DyTL07

Hey Guys,

I need help figuring out this problem.
I use to get 330 miles on a full tank before the gas lamp would turn on. After i changed my oil and oil filter i only get 270, thats it has been the last 3 fills. All the variables of the commute are the same. My tire pressures were 33,32. I got 40k miles on my car. So i cant think of anything that requires changing yet.


I have a 07 TL with
-K&n air filter (20,000 without cleaning yet,tried wiping it down)
-Using fram oil filter
-Mobile 1 5w20
-changed my tire pressure to 35 on all 4 tires
-i normally use 87

I added gas fuel injector as well after every oil change.

What could possibly be the problem or solution? Any help would be appreciated

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Premium only, sir.

Also summer blends of gas differ from winter blends.

odehboy

Do yourself a favor and only use premium

nfnsquared

Not another one of these threads!!!!

OP, read your manual. Minimum of 91 octane!!!

It might take 2 or 3 tanks for your PCM to adjust or you could read up on resetting the PCM and reset it after you fill up with 91 octane.

NJ SHAWD

As the OP states he normally uses 87, it doesn't sound like that would be the problem for the recent drop in mileage (althought you really should run premium). It sounds more like you are now experiencing the side effects of winter (ethanol mix) gas. We usually drop aboot 10% in the winter months. I'll guess that you're Canadian?

DyTL07

yeah, i had no problems with going 87, and never realized that winter months (ethanonl mix) would drop 10%. Would switching to premium make the difference?

My fiance drives a honda accord 07 and she usually gets the same mileage on a full tank. She uses 87 as well and still retaining 330+ per fill during this cold weather.

So I conclude it is due to the cold weather for my acura tl? I have never experienced that drop off the past 2 years that i have owned it.

I live in So Cal and right now it is colder and raining.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

IIRC, the accord doesnt need premium.
the TL does.

NJ SHAWD

I assumed you were in the north but not sure if they switch gas in So Cal? Anyone know here?

I hate cars

Unfortunately they do.

To the OP.... Search.

The TL runs 11:1 compression. The Accord runs 10:1 compression. TL requires premium. The higher the better up to about 96 octane.

You might not realize there's a problem with it but there is. MPG will improve significantly. Power will improve. Not to mention you're destroying the engine with detonation on 87. A car tuned for 91 will get better mileage than one tuned for 87. You should be happy the TL requires premium, it will cost you less in fuel in the long run and you get more power.

Premium fuel contains more cleaners, no need to ever use a cleaner with premium.

Oil could never make that kind of difference even if you went from a 5w-20 to a 20w-50.

Filter does not matter.

Air filter makes no difference on mpg even if it's plugged.

Average mph according to your mid is much more valuable in determining where you should be mpg wise.

DyTL07

Thank you for that clarification going premium from now on

I hate cars

Just be prepared for it to take a tank or two for the ECU to put the timing back in for the extra mpg. You won't get back up to where you were but it will help especially in city driving. When summer comes back around you should be at an all time high.

jdb8805

At 40K on my 2004 TL, I was experiencing a similar drop in mileage, although not as extreme as yours. I decided to change my spark plugs and even though the stock iridium plugs are supposed to last 100k, they looked like junk when I pulled them out. They are almost 7 years old, so maybe that's a factor.

I think I may have gotten back some of the mileage that I lost, but I've only used 1/2 a tank since the change.

Chad05TL

same thing happened to me over thanksgiving. I know I filled up with 91 because thats all Quiktrip sells. Usually I get 7-11 93 octane.. but when I left town, QT was all there was. And maybe thats why I got much worse gas mileage driving to tulsa from dallas this year than last year.??

Anyway, I would think dirty spark plugs would be a progressive thing rather than all of a sudden.. And I would think a rough idle would be associated with the engine if they were that dirty to reduce mileage. Spark plugs are basically just a conductor and a ground that is insulated by ceramic. Not much to go wrong with a spark plug unless you have major engine problems.. like oil leaking or improper fuel mixture.

I hate cars

Thank you! People constantly over complicate plugs. The only thing you have to do is use the correct heat range for your engine and usage and the correct material for the amount of mileage you intend on running between changes. That's it. I have regular old $2 copper plugs in mine one heat range colder and they work great because I change them at least every 40,000 miles.

DeMAN

My 06TL has a little over 100k miles. I've always used premium from a high volume premium station (Shell, Chervon, Exxon)

I say that but this will be one of the reason why I will not be buying another Acura. (Required premium fuel) Hyundai just blew two myth away by showing first that a high ratio engine and second a turbo could safely run on regular gas and still get great gas mileage.

