UR Pulley personal opinion's
02-17-2010, 09:20 PM
#1
2006 6spd
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
UR Pulley personal opinion's
Hey every one i've been reviewing acurazine for a while but this is my very first post Hooray!!! I am considering buying the Unorthodox Racing under drive pulley, I've read pleanty of reviews mainly talking about the accessories not recieving enough power but no one talks about its performance, feel, or their personal opinion after installing it on their car any feedback will be much appreciated. Thanx!
02-17-2010, 09:37 PM
#2
Drifting
I don't have it, but I have heard of some members saying it is unsafe and not worth it, and most members saying it is safe and totally worth it. By replacing this one with the old one, you lose about 6-7lbs. and it frees up to 4 horses. I may be wrong on some of those numbers. You will most likely be able to tell a slight difference. The problem is installation is difficult. Also, if paired with a throttle body spacer, it will seem better. Hope this helps. It is a mod I am considering as my next.
02-18-2010, 06:31 AM
#4
Former Whyner
Yes please dont believe the its bad for your engine hype 
I have had this UR Stock Diameter on for 2 years or so and it's fine. Also on my integra for 5+ years.
Install can be tricky and i have seen and heard it all but if your dont have access to a lift i wouldnt even bother and just take it to a shop. I was charged $45 and it took maybe 20 mins. Also dont forget the Gates belt which im sure you read about.
And yes Josh (Excelerate) is correct i weighed the UR pully and it was 15oz and the stock pulley if i rememebr correct was almost 9lbs.
I have had this UR Stock Diameter on for 2 years or so and it's fine. Also on my integra for 5+ years.
Install can be tricky and i have seen and heard it all but if your dont have access to a lift i wouldnt even bother and just take it to a shop. I was charged $45 and it took maybe 20 mins. Also dont forget the Gates belt which im sure you read about.
And yes Josh (Excelerate) is correct i weighed the UR pully and it was 15oz and the stock pulley if i rememebr correct was almost 9lbs.
02-18-2010, 09:26 AM
#5
2006 6spd
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
ya everone seems to be 50/50 on the good and the bad, im glad to hear you've had it for a while thats kinda the opinions im looking for but hows the feel is there a difference from before and after are you happy with its performance...
02-18-2010, 09:42 AM
#7
2006 6spd
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
thats cool just let me know my e-mail is jbud4u@yahoo.com best way of contact, do you have a price in mind
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02-18-2010, 05:31 PM
#9
Drifting
Overall, I agree that it is SAFE for the car. But I would get the stock diameter one over the underdrive one. I thought I would never add a sub and an amp, but I did, and an underdrive won't be strong enough.
02-18-2010, 06:00 PM
#10
Pro
02-18-2010, 08:29 PM
#15
02-18-2010, 09:39 PM
#16
AM MT Navi
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You definitely want the stock size. It will not underdrive the accessories. It gives roughly 1hp less compared to the smaller size pulley. The only place to get the stock size pulley is from excelerate.
02-19-2010, 09:52 AM
#20
"Let's Do This"
Ever since the pulley was installed I have a whinning sound at the higher rpms. Nothing like a supercharger but it's sounds cool. I think it's normal bc alot of other people have the same sound. I have a 6spd if that make a difference. What is the belt size again for the light weight crank pulley?
02-19-2010, 11:03 AM
#21
Ever since the pulley was installed I have a whinning sound at the higher rpms. Nothing like a supercharger but it's sounds cool. I think it's normal bc alot of other people have the same sound. I have a 6spd if that make a difference. What is the belt size again for the light weight crank pulley?
02-19-2010, 06:02 PM
#22
Racer
I've had my UR underdrive pulley for over a year with absolutely no problems at all. It will NOT damage your engine as it is internally balanced. If your in to big amps and subwoofers, go for the stock diameter, otherwise get the underdrive size. My engine gets up in the revs so quickly now. Picked up several horsepower to the wheels too.
02-19-2010, 10:55 PM
#24
Safety Car
The pulley is not about HP gain. Thus, the dyno might not reflect a gain.
The pulley is about dynamic weight loss. The dynamic weight loss is equivalent to removing 100 lbs from the car. And, a 100-lb reduction in weight is good for 1/10 reduction (one car length) in your 1/4 mile ET. It is equivalent to adding 10 HP to the car in terms of the performance improvement.
