DerrickW

I spent some time surfing old threads tonight just for the heck of it & ran across more than one where newbies asked the typical "I have x dollars to spend what should I do for max bang-for-my-buck?" type questions and in several places guys recommend upgrading to aftermarket motor mounts. I've got an 07 Type-S that I'm slowly adding upgrades to and contemplating my next expenditure. I'm not mechanically inclined much past changing my own oil and other low-level type maintenance ....not like you guys who tear down & rebuild engine blocks, etc. I just don't get how improved mounts can result in improved power production. Anyone mind spending a few minutes explaining what may be 101 to you, to the ignorant?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

oem mounts are rubber. which over time, tears and deforms.. it doesnt take much to tear or deform as the engine torques or moves in place.
if you have ever seen bad motor mounts, you'll see the engine move BIG time.
my engine was moving SO bad that it was breaking the welds on my aftermarket exhaust pipe. yes, the engine bucked back and forth with such force that it broke welds.

the XLR8 mounts use polyurethane with different types of hardness. a harder polyurethane will not allow the engine to move. thus you can put down more power. and that's the goal, to allow LESS movement so that your wheels can lay down the power.

especially with the 6MT, as you can control the power going through the engine, you dont want the engine to be bucking.
in racing there's this saying...."smoother is faster"
cant be fast if the car is not smooth and laying down the power efficiently.

same thing like wheel hop.
wheel hop is bad!
if you get wheel hop, it means you are not laying down the power efficiently. and you're losing power by wheel hopping.


also, Google can explain it WAAAAAAAAAAY better than I can...
it's fairly easy to google...
"why do we need engine mounts"
"why are engine mounts important"

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

it's all about transferring of energy, so that the engine's horsepower can directly translate to the wheels.
you've heard of drivetrain loss, right?
engine mounts are apart of that drivetrain loss formula

DerrickW

Makes sense. Thanks, mang. Is a simple eyeball test just to have someone rev the engine while in neutral and watch it for excess movement. I live at 6000+ ft. above sea level - very, very dry here and this place is notorious for being hard on rubbers and plastics

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

you have to take off the covers of the OEM mounts to visually check. a visual check of the mounts will tell you all you need...either torn and broken or intact

the way the OEM mounts are designed, it is allowed to have play..so, I dont think revving the motor will give you any clues, unless all three (side, front and rear) are absolutely gone...the engine isnt supported and will rock back and forth



also, over time polyurethane will deform and donut as well. it's the way Honda developed mounts for this engine that eats them.
in some other cars, engine mounts are more cleverly designed which are more stout.

TacoBello

I'm willing to bet that if they're original, they're failing to some degree by now. They might not be as bad as Justin's, but they will eventually get there. The vendors on here sell good quality aftermarket mounts for a pretty good price ($300ish)

OEM mounts are way more expensive and will not last nearly as long. Plus, the aftermarket ones look way more sexy

they're on my to do list also.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

i am hard on my car, some might call it abuse


also be sure to have torque wrench and torque values at hand. I cant tell you how many mounts ive stripped........very soft aluminium

Yvuru

im no expert on this but this my understanding of why improved mounts can result in improved power production

when you hit the gas the engine spins one way and the drivetrain spins the other direction. this is how the power gets put down to the wheels. when motor mounts are worn or have gone bad the engine will move around in the engine bay. this is a problem because there is a delay/reduction in power to the drivetrain as the engine moves around in the engine bay. with upgraded motor mounts the engines movement is limited (or there is none) and therefore power is sent to the drivetrain right away. this creates better delivery of power or throttle response. the car will definitely "drive" better with upgraded motor mounts.

with that being said the luxury aspect of the TL is taken away with these type motor mounts. i have the innovative mounts (new version) for 2 years now and i deal with my cabin shaking every day. the upgraded mounts mount the engine more solidly to the chassis which brings NVH that can be felt in the cabin. the OEM mounts are made of rubber and eat up the vibrations, however the mounts go bad.

this is definitely a mod that i will not recommend to anyone. it officially turned my car from luxury sedan into project car. i deal with it because i dont have to replace the mounts ever again. the car drives awesome as well. at red lights the car shakes (effect is more dramatic with ac/heat on) and the shaking can be heard from inside/outside of the car.