These cars are the same in power and size (TL and Sonata) The Turbo Sonata is about 300lbs due to it being a 4.

eccjak

My car has 69,781 miles on it and two weeks ago a full tank was 330 miles then today it reads 281 miles. Yes, this is on premium gas.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

shoot, I'm at 62K, time for plugs for me too!

nfnsquared

104,500 miles on the original plugs and I just ran a 1630 mile road trip (round trip) over Thanksgiving averaging 30.5 mpg on 91 octane gas. New plugs going in soon, though.

I hate cars

You won't get another TL because it requires premium? It gets better mileage and costs less in the long run because it runs premium. Acura is saving money on fuel by doing this but no one ever gets it.
Hyundai copies other auto makers. They did not blow any myths away, this has been done for years. Let's compare apples to apples..... The Sonata is a 9.5:1 engine, hardly a high compression engine. It's direct injected which is the reason why it can get away with a modest boost level on 87 octane. With current technology you could not pay me to own a DI engine car. There are too many reliability issues at this point. I believe they are the wave of the future but I wouldn't buy one for another 5 years until they get the major kinks worked out.

You don't want to pay a few extra bucks for the TL's premium fuel. How do you like doing a whole top end cleaner and pulling the intake manifold and sometimes the heads off every so often to clean the intake deposits common with all DI engines with Toyotas being the exception? You may not realize this for a few years but manufacturers will begin specifying a very specific oil, one with an ultra low NOACK value. This is not cheap. They are known for losing serious power as the deposits quickly build so enjoy your full power now before it starts going away.
It's lighter and has only 4 cylinders but gets about the same mileage as the TL...... That is the difference in a premium tune and an 87 tune.

The 300lbs doesn't come from the engine. I would guess the J32 and the turbo 4 banger come in very close to the same weight. I'm sure the Sonata has a small advantage but the fully dressed J32 barely weighs 300lbs. I'm sure some of the weight difference is in the form of luxury items and sound deadening.


Let's not forget the Sonata is not in the same class as the TL in anything but a straight line. There's some neat technology packed into that engine but let's not make it into something it's not.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Maybe I DON'T need to plugs yet then...hmmm....
maybe a lighter foot! lol.

Uh oh...IHC is fired up!
Don't bother...some people don't like logic.

DeMAN

The normally aspirated engine is a 2.4 DI with a 11.3 ratio engine and yet it runs on 87 octane gas.

Funny you mentioned that, the Hyundai is tuned for both, 87 and premium grade gas

The Sonata was built from the ground up to be a four vs the the TL. The interior demension are basically the same with the Sonata being a little larger.

I would rather see Honda find another way to get the additional 8hp over the accord (same engine) other than higher compression.

Other cars in this group also use or is tuned to run on regular. CTS (3.6DI), Lacrosse, hyundai Genesis to name a few. All currently outsells the Acura TL. (The CTS and Genesis does also comes as a coupe and there is no current breakout of the numbers between the two)

I hate cars

Exactly. It's a DI engine which is why it can run the extra compression. You're comparing apples to oranges. DI comes with it's own set of problems, I would rather pump premium than deal with that.
No, it's tuned for 87 but premium won't hurt just like anything else that's tuned for 87.
So???
Do you have a reason for this? It gets better mileage and more power on premium. What other route would you like to see Acura take? It's a free 8hp since the mpg savings more than make up for the price at the pump.
The cars you mention are either DI or do not run as high of compression as the TL. Again, I'm not understanding your point.

Why are you talking sales numbers in this thread?

As I said before, small displacement high boost DI engines are the future but I'm not touching one until the bugs, namely intake tract deposits are worked out.

This is DI at 100,000 miles. I've seen some at 40,000 that looked just as bad...

Re: Carbon Buildup


Originally Posted by oc-drop
sheesh that pic looks like ape fingers

.. is this something that some seafoam cannot address?



Yeah. If you want to pull the intake mani every 5k!

This is what we all have to look forward too




'06 2.0T S-line Tip

Stasis/Ohlins Motorsports, Stasis 14.5" BBk, Stasis rear BBK, H-sport rear sway, APR 91 & 100, E-code testpipe, 18" Wed'sSports w/ Toyo R888, 19" Tenzo-R's w/ 265/30 all corners, Stern upper arms, upgraded stereo crap, Huper tint, RS4

jda123

For me, DI today = 1980s GM, Olds, Pontiac Diesels. Please buy them so that these companies have a guinea pigs to work with. With the F150 getting DI engines this model year, some of those guys will hit 200K in a few years... I might get one in 2020.

Back to the topic, do our cars run lean to warm themselves up? I have noticed a drop in MPG too when running short trips in the cold and the engine never gets really warm. If my car stays warm all day, then the MPG is normal.

ImagePree

^^ Actually, I believe all Hondas run VERY rich at start up.

DeMAN

All cars (gas) starts up rich and leans out as the engine warms up.