Don't worry much about stock size or undersize. The gains come from the lightweight, not from the diameter.
The pulley is about dynamic weight loss. There is a weird, inexplicable phenomenon that happens when gaining performance via weight reduction. I can not explain how or why this phenomenon occurs! But from my experiences with removing weight from my car (from small chunks to big chunks), the phenomenon is real. When gaining performance improvements derived from weight reduction, you will feel *less* g-force after the weight reduction mod. Therefore, do not use the sensation of increased g-force (aka, Butt Dyno) to evaluate the performance improvements from the UR Pulley... it won't be there.
This inexplicable phenomenon is "at play" when people say "It revs-out quicker but doesn't feel quicker". I read this comment often in regards to the pulley. I agree that it does rev quicker. However, I do not agree with the attitude in which it is stated. It is implied that "yes, it revs quicker but the car is not quicker." Now, think about this for a second. How can the engine rev quicker without the car gaining the respective MPH too ??? The transmission gearing did Not change. It is quicker.
Do Not use the Butt Dynometer to measure the performance improvements from your TL Diet (click here)
The pulley is about dynamic weight loss. The dynamic weight loss is equivalent to removing 100 lbs from the car. And, a 100-lb reduction in weight is good for 1/10 reduction (one car length) in your 1/4 mile ET. It is equivalent to adding 10 HP to the car in terms of the performance improvement.
Don't worry much about stock size or undersize. The gains come from the lightweight, not from the diameter.
The pulley is about dynamic weight loss. There is a weird, inexplicable phenomenon that happens when gaining performance via weight reduction. I can not explain how or why this phenomenon occurs! But from my experiences with removing weight from my car (from small chunks to big chunks), the phenomenon is real. When gaining performance improvements derived from weight reduction, you will feel *less* g-force after the weight reduction mod. Therefore, do not use the sensation of increased g-force (aka, Butt Dyno) to evaluate the performance improvements from the UR Pulley... it won't be there.
This inexplicable phenomenon is "at play" when people say "It revs-out quicker but doesn't feel quicker". I read this comment often in regards to the pulley. I agree that it does rev quicker. However, I do not agree with the attitude in which it is stated. It is implied that "yes, it revs quicker but the car is not quicker." Now, think about this for a second. How can the engine rev quicker without the car gaining the respective MPH too ??? The transmission gearing did Not change. It is quicker.
Do Not use the Butt Dynometer to measure the performance improvements from your TL Diet (click here)
02-20-2010, 01:53 AM
#25
I have the stock sized ur pulley on my '05 tl. I noticed the difference but barely. It pulls slightly harder at the low end (about 2,500 rpm) and gives slightly better throttle response. For the $ I would skip it and go to a jpipe. Later I bought a rv6 v2 and it made a much bigger difference.
02-20-2010, 11:22 AM
#26
I have the stock sized ur pulley on my '05 tl. I noticed the difference but barely. It pulls slightly harder at the low end (about 2,500 rpm) and gives slightly better throttle response. For the $ I would skip it and go to a jpipe. Later I bought a rv6 v2 and it made a much bigger difference.
You will not "feel" a significant gain from the Pulley, but it will be there. Just like Innacurate said, the gain is from the dynamic weight loss. The Pulley has nearly the same gains as the J-pipe at the fraction of the price. You just don't feel it. Its almost like if you were going to take off your front, rear, and side bumpers to decrease weight. From that modification each 15LB would give you a "freed" 1HP. Just say your car was a standard base TL with 258 HP. Disregarding the loss through drivetrain and others, we'll say your 150 LBS, you would already lose 10 HP just because of you. Now if you had the pulley that weight would be reduced to 50 LB, thus, losing only 3-4 HP. 6-7 HP difference.
02-21-2010, 03:32 PM
#27
No I read it. Are you going to say you can't feel the difference when driving your car with five people in it vs just yourself?
The thread is about your personal opinion about the Pulley. I think it barely does anything.
The thread is about your personal opinion about the Pulley. I think it barely does anything.
