Bogdan TL

Just bought a 05 TL with 72k miles. There is a little work required to get it in gear and I am not sure if it's normal or not. Last stick I had was back in Europe , not really related to a TL ( 1986 Citroen BX 1.9 diesel - 5 speed MT ). The shifting on that car was precise and smooth.
This TL has a weird shifting phenomenon: I need to push the shifter into 3rd gear rather hard, it goes past a "bump" (kind'a like the clutch isn't down all the way). Does not happen all the time - 70% of the time is fine, but the rest of the time if I'm not careful it will "pop" out of the 3rd gear and I find myself redlining the engine and in need to show it in gear again.
Also getting it in the 1st gear I have to get over a little "bump" but the Acura guy that drove it said it's fine. I get the feeling that something is up with a lot of 6MT Acura's - 3rd gear issue ?.
What should I do ? Any help will be appreciated ! Thanks

Timeless

GM Friction Modified transmission fluid will almost definitely fix this issue. Theres a great deal of discussion about this topic.

Bogdan TL

Thanks for the answer. 2 questions: Will Acura Dealership change it for me (if not, who will I trust?) and where do I get it, how much do I need ?
And third question: I read a post (not here) saying that it will improve performance, but increase wear. What Do U think ?

csmeance

If you are under warranty, get the updated 3rd gear set to fix the issue. If not, go with GM synchromesh modified as stated above. It does wonders for the 6mt.

Bogdan TL

Stubborn question: found this article in the Acura Service News Bulletin :http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/B070100.PDF
They recommend their own "Precision Crafted" MT fluid. Would U still go with the GM synchromesh ? Would Acura install it ?
The Dealership offered an extended warranty $1200 for 24 months - powertrain - do U think it will cover the updated 3rd gear set ? Is that an issue that Acura owns up to ? Like '00- '03 TL's tranny failures ?

Timeless

As I understand, Acura is trying not to completely fess up to this third gear issue. If you have a warranty and the tranny fails while running the GM fluid, you will not be covered. Even if the GM fluid is superior, Acura will say its not and your screwed. Problem is, I'm not to keen on letting any one rip into my transmission and fix an issue that I easilly fixed by swapping fluids.

You can get the GM fluid at any GM dealer, you need 2.3 quarts (If I remember correctly) Therefore would need to purchase 3 quarts from the dealer. IDK about it supposedly increasing wear. I'm also not sure where you read this or how it was proven.

Bogdan TL

Good point. I think that a MT is a delicate think to open up and patch up. I did some on-line research and I came up with these guys discussing benefits and risks of switching to non manufacturer recommended oil. Check it out and let me know what U think:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...919646&fpart=1
How many of U guys did the change to GM oil ? How about changing it and not telling the dealer ? How will they know ?

Bogdan TL

Is this the one you are talking about ? Could not find GM, this is Pennzoil 1 qt. Synchromesh Manual Transmission Fluid - at Autozone

SouthernBoy

I own an '04 manual TL (original owner) with over 62K miles on it. It has never had the infamous 3rd problem or any other problem with the tranny. However, I have drained the tranny fluid twice and installed the GMSFM fluid both times. There is a TBS out on the 3G TL manual transmission for this problem which should span any sort of warranty. But believe me, I am also very reluctant to take my car to any dealer for any reason at all if I can help it.

The proper name for the GM fluid is "General Motors Synchomesh Friction Modified" and the part number is 12377916. It costs over $12 a bottle and you will need three bottles. A drain and refill takes 2.3 quarts (that's 2 quarts, 9.6 ounces or 10 ounces rounded). If you do the work yourself, and you should if possible, you will need two washers, a long tube funnel, a torque wrench (very important), some ramps and a floor jack (optional). I did a writeup on doing the work and trust me.. it is simple and a no mess job. You do NOT need to remove the battery as some people do. It is the easiest manual transmission drain and refill I have ever done.

Bogdan TL

I drained my MT yesterday - 2.4 quarts came out - the mechanic said it looked pretty clean , he would not have changed it ...
Filled it up with 2.4 quarts of GM Synchromesh Friction Modified - and - surprise - all the problems are gone- shifts like silk. Amazing. Thank You guys !!!

Bogdan TL

I have to say that I can still feel some rough shifting in 1st and 3rd. Nothing serious, but still takes some pleasure out of driving

SouthernBoy

For 1st gear, are you talking about downshifting, shifting into first at a very low speed, or going into first from a dead stop? Tell me which it is and I can probably help you.

Thinkmoto

I just bought an 05 6MT TL for my wife. It had the 3rd gear popping out of gear issues. Took it to the dealer and had the 3rd gear gearset replaced under warranty. Ended up getting an alignment too while they where in there. So far so good. I'm happy with it, they where honest about it. The dealer knew the 6MT TL has 3rd gear issues and was prepared to tear into it.