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

A good balance is to replace the front and side with the stiffer mounts and leave rear oem. I've had all stiff mounts previously and the vibration is 10x more with the rear mount upgraded also (so much I had to line my dash-windshield interface with foam and was embarrassed to drive people in my car when the ac was running). I currently just run rear with oem and the rear with the stiff ones (75a gerzand inserts in the xlr8 mount). Perfect balance of performance with some luxury still

treal512

Typo? Or did I misunderstand?

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

^ meant front and side with stiff ones. Rear oem (first sentence of my post above)

DerrickW

Wow, has this thread resulted in some useful info & inputs. Thanks everyone. $300'ish...a piece or for the set?

DerrickW

Well this is somewhat terrifying. My 'couldn't care less just gimme faster' days are behind me know. I LOVE the balance of luxury/sport that my TL-S gives me. Turning the ride into something comparable to a go-kart is definitely NOT in the cards.

TacoBello

300ish for the set. You get the three (or is it four?) engine mounts for that price. Either way, you get all the engine mounts needed. I don't believe there are any aftermarket transmission mounts though.

Also, it depends what firmness you get for the mounts. If you stick to the 62a or 65a mounts (the softest ones) they are only a bit firmer than stock. They are meant for daily driving purposes and from the reviews I've read on AZ, they do not introduce a ton of new NVH to the car. Minimal at best. Not like "ugh, my luxury car is now a track car and my fillings will rattle out of my teeth"

The above review you commented on seems to be not a common response. He also didn't state which mounts he bought. Looking at innovative's site, their softest mounts are what other brands sell as their track mounts. Makes sense why he isn't happy. 75a mounts are not really DD suitable mounts.

again, stick to 62a or 65a, and you'll be happy.

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

62a/65a still has LOTS of vibrations if you put the rear one in. there is very little difference between 62/65 and 75 (i've had both) if you put in the rear one.
that's why i keep saying just put in aftermarket front and side to get the best of both worlds. i can't tell you how much it vibrates with the A/C on if you put in the rear mount, it's crazy

i currently run 75a front and side xlr8 mounts (gerzand's beefier inserts not the xlr8 inserts) and oem rear

TacoBello

Maybe they gave you the 75a rear mount, with the 62a/65a kit, by accident?

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

haha def not because i bought the entire 62a/65a kit and had those all installed for a while, plus different durometers are different colors.

then a year later after my front xlr8 mount was completely shredded (yes it can still happen!), i bought gerzand's heavy duty 75a inserts (different design) to go into the xlr8 mount. at that same time i was putting in the 75a inserts, i removed the rear mount from xlr8 to oem because i was embarrassed to turn on the AC whenever someone was in the car due to vibrations (my TL is my daily). so i personally know which ones i put in haha

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I hate you, David....
Adding Andy's mounts to the ever growing mod list

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

lol I'm pretty sure I've added like 3-5 things to your mod list in 2017. You'll thank me later!!

Yvuru

im using the 60a innovative mounts front,side,rear. 60a mounts do not feel like oem. they are so different in NVH, that it would be like an apples to oranges comparison

314_04TL

Andy's Motor mounts????? Anything with this mans stamp of approval is like crack. Need the info for whoever has it?

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

they are just the inserts that go into the xlr8 mounts. I bought the last of his but I don't know if he has molded more since then. They have a larger bearing surface area to distribute the load better. Just hit him up and see if he's made any more

314_04TL

Awesome thank you

Bense

$300 for polyurethane mounts? lol

I wouldn't spend more than $100 on a set.

DMZ

I wouldn't use polyurethane mounts because a lot of the engine vibration gets transferred to the passenger compartment. Go with an OEM type, and continue to enjoy the luxury of your car! Check ebaY and rockauto.
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