flywheel DMF062. They used to be about $300, but it looks like the price is now around $420.
Good luck with figuring it out.
11-18-2011, 02:57 AM
#5
dealer says need new clutch
I finally had a chance to take it to the dealer, and they said I need a new clutch.
At first they quoted me $1880. I called the parts department to see how much the clutch would cost, and the guy asked if I needed the flywheel too because it wasn't machinable. That got me wondering about the $1880 because Aamco quoted me $705 for labor, and the clutch costs $437. Add $72 for the throwout bearing, $677 for the flywheel, and the Aamco total is $1891. I thought to myself, "There's no way the dealer would be that cheap," and sure enough, the dealer quote didn't include the flywheel. The service advisor thought it would be similar to an RSX clutch replacement where you could machine the flywheel, but I told him that parts told me the flywheel wasn't machinable, so after he looked into it, he apologized and gave me a discount. $2100 plus tax is the new price.
I think I want to ask for a loaner car just so that I can experience one of the newer Acuras.
As I was reading through some threads here, I started wondering if I should also try to see if they can give me a good deal on the timing belt service. I'm at about 104k miles right now. I printed out that $389.98 coupon from Hamilton Honda to show my dealer, but I'm thinking they probably won't be able to match it or even come close, but let's see what happens. $497.54 was what DMZ reported as the final total in another thread. I think I was told somewhere around $1200 from my dealer. Oh well.
Oh, and I think I'll ask them to do a compression test to see why I'm getting random misfires. I'm almost positive it's because I over reved it when I accidentally shifted into 1st instead of 3rd. I wonder if the $133 diagnostic fee will cover that. I guess they'll need to confirm it with a leak-down test? I hope they know how to do it properly.
And I'm even thinking about having the half-shafts replaced because they're clicking a lot. Should I do that instead of having the boots replaced? Man, this is gonna cost a lot!
Thank you all for your help!
At first they quoted me $1880. I called the parts department to see how much the clutch would cost, and the guy asked if I needed the flywheel too because it wasn't machinable. That got me wondering about the $1880 because Aamco quoted me $705 for labor, and the clutch costs $437. Add $72 for the throwout bearing, $677 for the flywheel, and the Aamco total is $1891. I thought to myself, "There's no way the dealer would be that cheap," and sure enough, the dealer quote didn't include the flywheel. The service advisor thought it would be similar to an RSX clutch replacement where you could machine the flywheel, but I told him that parts told me the flywheel wasn't machinable, so after he looked into it, he apologized and gave me a discount. $2100 plus tax is the new price.
I think I want to ask for a loaner car just so that I can experience one of the newer Acuras.
As I was reading through some threads here, I started wondering if I should also try to see if they can give me a good deal on the timing belt service. I'm at about 104k miles right now. I printed out that $389.98 coupon from Hamilton Honda to show my dealer, but I'm thinking they probably won't be able to match it or even come close, but let's see what happens. $497.54 was what DMZ reported as the final total in another thread. I think I was told somewhere around $1200 from my dealer. Oh well.
Oh, and I think I'll ask them to do a compression test to see why I'm getting random misfires. I'm almost positive it's because I over reved it when I accidentally shifted into 1st instead of 3rd. I wonder if the $133 diagnostic fee will cover that. I guess they'll need to confirm it with a leak-down test? I hope they know how to do it properly.
And I'm even thinking about having the half-shafts replaced because they're clicking a lot. Should I do that instead of having the boots replaced? Man, this is gonna cost a lot!
Thank you all for your help!
Last edited by robocam; 11-18-2011 at 03:01 AM.
11-18-2011, 03:07 AM
#6
I just thought of one more thing I wanted to ask. Are there any other parts that should be replaced while they're in there already? I read somewhere about the side engine mount. Should that be replaced? Any other mounts or parts?
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
11-18-2011, 07:05 AM
#7
Registered Member
The following users liked this post:
robocam (11-28-2011)
Trending Topics
11-27-2011, 10:03 PM
#8
no, not another problem! sticky clutch pedal
Thanks. I asked about that, and they said it was included.
New problem. I got the car back a few days ago with a new OEM clutch and flywheel (also had timing belt service done), and my first impression was that the clutch pedal felt super loose, as if it took very little effort to depress it. Since I bought the car used at 77k miles, I wasn't sure what to make of it since I never drove it when it was new. But something just doesn't feel right. I wondered to myself if I just got used to the stiff pedal.
As I did heavy throttle shift from 2nd to 3rd, I noticed a lot of clutch slippage. I thought maybe the clutch just needed some time to "break-in," but I've noticed something else. The clutch pedal feels "sticky." If I fully depress the clutch pedal, I can lift my foot off of the pedal faster than it can come out. Is this not normal?
A 1-2 upshift can barely break the tires loose and only after lots of clutch slippage. Before, a 1-2 upshift instantly broke the tires loose.
Any ideas? It feels as if the orifice in the clutch delay valve were narrowed, but would that affect pedal feel?