02-22-2010, 12:42 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
Years ago I had a UDP on my VQ30 Maxima. The OEM Nissan pulley design is exactly like the OEM Acura pulley design, that means both are two pulleys sandwiched with an elastomer ring. The ring acts as a vibrational crank damper. On the other end of the engine is either a flywheel or torque converter and those parts act as dampers due to the sheer mass. The UDP on the VQ30 weighed 15 ozs and removed about 5.5lbs in pulley weight. I tested the UDP both on the dyno and drag strip. There was no change in power and the car was no quicker. It was, however, harder to launch due to the reduced moment of inertia and more NVH could be felt in the higher rpms because of the lack of damper.
ALL late model engines are internally balanced. The issue here is the explosive twisting forces placed on the rotating assembly. That force create certain order vibrations along the crank and that's what the OEM damper reduces. The vibrations can ultimately wreck engine bearings and basically your engine.
I've always found it amusing that so many on this site put faith in the quoted gains and science of the these UDPs. Show me just one dyno of a TL before and after the install of a UDP. Nothing exists. Nothing. Same goes for a 1/4 mile comparision. Nothing. Why buy into it if the claims can't be substaniated by 3rd party testing?
My recommendation: save your money until valid data is presented that a UDP actually works as advertized.
02-22-2010, 06:30 PM
#33
2006 6spd
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
I've always found it amusing that so many on this site put faith in the quoted gains and science of the these UDPs. Show me just one dyno of a TL before and after the install of a UDP. Nothing exists. Nothing. Same goes for a 1/4 mile comparision. Nothing. Why buy into it if the claims can't be substaniated by 3rd party testing?
My recommendation: save your money until valid data is presented that a UDP actually works as advertized.
well then why was it invented and why do so many members stand by it?
in my last msg i ment to say doese anything at all...
My recommendation: save your money until valid data is presented that a UDP actually works as advertized.
well then why was it invented and why do so many members stand by it?
in my last msg i ment to say doese anything at all...
02-22-2010, 08:22 PM
#34
Adding/removing rotational weight will most definitely show up on the dyno. Add 40lb wheels (drive wheels) in place of a 25lb set of wheels and you'll definitely see a difference in power. It's called drivetrain losses. They can be seen.
Years ago I had a UDP on my VQ30 Maxima. The OEM Nissan pulley design is exactly like the OEM Acura pulley design, that means both are two pulleys sandwiched with an elastomer ring. The ring acts as a vibrational crank damper. On the other end of the engine is either a flywheel or torque converter and those parts act as dampers due to the sheer mass. The UDP on the VQ30 weighed 15 ozs and removed about 5.5lbs in pulley weight. I tested the UDP both on the dyno and drag strip. There was no change in power and the car was no quicker. It was, however, harder to launch due to the reduced moment of inertia and more NVH could be felt in the higher rpms because of the lack of damper.
ALL late model engines are internally balanced. The issue here is the explosive twisting forces placed on the rotating assembly. That force create certain order vibrations along the crank and that's what the OEM damper reduces. The vibrations can ultimately wreck engine bearings and basically your engine.
I've always found it amusing that so many on this site put faith in the quoted gains and science of the these UDPs. Show me just one dyno of a TL before and after the install of a UDP. Nothing exists. Nothing. Same goes for a 1/4 mile comparision. Nothing. Why buy into it if the claims can't be substaniated by 3rd party testing?
My recommendation: save your money until valid data is presented that a UDP actually works as advertized.
Years ago I had a UDP on my VQ30 Maxima. The OEM Nissan pulley design is exactly like the OEM Acura pulley design, that means both are two pulleys sandwiched with an elastomer ring. The ring acts as a vibrational crank damper. On the other end of the engine is either a flywheel or torque converter and those parts act as dampers due to the sheer mass. The UDP on the VQ30 weighed 15 ozs and removed about 5.5lbs in pulley weight. I tested the UDP both on the dyno and drag strip. There was no change in power and the car was no quicker. It was, however, harder to launch due to the reduced moment of inertia and more NVH could be felt in the higher rpms because of the lack of damper.
ALL late model engines are internally balanced. The issue here is the explosive twisting forces placed on the rotating assembly. That force create certain order vibrations along the crank and that's what the OEM damper reduces. The vibrations can ultimately wreck engine bearings and basically your engine.
