DisgustipatedAP1

Hi all,

Just got my '05 TL 6 speed with 93k miles two days ago. Already bought GM Synchromesh Friction Modified tranny fluid in hopes of fixing the 3rd gear grind that came with the car - no dice. The 3rd gear grinds every time, so I'm guessing the synchro is done.

Anyone know how much it costs to buy the 3rd gear synchro and what approximate labor would be to have it done? Also, if anyone knows the 3rd gear synchro part number, that'd be very helpful. Thanks.

p.s. I highly doubt Acura will fix this out of goodwill, right?

SouthernBoy

There is a TSB on this problem. You might want to do one or two drain and fills with Honda's MT fluid first before taking your car in to have this addressed. It if is grinding all the time, almost certainly your synchronizer set for 3rd gear is shot.

arrowpig

Ah ha! My 07 TL has the same issue. Too bad I discovered it a week or so after I just purchased it. Does the fact that a TSB exists help with paying for the fix if the car's out of warranty? Also, why would a couple of flush/fills help this problem long term?

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Just incase Acura tries to blame the GM fluid. It will have no effect on the problem long term.

ez12a

If you have a good relationship with your local dealer you might get some of the cost discounted. But if you havent been taking your other presumably Acura cars to Acura then it'd be tough to get them to eat a good portion of the cost.

Different fluids have different amounts friction modifiers (which can either increase or decrease friction). The GM fluid changes the friction coefficient within the gearbox.

Since your car is relatively "new" I think at least some type of discount wouldnt be too far off base.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Just out of curiosity, how much gold flake did you have in the drained fluid?

I have to change mine again after about 20K miles changing it @ 7K miles originally. The original fluid was full of glitter.

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

Well the fluid works for the majority...There is a difference between having a damaged transmission that no fluid could help or mask, and having a good working transmission with a very occasional bump out of 3rd gear that will never happen again after the fluid swap. In your case you obviously have a faulty transmission that either needs the TSB performed or a rebuild. Unfortunately since its an 05 im not sure if there is anything they will be able to do for you since the 3rd gear TSB is not a recall. Hopefully you can get something worked out though keep us up to date.

Just out of curiousity did you buy the car knowing that 3rd gear was shot? Or did you know it was shot and assumed the fluid would fix the problem? I dont see how anyone or a dealership could have a sold a car without a functioning 3rd gear or if they did was the car deeply discounted? Either way hope you get it sorted out.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

You're kidding right? One of the evils of buying used is getting someone's problem. It's functioning, just poorly.

DisgustipatedAP1

Update:

Figured out that if I double clutch upshifts to 3rd gear, it'll go in smoothly. Revmatched downshifts from 4th to 3rd still grind, however.

I bought the car knowing 3rd gear had a grind and thinking the GM Synchromesh FM would fix it - took a gamble, and lost. However, I got the car for $10k so as long as the fix is $1k or under, I still got a great deal. AAMCO quoted $700 to fix the problem. Hoping the stealership can do it for less...

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^sounds good! keep us updated.

csmeance

Make sure they use the updated gear sets! Also while you are in there have them look for any other worn stuff that might need replacing! Also look into your clutch and see if it might be worth replacing!

ez12a

heck you might as well change everything with it open like that and be good for the next 100k+ miles.

SouthernBoy

You don't need, and shouldn't, double clutch an upshift since the higher gear set is turning at a lower speed than is the lower gear from which you are shifting. The only time you should consider double clutching an upshift is when you timing/shift has been interrupted and engine and lay shaft speeds have fallen off too much.

Rev matching does nothing for synchronizers and gear speed matching but double clutching does. So double clutching your downshifts, if done properly, will allow you to engage lower gears without any grinding.

DisgustipatedAP1

The clutch is actually brand new, so I should be good for a while.

I was just doing it to see if it minimized the grind. It did.

Double clutching + revmatch on the downshift still causes 3rd to grind. I'm wondering if it's the synchronizer or if the teeth on the countershaft are broken, ala Opel's thread.

Gonna hit up Acura and see if they'll give me a decent price on the work.

SouthernBoy

Double clutching includes a rev matched blip.... just some clarification, so I hope you're doing this right. If you are and you are still experiencing grinding regardless of how well you can double clutch, I would guess a sleeve, shifter fork, or blocker ring is failing.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

It's too bad the gearset wasn't replaced with the clutch. Removing the transmission is the majority of the work.

DisgustipatedAP1

Yeah, it's a shame.

Either I'll have AAMCO do it since they already 'diagnosed' it, or the dealer. Maybe even an independent shop. I really don't want to get hosed. I gotta call up the AAMCO the previous owner went to and see if they can give me the full story on it...

