3rd gear grinds every time - GM Synchromesh doesn't work
#1
3rd gear grinds every time - GM Synchromesh doesn't work
Hi all,
Just got my '05 TL 6 speed with 93k miles two days ago. Already bought GM Synchromesh Friction Modified tranny fluid in hopes of fixing the 3rd gear grind that came with the car - no dice. The 3rd gear grinds every time, so I'm guessing the synchro is done.
Anyone know how much it costs to buy the 3rd gear synchro and what approximate labor would be to have it done? Also, if anyone knows the 3rd gear synchro part number, that'd be very helpful. Thanks.
p.s. I highly doubt Acura will fix this out of goodwill, right?
Just got my '05 TL 6 speed with 93k miles two days ago. Already bought GM Synchromesh Friction Modified tranny fluid in hopes of fixing the 3rd gear grind that came with the car - no dice. The 3rd gear grinds every time, so I'm guessing the synchro is done.
Anyone know how much it costs to buy the 3rd gear synchro and what approximate labor would be to have it done? Also, if anyone knows the 3rd gear synchro part number, that'd be very helpful. Thanks.
p.s. I highly doubt Acura will fix this out of goodwill, right?
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
#2
Registered Member
There is a TSB on this problem. You might want to do one or two drain and fills with Honda's MT fluid first before taking your car in to have this addressed. It if is grinding all the time, almost certainly your synchronizer set for 3rd gear is shot.
#3
Ah ha! My 07 TL has the same issue. Too bad I discovered it a week or so after I just purchased it. Does the fact that a TSB exists help with paying for the fix if the car's out of warranty?
Also, why would a couple of flush/fills help this problem long term?
![Frown](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
#5
the overexplainer
If you have a good relationship with your local dealer you might get some of the cost discounted. But if you havent been taking your other presumably Acura cars to Acura then it'd be tough to get them to eat a good portion of the cost.
Different fluids have different amounts friction modifiers (which can either increase or decrease friction). The GM fluid changes the friction coefficient within the gearbox.
Since your car is relatively "new" I think at least some type of discount wouldnt be too far off base.
Different fluids have different amounts friction modifiers (which can either increase or decrease friction). The GM fluid changes the friction coefficient within the gearbox.
Since your car is relatively "new" I think at least some type of discount wouldnt be too far off base.
#7
Safety Car
iTrader: (4)
Well the fluid works for the majority...There is a difference between having a damaged transmission that no fluid could help or mask, and having a good working transmission with a very occasional bump out of 3rd gear that will never happen again after the fluid swap. In your case you obviously have a faulty transmission that either needs the TSB performed or a rebuild. Unfortunately since its an 05 im not sure if there is anything they will be able to do for you since the 3rd gear TSB is not a recall. Hopefully you can get something worked out though keep us up to date.
Just out of curiousity did you buy the car knowing that 3rd gear was shot? Or did you know it was shot and assumed the fluid would fix the problem? I dont see how anyone or a dealership could have a sold a car without a functioning 3rd gear or if they did was the car deeply discounted? Either way hope you get it sorted out.
Just out of curiousity did you buy the car knowing that 3rd gear was shot? Or did you know it was shot and assumed the fluid would fix the problem? I dont see how anyone or a dealership could have a sold a car without a functioning 3rd gear or if they did was the car deeply discounted? Either way hope you get it sorted out.
Last edited by JTS97Z28; 07-19-2011 at 10:08 AM.
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#9
Update:
Figured out that if I double clutch upshifts to 3rd gear, it'll go in smoothly. Revmatched downshifts from 4th to 3rd still grind, however.
I bought the car knowing 3rd gear had a grind and thinking the GM Synchromesh FM would fix it - took a gamble, and lost. However, I got the car for $10k so as long as the fix is $1k or under, I still got a great deal. AAMCO quoted $700 to fix the problem. Hoping the stealership can do it for less...
Figured out that if I double clutch upshifts to 3rd gear, it'll go in smoothly. Revmatched downshifts from 4th to 3rd still grind, however.
I bought the car knowing 3rd gear had a grind and thinking the GM Synchromesh FM would fix it - took a gamble, and lost. However, I got the car for $10k so as long as the fix is $1k or under, I still got a great deal. AAMCO quoted $700 to fix the problem. Hoping the stealership can do it for less...
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justnspace (07-19-2011)
#11
Senior Moderator
Update:
Figured out that if I double clutch upshifts to 3rd gear, it'll go in smoothly. Revmatched downshifts from 4th to 3rd still grind, however.
I bought the car knowing 3rd gear had a grind and thinking the GM Synchromesh FM would fix it - took a gamble, and lost. However, I got the car for $10k so as long as the fix is $1k or under, I still got a great deal. AAMCO quoted $700 to fix the problem. Hoping the stealership can do it for less...
Figured out that if I double clutch upshifts to 3rd gear, it'll go in smoothly. Revmatched downshifts from 4th to 3rd still grind, however.
