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Maybe bad coil packs? Unlikely that so many would fail at the same time unless something caused it. Or cam lobe angle mismatch?
Any idea where the metal shrapnel on the plugs is coming from? I hope it's not the threads on the head or piston / ring material.
it was from the piston head. did a pull at 8 lb and it was not ready for it.
damn near blew the car up. after the pull i started to get misfires. on 6
the problem has been fixed. and when i was pulling the plugs we took a peek into the cylinder and saw that 5 and 6 were a little chewed up.
this car has met its limit with my fuel for this compression ratio.
ima save up for a new set of pistons. time to go low comp/high boost.
maybe a little water/meth.
gotta think of a fail safe in case the spray suddenly stopped. like screaminz28 said if that happened that would be bad.
it was from the piston head. did a pull at 8 lb and it was not ready for it.
damn near blew the car up. after the pull i started to get misfires. on 6
the problem has been fixed. and when i was pulling the plugs we took a peek into the cylinder and saw that 5 and 6 were a little chewed up.
this car has met its limit with my fuel for this compression ratio.
ima save up for a new set of pistons. time to go low comp/high boost.
maybe a little water/meth.
gotta think of a fail safe in case the spray suddenly stopped. like screaminz28 said if that happened that would be bad.
The AEM methanol kit has a built in fail safe with a fluid level sensor and a led that that indicates whether the system is running normally. A low comp J can make a ton of power without having to tune for Methanol and use it as a safe guard.
I don't think any of the J32 turbo guys tuned for methanol, we are using it as a protective measure with great success.
i highly recommend the aquamist over the AEM and devil own kit. I currently run it on my car and it has multiple triggers on it. It can be triggered by vacuum, injector pulse width, engine load, and etc.
I currently have my car tuned for methanol and MPG has jumped up since I am running a leaner mixture(my car is N/A). So for turbo guys it would probably be wise to use this on top of an intercooler to get consistent power and reliability.
@ hispeed are you still in san jose? I want to check out your TL
you want the HFS-4. I have the HFS-2 since I am N/A
so yet another theory as to the frequent demise of these engines under boost
the timing may be off from the factory. i pulled the plugs after some hard detonation and a misfire. and all but 5 and 6 looked ok. Those two had some signs of serious detonation.
the metal pieces found imbedded in them were scary as hell.
after it all got put back together with some colder, less metal peppered plugs. i did a pull with a new tune Vit sent me and took a picture of the timing marks. i cant really read plugs, still being pretty new to this and all. but he said that the cylinders were pretty misbalanced. he said " #4 needs a little more timing. #1/2/3 all want more timing -- 5 & 6 want a tad less." so until the timing issues get fixed. ima be checking the plugs between pulls.
Have you thought about getting a set of injectors that are flow matched or have yours tested to see if they are flowing the same?
Yup, still in San Jose, let me know when your in town I would love to show you the car.
Originally Posted by thisaznboi88
i highly recommend the aquamist over the AEM and devil own kit. I currently run it on my car and it has multiple triggers on it. It can be triggered by vacuum, injector pulse width, engine load, and etc.
I currently have my car tuned for methanol and MPG has jumped up since I am running a leaner mixture(my car is N/A). So for turbo guys it would probably be wise to use this on top of an intercooler to get consistent power and reliability.
@ hispeed are you still in san jose? I want to check out your TL
you want the HFS-4. I have the HFS-2 since I am N/A
Have you thought about getting a set of injectors that are flow matched or have yours tested to see if they are flowing the same?
no i didnt even think about that.
but it is possible that one or 2 may be clogged up. i did have to modify them to make them fit in the new fuel rails.
no i didnt even think about that.
but it is possible that one or 2 may be clogged up. i did have to modify them to make them fit in the new fuel rails.
I thought you got them from FIC that Gerzand recommended? They don't flow match them? No way I'd buy them if they weren't. That's one of the main reasons you get injectors from a company like that.
Just got my J35a8 swap up and running. I tried to contact you on facebook but you didn't respond. I am in Utah County, and running an Infinity 6 ECU. The tuning went excellent with no complaints. Very curious as to why your getting knock on the set-up.
Just got my J35a8 swap up and running. I tried to contact you on facebook but you didn't respond. I am in Utah County, and running an Infinity 6 ECU. The tuning went excellent with no complaints. Very curious as to why your getting knock on the set-up.
We think it is just to much compression, that's my fault I talked my kid into doing a 10.4-1 piston, every one tried to tell us to go low compression but I'm old and stubborn and wanted to try it, with our pee water 91 octane we are thinking on taking a big swing in the opposite direction and go 8.5-1 and get the boost more in our turbos eficency range of 16-20 LBS, what do you all think maybe even 8.0-1 ????????????
