We took my GF's car to Montano in ABQ and they agreed to replace the 3rd gear set as per the TSB. I ask them if they would try the GM tranny fluid first and I was told absolutely not; they would rather replace the 3rd gear set eventhough they have never done one before. This was after they told me they could do nothing unless it did the same thing on there test drive; well it did nothing but they agreed to replace anyway so there must be some wiggle room there somewhere.

The 3rd gear has consistently been hard to get into gear and pops out of gear randomly since the PO bought the car new. It has never popped out of gear on me (in limited driving) but has been difficult to engage at times; it has popped out of 3rd 3 times on my GF in just a couple thousand miles of driving. The GM tranny fluid has not been tried; the only thing they ever did was drain and flush the tranny at 4K. The PO's service records prove that the problem was documented and complained consistently about since 4K.

Anyone had this procedure done before? What to look out for? Any tips much appreciated.........

 

Yes, there is a bunch of info about this on these forums. Just search and you will find a wealth of data. FWIW, my '04 manual has never had any of these reported problems; none. Any it has just under 80,100 miles on it. I did switch to the GMSFM fluid, part #12377916, at the 15,500 mile mark, but not because I was having problems. It's just a much better manual transmission fluid.

As for letting a dealer's shop go into my gear box.... Nope, ain't gonna happen. You could try the GM juice first to see if that takes care of things, then if it doesn't, do a drain and fill with the Honda fluid and take it in for service.

 

Interested also. Have a 2004 and a 2008 both manuals. When I drive the 08 a few times third popped out at the time of shift if I was very casual about engaging. If I put a little thought into it it is not an issue.

 

My third gear issue wasnt persistent. Sometimes I would feel it not go in gear. but it did not happen all the time.
My mom used the car to go to the library and when she came back, she mentioned 3rd gear.

once in a blue moon it would pop out.

I changed my clutch on 11/5/10 and had the shop use GMSFM fluid. My clutch, and 3rd gear feels solid.

I'll let my mom drive again, and see what she says.

 

What is GMSFM fluid? I have had problems engaging 3rd gear and it has popped out of 1st several times. I have put in Redline MTL. Does the GMSFM work better?

 

General Motors Synchromesh Friction Modified fluid is a manual transmission fluid that is superior to most other, if not all, fluids for use in the Honda manual transmissions. Some folks on these forums refer to it as the magic juice. You might wish to try it just to see how it works for you.

http://paceperformance.com/images/F15183077.gif

 

I think there is 2 different ones. Both bottles look the same too. But one says Friction Modified. Get that one. It worked for me like a charm. 50 000km and not a single problem

 

Yes we are very unsure about having the dealer do this TSB. The concern is if we wait the warranty runs out next summer. Has anyone actually had this done?

 

try the GMSFM first

 

It's funny youre dealer wont use this. When I bought my s2k back in 00', The dealer knew i'd go out to the drag strip with the mechanics at the dealer. The swapped my tranny fluid for GM synchromesh and they swapped out the diff fluid. They went to the chevy dealer. I asked why. They explained to get the best stuff on the market to protect your ass when auto-x'g/drag racing.

 

The TSB is not affected by your warranty. It is a TSB. Therefore, you could try the GMSFM and see if that works for you. If not, then you could consider taking advantage of the TSB.

 

Yep. And if the dealer is out of the GMSFM fluid and tries to sell you the "standard" juice, walk out and go to another GM dealer or order it online.

It's part #12377916.

 

I got my 3rd gear fixed at the dealer last year. Shifts perfect everytime now. never popped out like before. I am using the oem acura tranny fluid. no band aid fluids in there.

 

It's not a band-aid when the factory stuff sucks so bad.

I've seen too many cars including my own get one small problem fixed and then have 10 more serious issue because the mechanic didn't do the work right. I would go for the fluid swap.

 

Amen to that. I was in PM mode with another member who had a new clutch installed a little while back and suddenly his pedal would just hang on the floor as though the return spring was broken. Come to find out, the mechanic at the dealer's shop didn't secure the hydraulic line to the release fork and fluid leaked out.

I would rather pay a private shop I trust than to take my car into a dealer's service shop, except for certain conditions/things. And even those would have me sweating bullets.

 

Yea I cant believe the dealer wont try the fluid change. JeffW123 did they replace the 3rd gear synchros per the TSB?

 

yup they did. its been all smooth from then on. no complaints at all. zero extra problems.