I bought the car knowing 3rd gear had a grind and thinking the GM Synchromesh FM would fix it - took a gamble, and lost. However, I got the car for $10k so as long as the fix is $1k or under, I still got a great deal. AAMCO quoted $700 to fix the problem. Hoping the stealership can do it for less...
#13
Registered Member
Update:
Figured out that if I double clutch upshifts to 3rd gear, it'll go in smoothly. Revmatched downshifts from 4th to 3rd still grind, however.
I bought the car knowing 3rd gear had a grind and thinking the GM Synchromesh FM would fix it - took a gamble, and lost. However, I got the car for $10k so as long as the fix is $1k or under, I still got a great deal. AAMCO quoted $700 to fix the problem. Hoping the stealership can do it for less...
Figured out that if I double clutch upshifts to 3rd gear, it'll go in smoothly. Revmatched downshifts from 4th to 3rd still grind, however.
I bought the car knowing 3rd gear had a grind and thinking the GM Synchromesh FM would fix it - took a gamble, and lost. However, I got the car for $10k so as long as the fix is $1k or under, I still got a great deal. AAMCO quoted $700 to fix the problem. Hoping the stealership can do it for less...
Rev matching does nothing for synchronizers and gear speed matching but double clutching does. So double clutching your downshifts, if done properly, will allow you to engage lower gears without any grinding.
#14
You don't need, and shouldn't, double clutch an upshift since the higher gear set is turning at a lower speed than is the lower gear from which you are shifting. The only time you should consider double clutching an upshift is when you timing/shift has been interrupted and engine and lay shaft speeds have fallen off too much.
Rev matching does nothing for synchronizers and gear speed matching but double clutching does. So double clutching your downshifts, if done properly, will allow you to engage lower gears without any grinding.
Rev matching does nothing for synchronizers and gear speed matching but double clutching does. So double clutching your downshifts, if done properly, will allow you to engage lower gears without any grinding.
Double clutching + revmatch on the downshift still causes 3rd to grind. I'm wondering if it's the synchronizer or if the teeth on the countershaft are broken, ala Opel's thread.
Gonna hit up Acura and see if they'll give me a decent price on the work.
#15
Registered Member
The clutch is actually brand new, so I should be good for a while.
I was just doing it to see if it minimized the grind. It did.
Double clutching + revmatch on the downshift still causes 3rd to grind. I'm wondering if it's the synchronizer or if the teeth on the countershaft are broken, ala Opel's thread.
Gonna hit up Acura and see if they'll give me a decent price on the work.
I was just doing it to see if it minimized the grind. It did.
Double clutching + revmatch on the downshift still causes 3rd to grind. I'm wondering if it's the synchronizer or if the teeth on the countershaft are broken, ala Opel's thread.
Gonna hit up Acura and see if they'll give me a decent price on the work.
#17
Yeah, it's a shame.
Either I'll have AAMCO do it since they already 'diagnosed' it, or the dealer. Maybe even an independent shop. I really don't want to get hosed. I gotta call up the AAMCO the previous owner went to and see if they can give me the full story on it...
Either I'll have AAMCO do it since they already 'diagnosed' it, or the dealer. Maybe even an independent shop. I really don't want to get hosed. I gotta call up the AAMCO the previous owner went to and see if they can give me the full story on it...
#18
Head a da Family
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Good luck ................
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#19
Safety Car
iTrader: (3)
^I suppose that is the world we live in now. My father had a friend who owned a transmission shop and never thought of ripping people off. One guy with 3 bays full all of the time.
It also appears as though someone has been given the wrong diagnosis already if a new clutch is in there with 3rd gear grinding.
It also appears as though someone has been given the wrong diagnosis already if a new clutch is in there with 3rd gear grinding.
#20
^I suppose that is the world we live in now. My father had a friend who owned a transmission shop and never thought of ripping people off. One guy with 3 bays full all of the time.
It also appears as though someone has been given the wrong diagnosis already if a new clutch is in there with 3rd gear grinding.
It also appears as though someone has been given the wrong diagnosis already if a new clutch is in there with 3rd gear grinding.
I'm not really a transmission expert so I can't comment on what it truly might be, but I'll take it to the dealer today so they can (most likely) give me the runaround.
Anyone know a good transmission shop in SoCal?
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
#21
Ok so I had a decent talk with the stealership service manager.
He was very warm and polite, and definitely accomodating. He took about 30 minutes going over everything with me and said that he'd refer this to Acura and get their approval for a fix since it has less than 100k miles.
Told him about the TSB and how common the 3rd gear problems are... he said that if Acura does approve it (likely), that they'd most likely only be paying for a whole new 3rd gear set and sticking me with the labor (quoted @ $1200). He said he'd try to work with me on the labor and get it down to $1000.
Does anyone else think I should just go with this? Getting the new updated 3rd gear set should be almost like getting a new transmission since supposedly the 'fixed' 3rd gear set won't brake and all the rest of my gears are fine. Or should I order the whole 3rd gear set and find an independent shop? I get the feeling an independent shop will charge anywhere from $500-1000 to drop the tranny and install the new gear set...
Any advice would be welcome.