We think it is just to much compression, that's my fault I talked my kid into doing a 10.4-1 piston, every one tried to tell us to go low compression but I'm old and stubborn and wanted to try it, with our pee water 91 octane we are thinking on taking a big swing in the opposite direction and go 8.5-1 and get the boost more in our turbos eficency range of 16-20 LBS, what do you all think maybe even 8.0-1 ????????????
I tune 10:1 motors on 91 pump gas in Utah with no problem. I don't think that's your problem.
I tune 10:1 motors on 91 pump gas in Utah with no problem. I don't think that's your problem.
We just can't get much over 400 WHP no matter how much fuel we give it or timing we take away it still gets detonation at anything over 7 PSI even on a cold rainey day like we have been having
probably having bad luck due to the design of the head exhaust port. have you tried disabling the EGR and see if that helps? If not its probably sucking hot exhaust back into the cylinder during the overlapping phase
probably having bad luck due to the design of the head exhaust port. have you tried disabling the EGR and see if that helps? If not its probably sucking hot exhaust back into the cylinder during the overlapping phase
We think it is just to much compression, that's my fault I talked my kid into doing a 10.4-1 piston, every one tried to tell us to go low compression but I'm old and stubborn and wanted to try it, with our pee water 91 octane we are thinking on taking a big swing in the opposite direction and go 8.5-1 and get the boost more in our turbos eficency range of 16-20 LBS, what do you all think maybe even 8.0-1 ????????????
I think 8:1 is probably overkill - 8.5:1 would probably make it a bit lazy off boost, but be safer and you could turn it up a good bit more. 9:1 is probably the sweet spot for off boost driveability and detonation resistance. Then again, 9:1 would have been considered HIGH 20 years ago lol.
I was afraid it would come back to this. The previous piston failure was just toooooo unusual!
I would eliminate fuel octane and fill it up with race gas before going any further with the motor or tune. As Vit said, many people get focused on a specific amount of boost and forget that these motors are definitely not the ideal motor for high boost numbers...especially the double digit numbers (10lbs+). But if you're running 6lbs just to rid the engine of knock, something's wrong. I was pushing 12lbs with no signs of detonation and could run 15lbs before needing to trim cylinders with retard. Mind you, this was all on a bone stock j35a8! It is very odd that one side of the motor is having issues. The j-series are known for having cam timing out by several degrees so this could definitely be a possibility. And yes, the single port exhaust heads are notorious for causing some wacky effects under boost but at your levels, doubtful. Were the head(s) milled at all? Did you ever notice any other symptoms relating to maybe ignition, fuel or codes that pertained to the front bank? Perhaps you have a bad, ill performing AF sensor on the front bank...would the car benefit from installing two (B1S1 and B2S1) new sensors? Maybe an exhaust leak between the head and flange that's throwing off the AF readings? I'd try swapping some ignition/fuel related components around such as the rear injectors and coils to the front to see if the problem follows. What do your short and long term fuel trims look like? You can check the short term trims on a cold and hot engine to see if it may be an intake tract leak that's only exposed under certain conditions. Doubtful but are the rails set up in series and starving the front bank under high load? Is your FPR set up correctly for positive pressure and supplying adequate amounts of fuel during boost? System voltage stays consistent under high engine load or boost? ECM/engine electronics ground at the thermostat housing tight and clean?
Would you mind posting up a datalog of the knock event(s)? Also, maybe some screenshots of the fuel/ignition tables. Not that I think I'm above Vit on any of this but I'm pretty good with FlashPro and picking up clues if there are any to expose. Feel free to email the datalog to me if need be: autoelectricservices@yahoo.com
We just can't get much over 400 WHP no matter how much fuel we give it or timing we take away it still gets detonation at anything over 7 PSI even on a cold rainey day like we have been having
Could be correct. But at your higher compression your making solid power at even 7 psi. Want to make more on pump gas? Ditch the small turbo you went with. While the back pressure of a small turbo does bring on boost super fast, it also causes a lot of exhaust reversion making it harder for all the hot exhaust to get out of the motor lowering the VE and making it more detonation prone.
How header design and pressure effect detonation
I still think you were smart to go high comp though. It is just that your set-up is now expected to be run on race gas/ethanol/water-meth.
If you need a good price on meth, Independence Missouri is about 45 minutes from my house. I'm happy to fedex a few bags straight to your house if needed. It's the meth capital of the US, the prices are hard to beat.
I knew it made peoples hearts go fast, I never knew I could put it in my gas tank too.