I've always found it amusing that so many on this site put faith in the quoted gains and science of the these UDPs. Show me just one dyno of a TL before and after the install of a UDP. Nothing exists. Nothing. Same goes for a 1/4 mile comparision. Nothing. Why buy into it if the claims can't be substaniated by 3rd party testing?
My recommendation: save your money until valid data is presented that a UDP actually works as advertized.
See the results in this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ht=zasker+dyno
Or this thread (which has a lot of great info and feedback):
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ht=zasker+dyno
Or even Stillen (the Nissan/Infiniti experts) shows that most of the Stillen pulleys for the Nissan/Infiniti G35/350Z have seen gains of about 10whp.
http://www.stillen.com/product.asp?i...odel=G35%202DR
Another dyno from Altered Atmosphere (another well-respected Nissan/Infiniti tuner):
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/imag...dyno_a4_v6.jpg
Here's one from a CL-S:
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/imag..._cl_type-s.jpg
Here's an RSX-S dyno graph, which looks very similar to the TSX gains:
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/imag...rsx_type-s.jpg
Here's another from a Maxima:
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/imag...axima_2002.jpg
And what about the hundreds, if not thousands, of positive reviews on this board alone? But I'm going to assume that all these dynos are conspiracies or fabricated and Stillen, UR, Altered Atmosphere, and all the independent dyno shops and members are liars and Dave_B is the only person presenting truth on this board. I guess all those 2nd gen CL/TL members who have 100k, 150, and over 200k with the pulley are also lying.
And that missing elastomer (rubber ring designed to reduce noise from the pulleys) has caused how many engine failures? Oh, none. Right. Where's the evidence for that one? Funny, when ppl remove a resonator from their exhaust (which is designed to reduce noise) their exhausts don't fall apart and their cats don't fail. When people remove remove the baffles off the intake systems the intake manifold doesn't explode and crack because of the additional noise and vibration so where does the logic come from? The elastomer does not provide balance nor absorb the vibrations you speak; only an aftermarket damper like the ATI or Fluidampr can. And unless you're making 2-3 times your factory hp or you're revving the motor 2-3k higher than the stock redline an aftermarket damper like those isn't necessary.
The following users liked this post:
yeedatoy (12-31-2011)
02-22-2010, 08:27 PM
#35
Yes we have proven time and again in numerous threads that your logic is faulty. I'm not going to argue with you again and again in every thread; you have already ruined so many.
See the results in this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ht=zasker+dyno
Or this thread (which has a lot of great info and feedback):
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ht=zasker+dyno
Or even Stillen (the Nissan/Infiniti experts) shows that most of the Stillen pulleys for the Nissan/Infiniti G35/350Z have seen gains of about 10whp.
http://www.stillen.com/product.asp?i...odel=G35%202DR
Another dyno from Altered Atmosphere (another well-respected Nissan/Infiniti tuner):
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/imag...dyno_a4_v6.jpg
Here's one from a CL-S:
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/imag..._cl_type-s.jpg
Here's an RSX-S dyno graph, which looks very similar to the TSX gains:
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/imag...rsx_type-s.jpg
Here's another from a Maxima:
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/imag...axima_2002.jpg
And what about the hundreds, if not thousands, of positive reviews on this board alone? But I'm going to assume that all these dynos are conspiracies or fabricated and Stillen, UR, Altered Atmosphere, and all the independent dyno shops and members are liars and Dave_B is the only person presenting truth on this board. I guess all those 2nd gen CL/TL members who have 100k, 150, and over 200k with the pulley are also lying.
And that missing elastomer (rubber ring designed to reduce noise from the pulleys) has caused how many engine failures? Oh, none. Right. Where's the evidence for that one? Funny, when ppl remove a resonator from their exhaust (which is designed to reduce noise) their exhausts don't fall apart and their cats don't fail. When people remove remove the baffles off the intake systems the intake manifold doesn't explode and crack because of the additional noise and vibration so where does the logic come from? The elastomer does not provide balance nor absorb the vibrations you speak; only an aftermarket damper like the ATI or Fluidampr can. And unless you're making 2-3 times your factory hp or you're revving the motor 2-3k higher than the stock redline an aftermarket damper like those isn't necessary.