New problem. I got the car back a few days ago with a new OEM clutch and flywheel (also had timing belt service done), and my first impression was that the clutch pedal felt super loose, as if it took very little effort to depress it. Since I bought the car used at 77k miles, I wasn't sure what to make of it since I never drove it when it was new. But something just doesn't feel right. I wondered to myself if I just got used to the stiff pedal.
As I did heavy throttle shift from 2nd to 3rd, I noticed a lot of clutch slippage. I thought maybe the clutch just needed some time to "break-in," but I've noticed something else. The clutch pedal feels "sticky." If I fully depress the clutch pedal, I can lift my foot off of the pedal faster than it can come out. Is this not normal?
A 1-2 upshift can barely break the tires loose and only after lots of clutch slippage. Before, a 1-2 upshift instantly broke the tires loose.
Any ideas? It feels as if the orifice in the clutch delay valve were narrowed, but would that affect pedal feel?
Last edited by robocam; 11-27-2011 at 10:07 PM.
11-27-2011, 11:59 PM
#9
the overexplainer
take it back to the shop and test drive with one of the mechs.
could have been/be a master/slave clutch cylinder.
I got my integra's clutch replaced and it did not slip at all. I cant comment on the "loose pedal" since the integra's is a cable clutch. It did feel very light after replacement. Slipping the clutch when fully engaged should not be part of the break in process of the clutch.
could have been/be a master/slave clutch cylinder.
I got my integra's clutch replaced and it did not slip at all. I cant comment on the "loose pedal" since the integra's is a cable clutch. It did feel very light after replacement. Slipping the clutch when fully engaged should not be part of the break in process of the clutch.
The following users liked this post:
robocam (11-28-2011)
11-28-2011, 12:22 AM
#10
Thanks. I hope the Acura dealer doesn't charge me another $133 to diagnose this issue.
Just to clarify. The clutch isn't slipping when it is engaged. It only slips a little before fully engaging after I let go of the clutch pedal after a 1-2 upshift (more slipping during the 2-3 upshift). No matter how quickly I take my foot off of the clutch pedal, the clutch doesn't "bite" as hard as it used to. I know there's a clutch delay valve that softens the bite, but it feels much softer than before. The other thing I was wondering about was if grease on the clutch/flywheel could cause this, but even then, that wouldn't explain the "slow-return" behavior of the clutch pedal.
It would be really strange if a clutch cylinder and the clutch itself wore out at the same time (unless if a worn clutch can somehow damage a clutch cylinder). I always thought a worn-out clutch would start slipping when fully engaged. I hope the clutch really needed replacing because it was really expensive (just over $2000). Is there a way to tell if the old clutch is truly worn? I have the old clutch.
Just to clarify. The clutch isn't slipping when it is engaged. It only slips a little before fully engaging after I let go of the clutch pedal after a 1-2 upshift (more slipping during the 2-3 upshift). No matter how quickly I take my foot off of the clutch pedal, the clutch doesn't "bite" as hard as it used to. I know there's a clutch delay valve that softens the bite, but it feels much softer than before. The other thing I was wondering about was if grease on the clutch/flywheel could cause this, but even then, that wouldn't explain the "slow-return" behavior of the clutch pedal.
It would be really strange if a clutch cylinder and the clutch itself wore out at the same time (unless if a worn clutch can somehow damage a clutch cylinder). I always thought a worn-out clutch would start slipping when fully engaged. I hope the clutch really needed replacing because it was really expensive (just over $2000). Is there a way to tell if the old clutch is truly worn? I have the old clutch.
take it back to the shop and test drive with one of the mechs.
could have been/be a master/slave clutch cylinder.
I got my integra's clutch replaced and it did not slip at all. I cant comment on the "loose pedal" since the integra's is a cable clutch. It did feel very light after replacement. Slipping the clutch when fully engaged should not be part of the break in process of the clutch.
could have been/be a master/slave clutch cylinder.
I got my integra's clutch replaced and it did not slip at all. I cant comment on the "loose pedal" since the integra's is a cable clutch. It did feel very light after replacement. Slipping the clutch when fully engaged should not be part of the break in process of the clutch.
Last edited by robocam; 11-28-2011 at 12:32 AM.
11-28-2011, 01:37 AM
#11
Could it be this?
I did a search for "clutch pedal" and found this thread. It sounds very similar to what I'm experiencing, but not as severe.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...t=clutch+pedal
Could it have been that it was the clutch master cylinder all along? Or maybe it was both the clutch AND the clutch master cylinder at the same time.
Here are a couple other relevant threads.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...t=clutch+pedal
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...t=clutch+pedal
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...t=clutch+pedal
Could it have been that it was the clutch master cylinder all along? Or maybe it was both the clutch AND the clutch master cylinder at the same time.
Here are a couple other relevant threads.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...t=clutch+pedal
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...t=clutch+pedal
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mada51589
3G TL Problems & Fixes
79
05-03-2022 08:54 PM
mugen_kid
Member Cars for Sale
7
11-13-2015 10:38 PM
kixo
2G TSX (2009-2014)
6
09-05-2015 08:54 PM