 

Thank you so much for your advise. It started to improve during my initial test drive. It has been a week, and my issues are gone. What is in that stuff, and why hasn't Honda formulated a similar product? Anyway, Thanks.

 

I'm pleased you are having the same results as almost everyone else who has used this product... and thanks for reporting them, too.

As for your question I bolded; good question. The really sad thing is the fact that Honda/Acura had, or allowed, a bad third gear synchronizer set and the other component which at the moment escapes my mind, to make its way into their manual transmissions in the first place. Either poor quality control, or a decision to go with cheaper parts. Who knows. Honda has had a history of transmission problems for at least the past twenty years of one kind or another, with both their manuals and their automatics. One would think they'd put this to bed rather quickly.

As I mentioned above, my '04 has never had any of these third gear problems, or any problems of any kind, clutch or transmission related. More and more I am thinking the reason is due to the manner in which I operate a manual transmission (those who know me on this site know how I do these things). In a "normal" manual vehicle, this may not manifest itself very much at all.. at least for the first 100,000 miles or so. But due to third gear problems that Honda/Acura has been having in these cars, I suspect that most people who do not operate a manual as I have described in many posts are running into these problems because what they are doing exacerbates the issue and accelerates the problem(s). So I got lucky maybe?

 

Now I'm in debates with myself on this topic.

Dealer said they'd replace my third gear set; they wouldn't change tranny fluid with NEW Honda tranny fluid on goodwill as it's a "maintenance item"; they'd rather replace the 3rd gear set.

I don't know how comfortable I feel letting a tech (not knowing if he's done this before) tear apart my tranny or just switching to GM Syncromesh Fluid myself.

 

Good point, you don't want to drive away with more problems down the road.
Ask for someone thats done trany work before, even though you mentioned that the dealer has never done the 3d gear TSB before.

Or just go on blind faith, I would get it swapped out, but ask for the "old" parts back, and then switch to GM synchromesh.

 

It's sort of like with the 5at. There's a fluid out there along with switch replacement that completely eliminates 5at failures yet Honda just ignores it.

 

I know you and others have spoke of this for the automatic a number of times, but can you enlighten me again with this one? My "other 3G TL is an '04 automatic and I would like to have this information available should I need it. That car now has over 70,000 miles on it.

 

Are you talking about just having them do it (replace 3rd gear set) and then switch to GM Synchromesh thereafter??

 

We have found 2 things that cause trans failures on the 3g (and most 2gs).

First is the fluid. Honda Z1 is loaded with friction modifiers for soft shifts. This reduces the clutch holding power. So basically Honda puts more emphasis on comfort than wear.

Second is the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches. These cheap switches are responsible for most of the 2g failures over the years and all of the 3g "third gear" issues including harsh shifts, shudder, and rough downshifts.

What most of us have been running is Ford Type F fluid, specifically the Redline "racing" fluid. This has no friction modifiers, it's as far frictionally from Z1 as you can get.

This gives crisp quick positive shifts. The tach falls instantly to the next gear. The best part is you don't feel them. Maybe it's the DBW, I don't know but even the shift quality as perceived by the driver is MUCH better than new.

The switches get rid of the harsh shifting and the eventual shudder from the clutches trying to slip. Downshifts become quicker yet softer. The slop on upshifts disappears. The "double bump" when you go from park to drive disappears or almost disappears in some cases.

What I've found is the TL practically comes from the factory with a "bump shift". The clutches begin to apply but slip throughout the shift until they finally lock in all at once. Honda really screwed up on this one. In the search for better shifts, they ended up with harsher shifts and a ton of wear on each shift.

The "double bump" and delay when shifting into drive is the trans hitting 3rd gear and then first gear. This normal and is supposed to soften the engagement but as the switches age and the pressure points change, it stays in 3rd too long before hitting first.

After doing the switches and most importantly the fluid, the magnet has NOTHING on it. The fluid stays bright red, there's no clutch material to be found.

These mods were all it took for Bert's 400whp TL to hold up just fine. At well over 100,000 miles it took the 400whp great and shifts were quick and crisp.

Here's the original switch thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...+trans+builder

Here's the racing fluid thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ght=racing+atf

If I had known about the fluid I literally would've taken the car home when brand new and swapped fluid so I could have saved all of this wear from day one. Luckily I used a DexIII fluid (somewhere in between Z1 and type-F frictionally).

I recommend you do this asap, you won't believe the difference. Since the Redline racing fluid is about 30% thicker at operating temp than Z1, you can mix with Redline lightweight racing which is about 30% lighter than Z1 for the desired viscosity. I'm running 100% racing and no issues.