See the results in this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ht=zasker+dyno
Or this thread (which has a lot of great info and feedback):
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ht=zasker+dyno
Or even Stillen (the Nissan/Infiniti experts) shows that most of the Stillen pulleys for the Nissan/Infiniti G35/350Z have seen gains of about 10whp.
http://www.stillen.com/product.asp?i...odel=G35%202DR
Another dyno from Altered Atmosphere (another well-respected Nissan/Infiniti tuner):
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/imag...dyno_a4_v6.jpg
Here's one from a CL-S:
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/imag..._cl_type-s.jpg
Here's an RSX-S dyno graph, which looks very similar to the TSX gains:
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/imag...rsx_type-s.jpg
Here's another from a Maxima:
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/imag...axima_2002.jpg
And what about the hundreds, if not thousands, of positive reviews on this board alone? But I'm going to assume that all these dynos are conspiracies or fabricated and Stillen, UR, Altered Atmosphere, and all the independent dyno shops and members are liars and Dave_B is the only person presenting truth on this board. I guess all those 2nd gen CL/TL members who have 100k, 150, and over 200k with the pulley are also lying.
And that missing elastomer (rubber ring designed to reduce noise from the pulleys) has caused how many engine failures? Oh, none. Right. Where's the evidence for that one? Funny, when ppl remove a resonator from their exhaust (which is designed to reduce noise) their exhausts don't fall apart and their cats don't fail. When people remove remove the baffles off the intake systems the intake manifold doesn't explode and crack because of the additional noise and vibration so where does the logic come from? The elastomer does not provide balance nor absorb the vibrations you speak; only an aftermarket damper like the ATI or Fluidampr can. And unless you're making 2-3 times your factory hp or you're revving the motor 2-3k higher than the stock redline an aftermarket damper like those isn't necessary.
02-22-2010, 08:50 PM
#36
2006 6spd
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
lol...looks like its gonna take a while reviewing all your proof carefully...lol...thanx everyone for all your input even Dave-B~way-acura for bringing even better detailed info from the other members...
Can't we all just drive TL's togther!!!...lol once more
Can't we all just drive TL's togther!!!...lol once more
02-22-2010, 11:45 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
Excelerate, you still haven't posted a before and after dyno of a UDP on a TL. What's the big deal? You market the modification so hard, yet you have no 3rd party data to support your claims. All you've ever relied on for proof is a bunch of manufactuer and vendor dynos. Any gearhead knows to NEVER trust quoted gains. Are you afraid to know the truth about this mod and that it basically does nothing? Go spend some time over at Maxima.org, G35Driver.com, or my350z.com and you'll see that UDPs are basically viewed as snake oil, a joke, worthless, etc.
Like said, I've put a UR UDP to the true tests. The car in question made over 100 passes prior to the UDP, 40 passes with the UDP (same track), and then another 60 or so passes again without the UDP. Looking at the slips, the UDP didn't make the car measureably quicker. If anything, it slowed the car down in the first 330' because it was harder to launch effectively. On the dyno, it didn't gain a single HP. The curve was exactly the same from 2000rpms to 7100rpms.
And finally, you so wrong about the elastomer ring that it boggles my mind. It most definitely quells certain order torsional vibrations across the crank.
Like said, I've put a UR UDP to the true tests. The car in question made over 100 passes prior to the UDP, 40 passes with the UDP (same track), and then another 60 or so passes again without the UDP. Looking at the slips, the UDP didn't make the car measureably quicker. If anything, it slowed the car down in the first 330' because it was harder to launch effectively. On the dyno, it didn't gain a single HP. The curve was exactly the same from 2000rpms to 7100rpms.
And finally, you so wrong about the elastomer ring that it boggles my mind. It most definitely quells certain order torsional vibrations across the crank.
02-23-2010, 12:06 AM
#38
Burning Brakes
The import UDP fad and most likely related to UDPs used in older domestic V8s, more specifically, the Ford 5 liter found in the Fox body Mustangs. Many owners would swap out the crank pulley, alternator pulley, and water pump pulley with lightened underdriving pulleys. The important thing to note here is underdrive. The pulleys would significantly underdrive the alternator and water pump in an effort to gain power. The pulleys were light simply because were made cheaply on a lathe and not much concern was given to the OEM crank pulley.