Bogdan TL

It's going into 1st from a dead stop. I have to get past a little "opposition", like a "step". If I " double clutch" the second , third time it will go in without a problem. Again, I'm comparing the force needed to shift to the lat MT cars I drove ( WW Jetta, Opel Corsa, Citroen BX).
The GM sychromesh did help ( 3rd gear still has a "catch", but i'd say it's 60% better). But it kind'a sucks, it should be very smooth, it takes away from the pleasure of having a manual.
My car back in Europe ( 1986 Citroen BX 1.9 Diesel) was shifting sooo smooth, no trans oil changes ever.
That's why I'm a little disappointed in the TL

SouthernBoy

Well you can't double clutch when the car is not in motion, so that one's out.

This is what I recommend to do and is what I do nearly all the time when shifting into first gear when stationary. Say you are at a light and it turns yellow for the cross traffic. Instead of depressing the clutch and shifting into first gear right away, start your shift into third gear and then go into first. This should result in a smooth first gear insertion.

08TL-S

Bought a brand new 08 last year and had shifting problems from the start. Very notchy, hard to go into 3rd gear...Dealer fixed 3rd gear synro and 4th sleeve. Then had the same problem with 4th gear and reverse. It was like I had to sit in the back seat and kick it out of reverse. Since I am a female I was told I didn't know how to drive! Since this time I have had all the gears replaced...It still does not shift in any of the gears. Does not matter if the car is cold or hot. The Dealer wanted me to put Amsoil in it but if something would happen it is not an Acura product and wouldn't be covered under warranty. Any recommendations? I love to drive the car - it handles great even if I am a girl!

powerflow

Change the MT fluid. Honda MTF is not the best stuff out there, pretty obvious even some dealers suggest to swap the fluid. Many manual transmission owners, Honda or not, have used this fluid for years, the GM Syncromesh, Friction Modified, manual trans fluid. It's good fluid for the money. Just swap the fluid and don't ever tell the dealer since it's a gray area between dealer to dealer. About 95% of the 3G TL's with this same problem has swapped to this fluid with great results, on this website. Sounds like your case is more on the extreme side, but the GM SM fluid is better than the Honda MTF, no doubt.

Any GM dealer parts center should have it in stock.

NCTL05

iTrader: (9)

Bogdan TL- Did you buy the car at an Acura Dealership? If you did then you could have some leverage for them to fix it. Especially if it was certified pre-owned.

Recalls are for things that could go wrong with the car and kill you. There is no argument at the dealership to get that fixed. TSB's are for customer complaints of things that may go wrong that don't neccessarily need to be fixed.

The 3rd gear problem is a TSB and is up to the discretion of the service department if they will fix it. If you have a warranty they might just do it anyways. If not, then ask for a "good will" consideration and try to deal with them. Maybe they'll only charge for labor or something like that.

In my opinion a new gearset is the way to go. Your syncros might be going bad and the fluid is delaying the inevitable.

I bought a 6mt TL in Nov. at an Acura dealership w/52,000miles and noticed a week later that 3rd gear was popping itself out of gear and not me. It got worse so I took it back and they replaced the gearset. It feels perfect and smooth now even with the honda fluid. I was going to change to the GM stuff, but there is no point to now. It works great. The tech I spoke to said he had done dozens of these replacements. That tells me he was very experienced in performing the TSB and that it is not an uncommon problem.

SouthernBoy

Interesting how some TL's, (perhaps most?) have managed to escape these problems with 3rd and popping out of gear and difficult insertion. My '04 manual TL has never had even one hint of a problem in any one of its seven gears.. not one of any kind or any description. Even what many would consider common in any manual, tougher shifter movement in extreme cold, has never entered my transmission. This morning it was 11.0 degrees outside and 23 degrees in my garage and the tranny was just as smooth and effortless as can be.

Maybe I got lucky.. the car was built during the first week of July, 2004. The transmission continues to operate as one would both expect and appreciate. Yes, I have been using the GMSFM fluid since the first drain and fill, but not because of any problems. Just because I wanted a better fluid in my box and Honda's product (at the time) was not anywhere up to the quality of the GM stuff.

Were I to keep this car long enough, I would expect to see 300,000+ miles out of the clutch assembly and God knows how many more miles than that out of the transmission.

SouthernBoy

The part number is 12377916 and it runs over $12 per quart. A drain and fill requires 2.3 quarts which is 2 quarts, 10 ounces (rounded).

mmade22

Over time the GM syncromesh will get smoother the more you drive it. I never shift into first until the car is at a dead stop. It's really not good for the tranny to do that. The weather has a lot to do with it. I see that you are in IL so that could be a factor. Did you ever think about changing your clutch fluid?

ssmtl2nv

iTrader: (2)

GM fluid ftw...

robxc80

i dont know why everyone trys to go around the problem and simply recommend changing the transmission fluid.

