Ok so a co-worker of mine has a 04 TL that he says he bought it and it was stock... I own a 05 Reflashed STi puting out 275AWHP and 301AWTQ and we did couple rolls from 45-90 and I slightly moved on him maybe a half car lenght. I don't know what he has and neither does he but what would he need to put out that much WHP? He is bringing his car to work on Monday for me to check it out and take it for a test drive.

 

It should not have been that close as.... The STi is 300lbs lighter than the TL (3,351 and 3,636 respectively) and the stock TL only puts out 212HP (manual) so the difference should be significantly more than that. In order to be equal in RWHP, he should need (1) a super charger + tuning (around $5K to $6K) and then there is still the weight difference to be compensated for which could be done with pulleys and cats (around another $1,500 or so).

 

Sounds like he had a good driver mod. j/k - I've seen some really fast cars driven very slow, and some low powered cars driven very fast. When you raced him, were you in the gear you wanted to be in, or did you downshift right before you gunned it? Ideally, you would want to be in the gear that puts the rpms the highest when you start. I've started races from a roll at 6K. Granted, you have to shift quick after you hit the gas, but it gives you a better jump than being in the next gear.

 

hahah after the first OP's sentence, i though he was here doing some recon work since he only has one post and his name has Scout in it. hahahaha

lets think about this for a sec.
i know the TL is heavier, but at a rolling start from 45-90, 300 lb isnt that much of a difference. its a huge diff off the line, pick up speed from a dead stop, and traction are the major problems.

TL's are pretty quick when were already moving, the gear ratios are pretty good (correct me if im wrong)

 

300lbs and at least 20 whp is a big difference. That STI should walk away. I was barely able to stay with one on some back country twisties, and only cause I would push it harder than he would.

 

Nitrous.

 

Acceleration is NOT about horsepower. HP is NOT the determent factor in how quickly a vehicle accelarates. Hell, a motorcycle has perhaps 100 HP and your TL has 250 HP.... so, your TL should smoke the motorcycle right ? Of course not.

The thing that dictates accelaration is the weight to power ratio (Lbs/HP). So many people get "caught up" in just one side of the equation, the horsepower variable, while being completely oblivious to the other variable, the weight.

Long live the TL Diet !!!!

 

the TL does do good in long runs and it pulls in 2nd gear
~Jason

 

my car beats a evo 9 MR stock, from a roll all the time...
~Jason

 

I would say rocket booster. Its funny that people keep thinking this car is fast.

Im not saying it cant hold its own, but comparatively speaking, its really not that fast..

unless you spends assloads of cash.. but I guess that can be said about any car....

 

trying to push your TL eh'? that thing is gona end up in a ditch somewhere lol

im going to stick to racing v6 chargers and ford 500's and the occasional v6 mustang but not a freaking car fast enough to go with lambos thats just stupid.

 

a shotgun. a driver. and a good lawyer. bwahahaha.

 

You should go from a dig, should be a COMPLETELY different story. Especially if his is an auto.


Or there's always the alternative, he got a freak car. In that case, BASTARD

 

Not certain where your getting your info but an STi can NOT hang with Lambo's. They have some low-end benefits due to high HP-to-weight ratios but are comparative DOGS at anything above 80MPH. I ran against stage 3 STi's in my prior car (CLK55 AMG, 0-to-sixty in 4.9 stock) and they could get (very minor) a jump out of the hole but they lacked the Umph above 80MPH and would typically simply start falling back at that point. But I do agree, the TL is not a "performance car" that should be out there challenging STi's for runs. It's simply not "that fast" unless you add the S/C (even then it's only "mildly quick" IMHO).

 

I agree with you there. I have a 99 Mits. Eclipse GSX with enough modds to hang with STi's and EVO's. The turbo is only good for an initial jump. After that, they don't have much for stamina. With that being said, I've raced a few car's that from just looking at them smoke a TL. The out come is always different.

 

I had an evo(even stock) and it does not compare to my TL at all (evo wins every day). He should smoke you from a 45-90 roll given he knows how to drive and shift.

 

Then you woke up.

 

exactly.

 

I don't know about that. I had a guy in an 06 EVO harass me for a couple minutes straight. I could care less about racing the TL but I floored it to get the guy off of me. To my surprise, we were dead even so I decided to stay in it. I was trying not to laugh when I started to inch away from him at 100mph. When I let off with almost a full carlength, he flew by and at that point I couldn't help but laugh uncontrollably.