One more comment about DI engines; I can show you other engines with the same issues if they are not maintained. Always buy gas from a high volume good retailer. (Shell, Exxon, Chevron, BP) These brands all have the additive package to protect the new technology engines

Back on topic. Our (wife and I)TL gets 30mpg+ when we keep it under 75mph. It drops about 4mpg when we go over 75 I will be doing a tuneup around 105k miles, which should be next month.

I hate cars

No port injected engine will ever have buildups like that 100K picture. The 40K pictures look like an unmaintained 500,000 mile port injected engine. It's a very real problem with DI engines. Toyota has partially solved it with a port injector that runs under some conditions. The fuel being sprayed on the backside of the intake valve cleans it. With DI it makes no difference what fuel you use since the fuel never sees the intake tract. This is the problem, no cleaning by the fuel so you get EGR and oil vapor deposits. Installing an oil catch can helps a little. Using an oil with a super low NOACK helps. If you could eliminate the EGR it would greatly help.

nfnsquared

Reportedly, the TL intentionally dumps raw fuel at start up to quickly heat up the CATs in order to meet ULEV. This accounts (reportedly) for the rough idle when cold.

I say reportedly because I've never seen an Acura document that states this.

I hate cars

Lol. It's kind of true. I don't agree with manufacturers using the public as their testing mules but they do it anyway. They are a great concept as you can run more compression and more boost for the same octane but they have to get the deposit problems solved. Besides the deposits, there is a slight durability issue with some of them. The injector in the combustion chamber sometimes washes the oil off the cylinder walls resulting in more wear and more frequent oil changes.

Short trips will always ruin mileage. The TL goes rich only for about 3 seconds and then it goes very lean and retards the timing. Running rich places the fuel in the cats and then it goes lean which raises temps and then it retards the timing which greatly raises exhaust temps. This lights off the fuel the cats and starts the chemical reaction almost instantly. The 02s also light off extremely quickly. This car is in closed loop feedback operation within 10 seconds of a cold start which is absolutely amazing. My contrast, my old fuel injected turbo car from the '80s takes about 5-7 minutes to do this same thing.

Back to the mileage, it's not so much the rich mixture that kills the mileage anymore since it barely runs rich. The oil is about 5-8 times it's normal viscosity and just the short trip alone where average speeds are probably pretty low.

I hate cars

I believe it was Inaccurate along with maybe Bert?? who posted videos of their 02 readings during startup. It had an amazingly quick lightoff of the 02s. Looked to go rich for a few seconds and then out to 15.0 and within 10 seconds it was around 14.7.

DyTL07

Tried running 91 premium after 4 fills still getting low mpg roughly 270 on full tank.

What would you guys do at this point? change oil and filter? bring to dealer?

VTEC_Dreams

How do you drive?

I notice utterly insane differences in gas mileage just based on my driving habits. I've been conducting an informal experiment with my almost all-city driving DD--a 2007 Honda Fit--over the course of the last 4 tanks of gas. For the first two tanks, I drove fairly aggressively on purpose to see how poor the gas mileage could get in the city. Record low=27mpg. I just polished off the third tank...I drove as conservatively as I safely could, and got damn-near-makes-no-difference-to 35mpg. All city. Lots of stoplights. Lots of turning the car on and off going back and forth from location to location for work. I'm going to reeeeeeally try hard to push 37-38 on the next tank just by changing up my driving style a bit more.

So anyhow...

I'm *really* new to the TL, but so far being light on the throttle and driving smart has eked me out 27mpg average over the course of one and a half tanks. Granted, it was about 40% highway mileage, but I was expecting far worse gas mileage overall. If I can average 24-25 overall I'll be pleased as punch.

I'm really curious to see how it does in the long run, and I hope you can figure out what is killing your mpg's!

lemonade

I know it has nothing to do with your situation, but my 05 AT had 1-2 MPG drop after I changed the OEM POS tire (MXM4) to BFgoodrich G-force sport (directional summer tire).
One thing I notice right after the tire change is that since there's more rolling resistance, the transmission doesn't want to shift to 5th gear at around 40-45 mph on light load, instead it stays at 4th, so sometimes i need to manually shift it to 5th and then go to "D", then it will stay in 5th, but it's kind of annoying. Well, traction and mpg are 2 end i know.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Just wait it out till spring.
the Cold makes everything work harder.

DyTL07

Yeah i drive the same as i did when i got higher mileage and thats through the morning LA traffic commute. It is has never dropped this much since I have I been driving for the past 3 years.

DyTL07

that would make sense if every winter it went down on mpg and then summer it went up again. I been driving this car for 3 years and it has been fairly consistent oh mpg until now which dropped to 270 even on 91 premium. I might just change out my oil next weekend.