In 1996, a company by the name Unorthodox Racing (UR's) came along and started making lightweight, slightly underdriven aluminum pulleys for sport compacts. The pulleys were cheap to make. UR's claims were that the lightened pulleys created power by reducing rotational weight and that minimal power came from the underdriving aspect. UR is correct in that reducing rotating weight can improve power. Is much the reason why race cars have light rims (it's also from better control and braking, but that's another topic). Where UR failed is that they never considered where the pulley was mounted nor it's size. A pulley is only about 7" in diameter and is mounted directly to the engine therefore it's FAR easier for the motor to spin a 7lb pulley 7" vs say a 26" wheel/tire combo mounted on the end of an axle. The bigger the circumference, the harder it is to overcome the mass. Removing 20lbs from two drive wheels/tires will get you about 10whp on the dyno. A lightened pulley is only removing 5lbs from a 7" spinning object directly from the engine. There's a huge difference.
In 1996, a company by the name Unorthodox Racing (UR's) came along and started making lightweight, slightly underdriven aluminum pulleys for sport compacts. The pulleys were cheap to make. UR's claims were that the lightened pulleys created power by reducing rotational weight and that minimal power came from the underdriving aspect. UR is correct in that reducing rotating weight can improve power. Is much the reason why race cars have light rims (it's also from better control and braking, but that's another topic). Where UR failed is that they never considered where the pulley was mounted nor it's size. A pulley is only about 7" in diameter and is mounted directly to the engine therefore it's FAR easier for the motor to spin a 7lb pulley 7" vs say a 26" wheel/tire combo mounted on the end of an axle. The bigger the circumference, the harder it is to overcome the mass. Removing 20lbs from two drive wheels/tires will get you about 10whp on the dyno. A lightened pulley is only removing 5lbs from a 7" spinning object directly from the engine. There's a huge difference.
02-23-2010, 12:20 AM
#39
Burning Brakes
Excelerate, one more thing. Your beloved manufactuer Unorthodox Racing now supports what I've been saying all along about the dampers in OEM pulleys. This actually irrates me greatly because I've gotten into it on numerous past occasions with the owner of UR regarding OEM pulleys. He vehemently stated that the OEM pulleys were NOT dampers and that the elastomer ring was there to quiet accessory noise and the engines are "internally balanced". Even you, using UR's statements as your proof, stated the same thing to me on numerous occasions. Now, after all this time, UR is now saying that OEM pulleys are in fact dampers. Interesting. Why would they do such a thing? Why of course, to sell their new upcoming product called the "Ultra Damper". This makes me sick. How can anyone believe a word that comes out of UR mouths now.
What do you have to say now?
http://unorthodoxracing.blogspot.com...ifference.html
What do you have to say now?
http://unorthodoxracing.blogspot.com...ifference.html
There are a number of different types of dampers used. First is the most used type which all the OEM car manufacturers use. This damper is made of two parts, first is the inner section which mounts to the crankshaft and the second outer section (with or without belt grooves or teeth). These two sections are bonded together with rubber creating what looks like a rubber ring. This type of damper is limited in its ability to reduce torsional movement or harmonic frequencies because it has limited motion, uses rubber which causes wild swings in its limited effectiveness due to temperature and lastly the small amount of weight (the outer section). The first problem with the OEM damper is its lack of motion. It moves torsionally, side to side, but is limited in how far it can move due to the thin layer of rubber that bonds its sections together. It has no ability to move with engine thrust and it has no orbital ability. The second problem is the rubber which softens very quickly as the engine heats up. This softening radically changes the dampers ability to control torsional movement and harmonic frequencies. So ultimately this rubber causes the damper to only be useful in a very narrow rpm band. Rubber also degrades very quickly and causes OEM dampers to break apart at the bonding. The thrid problem is weight because with the OEM dampers limited motion it needs significantlyh more weight to function and the OEM's do not include enough weight to help counteract the other two short comings. The only positives of this type of damper are its cheap developemnt and manufacturing cost and its good ability to respond quickly to crankmovement due to the inertia weight being on the outside of the elastomer, this unfotunately is quickly negated by its lack of weight and the variability of the rubber itself.