Look at the trap speeds of both cars. They're close enough that driver or atmospheric conditions, or tune could make a difference. I own both a turbo and a NA car and the heat is a real killer on the turbo car, much more than the TL. Plus the AWD hurts them from a roll. In a real drag race from a stop, the EVO would kill the TL. I've had trouble with them in the GN in a 0-40mph stop sign to stop sign race.

 

are you crazy? how can you compare the weight diff between a TL and STI to a motorcycle and a TL.

I used to ride. I like how you compare things that don't make sense. did you even read what i wrote?

 

A supercharged TL should keep up with an EVO no problem from a roll. He wouldn't be the first.

 

You were probably in third, otherwise he has no chance, because at 45mph in 2nd gear, you're at what 5,000rpms? So that's close to full boost.

Oh and by the way, to ndubunka, I thought the TL was 3465, with a M/T and 3545 with an A/T, and the '07 TL A/T was 3645. I could be wrong, but I hope I'm not, 3645 is really heavy.

 

Well we re-raced did 3 rolls and 1 dig.

1st roll at 55 3rd gear I did get him by a car length.

2nd roll from 60mph in 4th gear I got him by 3 car lengths by time i shifted into 5th.

3rd was from a dig, we all know how that goes with AWD =) 0-60 I left him about 4 car lengths behind.

4th was in 2nd from 30-80 I got him by about 3 car lenghts even tho he WoT'd it about sec b4 he counted to 3.

No clue what was wrong b4 lol, I know right now I my trunk is empty and b4 I had lots of heavy stuff for my work. I also put ice cubes in my I/C Sprayer b4 the race =) and recently changed my transmission and diff fluids.

Anyways here is my DYNO if anyone wants to take a look

 

A stock evo yes.

 

A stock TL will hang with an EVO from a roll... I've done it.

 

a big factor on racing on the street is ambient air temperature and elevation. not all cars perform the same everywhere else. cars with california emission standards are actually detuned to meet the strict CARB guidelines. the best time to race, is at night. the best place, is as close to sea level as possible. so one persons case of racing and beating an evo may actually be quite feasible depending on the conditions. and inaccurate is correct. hp to weight ratio is a big factor in how a car handles and performs. inaccurate's car as crazy as it may seem, is quite light compared to some of our other cars with our sound systems and all our amenities. his goal was the same as ours, but his approach as unorthodox as it may seem, is highly effective and quite drastic. perhaps even overboard to some of us. to each his own... i've read inaacurates complete diet post and a lot of the things hes done to his car, i've done to a pro-am integra. the difference is night and day. even to a restricted class car. there is no wrong party in this discussion, just different approaches. i've raced a gixxer 750 before in my dc5 (rsx-s) and once be got over 135, he just stopped pulling. in fact, i bet that a good driver can beat most bikes under 900cc on a prolonged top speed race in a performance minded car with at least 240 hp. just a matter of having the cojones to do such. ponder this for a minute... i've done research while taking class in my automotive class ten years ago... (just a theory in ideal situation) a 3hp lawnmower engine equipped with a one ton flywheel and a frictionless transmission would clear the quarter mile in a matter of one to two seconds. granted the motor could turn the flywheel to get it spinning to an undetermined rpm and the trans could handle such a shock and load. and the tires could provide such traction. the torque would of course twist the frame and other countless things would go wrong, but i said that this was an ideal situation... plus, how would you stop? anyway, hp isn't everything. torque isn't everything. weight isn't everything. it's how you put it all together. you can have a quarter mile dragster or a top speed monster, or a road course carver. but you can't have all three...

class dismissed. happy racing...

can't we all just get along???

 

^we can get along, if you use the ENTER button once in a while

 

California cars are not detuned...

A N/A car's best shot at beating a turbo car is at sea level on a hot day. Turbo cars barely fall off at altitude and N/A cars don't fall off as much with heat.

A 240 hp car will never stand a chance against a bike, not by a long shot unless the bike runs out of gear at 130mph or the car weighs 1,200lbs lol. I have my hands full with the 750s and I made 602rwhp (approaching 700hp at the crank) and weigh 3,300lbs.

 

you're right the cars aren't detuned, but the emission controls affect the a/f and the engine actually produces slightly less power. crank hp would be the same, wheel hp would have variations.

ambient air temp affects ALL cars... if not, why would we have cai power differences over sri?

btw, i took out a 750 with my dc5 (241whp n/a) at 155 mph on the freeway... i believe i did mention that we were going at it around 135... and this was a prolonged high speed race. oh did have a lot of catching up to do even when we started at 80...