He was very warm and polite, and definitely accomodating. He took about 30 minutes going over everything with me and said that he'd refer this to Acura and get their approval for a fix since it has less than 100k miles.
Told him about the TSB and how common the 3rd gear problems are... he said that if Acura does approve it (likely), that they'd most likely only be paying for a whole new 3rd gear set and sticking me with the labor (quoted @ $1200). He said he'd try to work with me on the labor and get it down to $1000.
Does anyone else think I should just go with this? Getting the new updated 3rd gear set should be almost like getting a new transmission since supposedly the 'fixed' 3rd gear set won't brake and all the rest of my gears are fine. Or should I order the whole 3rd gear set and find an independent shop? I get the feeling an independent shop will charge anywhere from $500-1000 to drop the tranny and install the new gear set...
Any advice would be welcome.
#23
Me either, I really dislike stealerships but I personally don't know any good shops around that would do it for cheap. Plus I still have spend about $250-300 on the gear set... I have no idea how much a shop would want for labor. I could check around, but I don't want someone that's going to do a bootleg job of it and fuck me over.
#25
I'll post up in the regional forums, thanks for the idea.
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justnspace (07-22-2011)
#27
Thanks for all of this great info, and for the references to the other threads out there. I have purchased the GM fluid now but haven't put it in yet, and just *happened* to search the warranty details before coming back and seeing your answers to my previous questions. Even though the private party who I bought it from told me that the warranty was out, it turns out that the drive train warranty on my 07 with 45K miles is 6 years and 70K miles!! So based on your previous answers, here's another question or two:
1) If I have a warranty, AND I trust my dealer to do the work, AND if I request they use the "updated" 3rd gear set, should I still do the multiple flush and fills with Acura fluid (not GM of course)? If so, should that be done with some miles between them to clean out the flakes? Would it be better for the dealership to see the glitter so they know what's going on?
2) I found the TSB here: http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/b08-018.pdf
3) IF the dealer does the job with the new gear set, would you experienced TL owndes still recommend changing to the GM fluid at the end of the warranty period?
BTW, I LOVE my new TL in every other regard. Now if I can only keep the kids away from the awesome finish!
1) If I have a warranty, AND I trust my dealer to do the work, AND if I request they use the "updated" 3rd gear set, should I still do the multiple flush and fills with Acura fluid (not GM of course)? If so, should that be done with some miles between them to clean out the flakes? Would it be better for the dealership to see the glitter so they know what's going on?
2) I found the TSB here: http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/b08-018.pdf
3) IF the dealer does the job with the new gear set, would you experienced TL owndes still recommend changing to the GM fluid at the end of the warranty period?
BTW, I LOVE my new TL in every other regard. Now if I can only keep the kids away from the awesome finish!
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#28
Bump...
Talked to the service manager at my local Acura dealer again today. He said Acura declined to help me out with any expenses because the car had 93k miles on it (so much for Acura standing behind their product, even with a known defect), but he offered to do the labor for $700 if I bring him the parts.
KN TLposted in here that the whole TSB part set for 3rd gear would only be $280, so I guess I'm gonna order that.
Hopefully they don't fuck up my transmission and do a decent job.
Talked to the service manager at my local Acura dealer again today. He said Acura declined to help me out with any expenses because the car had 93k miles on it (so much for Acura standing behind their product, even with a known defect), but he offered to do the labor for $700 if I bring him the parts.
KN TLposted in here that the whole TSB part set for 3rd gear would only be $280, so I guess I'm gonna order that.
Hopefully they don't fuck up my transmission and do a decent job.
#29
Double clutching includes a rev matched blip.... just some clarification, so I hope you're doing this right. If you are and you are still experiencing grinding regardless of how well you can double clutch, I would guess a sleeve, shifter fork, or blocker ring is failing.
I can now successfully double clutch upshift and downshift 3rd gear with no grinds. I have to let the revs fall on upshifts, and on downshifts I just have to revmatch it perfectly. So I guess it's not all bad.
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#30
Hi all,
Just got my '05 TL 6 speed with 93k miles two days ago. Already bought GM Synchromesh Friction Modified tranny fluid in hopes of fixing the 3rd gear grind that came with the car - no dice. The 3rd gear grinds every time, so I'm guessing the synchro is done.
Anyone know how much it costs to buy the 3rd gear synchro and what approximate labor would be to have it done? Also, if anyone knows the 3rd gear synchro part number, that'd be very helpful. Thanks.
p.s. I highly doubt Acura will fix this out of goodwill, right?![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
Just got my '05 TL 6 speed with 93k miles two days ago. Already bought GM Synchromesh Friction Modified tranny fluid in hopes of fixing the 3rd gear grind that came with the car - no dice. The 3rd gear grinds every time, so I'm guessing the synchro is done.
Anyone know how much it costs to buy the 3rd gear synchro and what approximate labor would be to have it done? Also, if anyone knows the 3rd gear synchro part number, that'd be very helpful. Thanks.
p.s. I highly doubt Acura will fix this out of goodwill, right?
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
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