DMZ

The problem is you don't really know how the previous owner drove it nor how often he changed the fluid and with what kind. Hate to tell you this, but whether you go to the stealership or AAMCO, you're likely to get hosed as transmission repairs are one the biggest ripoffs in the auto repair industry. Transmission shops almost always sell you on a whole rebuild no matter what the problem.

Good luck ................
.
.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

^I suppose that is the world we live in now. My father had a friend who owned a transmission shop and never thought of ripping people off. One guy with 3 bays full all of the time.

It also appears as though someone has been given the wrong diagnosis already if a new clutch is in there with 3rd gear grinding.

DisgustipatedAP1

Supposedly a couple weeks before the clutch was replaced was when the 3rd gear started grinding. Apparently the clutch went out, they replaced it, then said for $700 they could fix the 'teeth' on 3rd gear.

I'm not really a transmission expert so I can't comment on what it truly might be, but I'll take it to the dealer today so they can (most likely) give me the runaround.

Anyone know a good transmission shop in SoCal?

DisgustipatedAP1

Ok so I had a decent talk with the stealership service manager.

He was very warm and polite, and definitely accomodating. He took about 30 minutes going over everything with me and said that he'd refer this to Acura and get their approval for a fix since it has less than 100k miles.

Told him about the TSB and how common the 3rd gear problems are... he said that if Acura does approve it (likely), that they'd most likely only be paying for a whole new 3rd gear set and sticking me with the labor (quoted @ $1200). He said he'd try to work with me on the labor and get it down to $1000.

Does anyone else think I should just go with this? Getting the new updated 3rd gear set should be almost like getting a new transmission since supposedly the 'fixed' 3rd gear set won't brake and all the rest of my gears are fine. Or should I order the whole 3rd gear set and find an independent shop? I get the feeling an independent shop will charge anywhere from $500-1000 to drop the tranny and install the new gear set...

Any advice would be welcome.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I never take my vehicles to the dealer.

If I were you, I'd just take it to an indie mechanic and get it done for a lot cheaper.

DisgustipatedAP1

Me either, I really dislike stealerships but I personally don't know any good shops around that would do it for cheap. Plus I still have spend about $250-300 on the gear set... I have no idea how much a shop would want for labor. I could check around, but I don't want someone that's going to do a bootleg job of it and fuck me over.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^what area do you live?
post in the region section, and ask for shops that do a good job.


In my experience, I find that indie shops do a better job than dealers.
granted, everyone makes mistakes.

DisgustipatedAP1

I'm in SoCal. I take it back, I might know a shop that'll do it but then Acura won't pay for the 3rd gear set. If a shop would do it for $400-600 labor, that'd be slick.

I'll post up in the regional forums, thanks for the idea.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I just checked the prices for all of the parts needed in the TSB and through Delray Acura, it comes to just under $280 shipped.

arrowpig

Thanks for all of this great info, and for the references to the other threads out there. I have purchased the GM fluid now but haven't put it in yet, and just *happened* to search the warranty details before coming back and seeing your answers to my previous questions. Even though the private party who I bought it from told me that the warranty was out, it turns out that the drive train warranty on my 07 with 45K miles is 6 years and 70K miles!! So based on your previous answers, here's another question or two:
1) If I have a warranty, AND I trust my dealer to do the work, AND if I request they use the "updated" 3rd gear set, should I still do the multiple flush and fills with Acura fluid (not GM of course)? If so, should that be done with some miles between them to clean out the flakes? Would it be better for the dealership to see the glitter so they know what's going on?
2) I found the TSB here: http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/b08-018.pdf
3) IF the dealer does the job with the new gear set, would you experienced TL owndes still recommend changing to the GM fluid at the end of the warranty period?

BTW, I LOVE my new TL in every other regard. Now if I can only keep the kids away from the awesome finish!

DisgustipatedAP1

Bump...

Talked to the service manager at my local Acura dealer again today. He said Acura declined to help me out with any expenses because the car had 93k miles on it (so much for Acura standing behind their product, even with a known defect), but he offered to do the labor for $700 if I bring him the parts.

KN TLposted in here that the whole TSB part set for 3rd gear would only be $280, so I guess I'm gonna order that.

Hopefully they don't fuck up my transmission and do a decent job.

DisgustipatedAP1

Also thought I'd reply to this:

I can now successfully double clutch upshift and downshift 3rd gear with no grinds. I have to let the revs fall on upshifts, and on downshifts I just have to revmatch it perfectly. So I guess it's not all bad.

UNC_Tl

I am having the same issue. In fact, i called up the Acura dealer today to find out if goodwill is any good for me. Will be going to him tomorrow but I highly doubt if anything can be done. I bought the car like 3 weeks back for 11.5k. Its done 73k miles. I really do not want to spend >1k getting this stuff. Curious to know what eventually happened with your vehicle since I couldn't find any recent posts.

Renescent

I had mine replaced at 58k miles and they replaced the clutch for free since 'they were already in there'.