Acura will replace your third gear syncrho...i took mine in for the 3rd gear problem and they simply said that its a common problem and they'll fix it free of charge...

im sure synchromesh works, but if you are going to change the transmission fluid at all, do it after you get the dealership to change out the 3rd gear...

csmeance

people go around since the dealer tries to save money and use inexperienced techs to fix the issue. During re-assembly 2nd 4th or reverse gear gets messed up.

quicksilver10101

Does anyone have a suggestion for a good dealer in the NY/Long Island area? I would like to get the TSB done but as csmeance says I don't need a inexperienced tech fiddling with my tranny.

mmade22

^^Go to your local GM dealer and put in GM syncromesh and call it a day...............

powerflow

It took Honda a long, long time to address this issue with a TSB. They've had this intermittent problem on their 6 speed trans since '02 or something. Most people, the problem is slight, and intermittent. The fluid swap works, and was started years and years ago. There is room for error when taking your car to the dealer, dropping, and opening up the trans. Basically if the issue is bad, worse case, take it to the dealer, if not, like most of us the swap works great, and improves the overall feel of the gear box. However, if you use a trusted, top notch dealer, go for it.

csmeance

go to your dealer and talk to your usual service advisor. Ask them to speak to the tech. that will be performing the work if you do go ahead with it. Go to the tech and ask him his position, how many of these he has done before, etc. and as well be sure to tell him to take his time and not rush it. After telling him/her that, saying a joke like where's that extra screw supposed to go will lighten the mood and make everyone a bit happier.

SouthernBoy

Downshifting to first gear will not do any damage to the transmission or clutch assembly nor will it cause any undue wear, as long as it is performed correctly. This means do not do this at any sort of "speed" and make sure you double clutch your downshift properly. Do this and you'll be Ok.

DMZ

End of story..........

mmade22

That pretty much says exactly what I said. Shifiting into first from about 10 mph will effect the transmission over time. Thats why I suggested to not get in the habit of shifting into first until the car comes to rest or at least under 5 mph. You can clearly feel it in the shift lever that it just doesn't feel right. People can do what ever they want. I have owned many cars all manuals with no clutch or transmission issues.

SouthernBoy

You can do a 10 MPH downshift to first gear safely as long as you double clutch. However, I don't see the sense in it simply because at that speed, second would be the better choice. As for feeling it in the shifter, what you are referring to is forcing a shift into first at a speed where the synchronizers are really having to work to match shaft speeds. This imparts undue wear on them and results in the resistance to the shift which you mentioned. Double clutching your shift will completely eliminate this if done correctly.

I'm not at all disagreeing with your assessment since I reserve shifts into first gear when either stopped or at very low speeds. And whenever I am moving and do this, I always double clutch... I do that anyway regardless of what gear I am downshifting into and at what speed I am traveling. It's just the correct way to do this.

AcPimpin

iTrader: (2)

i am going to have to try this because my gear shifting is iffy too. my integra shifted better.

Bogdan TL

All I have to say is that the 3rd is not popping out of gear after the fluid swap, but the shifting quality is crap. It's la having a stone in your shoe. Small, you can still walk, but it's there and it's bothering you. Takes ALL the pleasure out of driving.
I've come to the conclusion that Acura does NOT know how to make transmissions. I've had a '99 TL, '03 TL-S. All had grabby automatic trannys, and a history of model failures. Now THIS. I've lived my first 24 yrs in Europe with german,french, italian and all other sorts of manuals. The KNOWN fact is a manual does not need maintenance. Trouble free, not even oil changes necessary. Now this Acura TL is killing me. Forget about 270 HP, if the tranny is crap...
And no , I did not buy it from an Acura Dealer, so I don't think it qualifies for the TSB

apnorm

iTrader: (3)

I bought my car new and ran into the same 3rd gear problem. Finally replaced with GM Synchro at around 13k miles and 46k miles later I'm still happy.

Does anyone know how often you need to replace your transmission fluid?

SouthernBoy

I've heard a number of change intervals when it comes to manual transmission fluid. I've heard every two years, every 30,000 miles, every 50,000 miles, and I'll bet more. I changed mine recently at around the same mileage you have on your GM fluid. It came out almost pristine in color, but then again, that is no guarantee that the components of the fluid are in A1 condition, though I would bet they were. So I would think that every 50,000 miles after the first change (since that is when you will get most of the garbage out) is probably Ok for normal use.

apnorm

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Southern!

elchapo

i used penzoil syncromesh from autozone and it fixed my 3rd hear issue it gm certified

6spdtl-s

iTrader: (1)

completely false. Honda is known for making a very reliable manual tranny. The s2k tranny is one of the best trannys in the world. period. no 3rd gear issues there.

mn2trance

^ Not true. Some have experienced that problem on the S2K as well just like some people have never experienced the 3rd gear issue in the TL.

http://s2000.com/forums/engine-tech-...hy-clunky.html

My problem used to be with 3rd gear until the GM fluid change. Now, whenever it's cold out, second feels a little notchy and doesn't feel like it's catching the teeth that well until the engine has warmed up. I'll have to try out this hypothesis when it's time for another fluid change.