The switches need to be done every 3 years or 50,000 miles. Time seems to be just as important as mileage.

I just cured a '99 TL with the fluid and switches. It had a flare so bad between 2-3 and 3-4 that I told my friend he was probably wasting his money. The shifts would take about 1.5 seconds and rpms would flare by 1,500rpm or more. Amazingly it shifts like a new car. It's sad that some uneducated redneck like myself can come up with this and Honda just replaces entire transmissions for 10 years straight.

Sorry this is kind of sloppy, I only had a couple minutes to write it before dinner.

 

My dealer switched my s2000 tranny fluid to this back when it was brand new. My dealer drove to chevy dealer and bought it themselves. They also used their diff fluid too. This was back in 2000 btw so Honda has know, they just want you to buy their products.

 

Exactly

PS

Im using the Penzoil GM Synchromesh, so its the one without the LSD Friction modifier, doesn't feel as viscous as the latter but stil feels great, and its half the cost for those who care to save ~$15-$20 total.

 

Wow, I'm impressed.... and still a bit confused. Thanks so much for all of this info. I'm going to do a little research and will most likely have a few more questions, if you don't mind. I know next to nothing about automatic transmissions, but I do wish to ward off any potential problems my wife's '05 might have down the road.

Thanks. I'll get back I'm sure.

 

Ask away.

To sum it up, the stock fluid and bad switches cause lots of clutch slippage and reduced holding power.

Basically, all gears are always in mesh with one another all the time. The auto applies and releases different clutch packs to select a gear. Ideally you want one clutch pack to come off at the exact time the other is applying. If the timing is wrong you get a flare or a bind and wear.


Automatic clutches aren't designed to slip, shifts should be measured in miliseconds. If you can cut shift time in half, you cut wear in half.

Just 1-2 seconds of slip can ruin the clutch face. The friction modifiers in the Z1 are basically "slipperiness" additives to make the clutches engage slower and they also reduce holding power of the clutches. It's like in a manual you slip it too much all the time and apply constant pressure to the clutch to reduce the holding capacity. Eventually you're going to wear it out prematurely.

 

The newly reformulated Honda MT fluid is 'Supposedly' similar. But why bother? ALL 6MTers should just put in the GM stuff like almost everyone else here and FUGHETTABOUTIT!
.
.

 

Are these solutions only for the Automatic Transmission? What about Manuals? DO they have switches that need to be replaced or is it only the fluid?

 

No, and I am primarily at fault here for leading this thread off topic. The OP started the thread with questions/concerns about his manual transmission. The manual has no such switches; that discussion is only for the automatic.

As far as the fluid mentioned, we are talking about General Motors Synchromesh Friction Modified (GMSFM) fluid for our manual transmissions.. It has been proven time and again to alleviate most, if not all, problems involving difficulty to complete shifts, popping out of gear, and grinding. The worse cases of this are better off having the TSB performed, and perhaps even those which are less than worse but are chronic.

 

I'm the guilty one of taking this off topic. If you want, PM me. I'm interested in hearing how you like the fluid and switches in your auto TL.

 

When I get a little time, I'll do some more research but again, thanks so much for your information. I am certain I will have some more questions. Perhaps I'll start a thread because it appears our discussion has generated some interest so others might like to hear what is said.

 

Updates on how it's running OP?

 

We have not had the warranty work done yet; matter of fact the dealer has not even called us back to say they have the parts in yet. I was just putting this out there to see what other experiences others have had. Evidently only one person that I know has had this done. Makes us a little uneasy; I might try the GM fluid myself first but it will be spring before I do that. Our warranty ends in June 2011. Lets get this thread back to the 6MT.................

 

So this fluid is all I need for my 08 Tl-s MT? It very rarely misses when engaging but it is annoying when it does.

 

Hi... I bought an 06 Acura TL from the dealer lot last May. I have the same issue with my 6 sp std that it pops out of 3rd. I have 64k on this... is there a TSB that is covered by the dealter that can fix this? What is it that they need to do? Thank you..... Andy

 

^did you guys not read anything in this thread? Also try searching as this so called problem has been documented here on acurazine for at least 4 years or more.

Use the GM syncromesh friction modified fluid, and it will solve all your problems.

 

So since the weather has turned much colder the tranny is getting harder to get into gear. Seems a lot more notchy than before. Granted temps have been from -15F at night to 15F during the day the last few days but I am hoping that changing the fluid will help in the wintertime. Anyone else have this experience in these extreme negative temps?