Could be correct. But at your higher compression your making solid power at even 7 psi. Want to make more on pump gas? Ditch the small turbo you went with. While the back pressure of a small turbo does bring on boost super fast, it also causes a lot of exhaust reversion making it harder for all the hot exhaust to get out of the motor lowering the VE and making it more detonation prone.
How header design and pressure effect detonation
I still think you were smart to go high comp though. It is just that your set-up is now expected to be run on race gas/ethanol/water-meth.
Have you started using the water meth yet?
62.5 mm and 79 lb/min, I don't think this is a small turbo for a 3.5L engine we cant even get into the efficency island on the map untill about 20 PSI this is a dailey driver no a drag race car
Borg Warner 8374 EFR Turbo 475-750 HP. Borg Warner 8374 EFR Turbo is engineered to support big power levels yet spool fast enough for professional time attack teams. The 74mm Gamma-Ti turbine wheel is the optimal match for the 62.6mm inducer / 83mm exducer FMW compressor wheel and is capable of 79lb/min airflow and 45+psi boost. This is one of the most exciting turbos in the EFR lineup for the high-power addicts. This turbo has the largest EFR compressor housing and is ideal for use in single turbo applications for the 500-800hp range
62.5 mm and 79 lb/min, I don't think this is a small turbo for a 3.5L engine we cant even get into the efficency island on the map untill about 20 PSI this is a dailey driver no a drag race car
Borg Warner 8374 EFR Turbo 475-750 HP. Borg Warner 8374 EFR Turbo is engineered to support big power levels yet spool fast enough for professional time attack teams. The 74mm Gamma-Ti turbine wheel is the optimal match for the 62.6mm inducer / 83mm exducer FMW compressor wheel and is capable of 79lb/min airflow and 45+psi boost. This is one of the most exciting turbos in the EFR lineup for the high-power addicts. This turbo has the largest EFR compressor housing and is ideal for use in single turbo applications for the 500-800hp range
Run a very healthy dose of water meth and you'll fall back in love with your high compression set-up. Or, yesterday before the rain I filled up with some ethanol and have a blend at e38 right now and boy did the motor love it! Another high compression BMW M3 I just tuned which is a daily we tuned on E30. He blends it at his house and since he is only doing E30 the 20 gal jug he only fills up once a month. Just some ideas
If your really feeling like doing something not very mainstream that worked good for me was running straight water pre-turbo on a fully mechanical set-up. It would start spraying at 5 psi and would then be linear from there. It is not that big here in the states, but big in Australia. They will run 30 pounds of boost on pump gas but they inject a TON of water. Really interesting stuff.
I couldn't get the backpressure link to work, could you elaborate on it a little more? The guys at SpeedFactory were guessing that I might need a 3" exhaust to help with the backpressure. Of course they haven't opened up my engine yet to see what happened.
On the water injection pre-turbo, can you explain that a little more in depth as well?
I couldn't get the backpressure link to work, could you elaborate on it a little more? The guys at SpeedFactory were guessing that I might need a 3" exhaust to help with the backpressure. Of course they haven't opened up my engine yet to see what happened.
On the water injection pre-turbo, can you explain that a little more in depth as well?
Thanks!
Let me post links again sorry. I hate that you can't go back and edit posts on this site. Here is the link on back-pressure. Talks about the sky active motor that is 15:1 compression ratio and runs on pump gas.
Maddog, are you still running your cats? That could be a problem with them mounted so close to the motor.
The water injection stuff is really big in Australia. No one really does it here. I did it with great success.
Here is pre-turbo injection: Pre Turbo Water Alcohol Methanol Injection
Here is where guys talk about the pre-turbo water injection stuff. YOU MUST USE A SPECIAL NOZZLE to do this at low pressures so you don't chew up the compressor wheel.
I should add if your going to do a high compression turbo motor build you MUST focus on exhaust back-pressure. Tony the Tiger talked a lot about it on his thread when everyone was wondering how he was running 12.5:1 compression ratio and 12 pounds of boost on a j35 on 93 octane. The exhaust flow has to be SUPER efficient or its going to have a low knock threshhold.
Maddog, are you still running your cats? That could be a problem with them mounted so close to the motor.
Thanks for the updated link. I had removed the pre-cats as well as the catalytic converter. It was all open 2.5" tubing to the turbo. The guys at SpeedFactory were thinking of bumping that up to 3" tubing to the turbo to relieve any sort of back pressure that was going on with the high displacement of the 3.5L engine coupled with the largish turbo that I have, it's rated for 750whp.
Of course it doesn't help that I don't know exactly what went wrong with my built motor, I'm going to bug them in the next couple of days to see if they're going to get around to opening it up this week.
took the week off work to finish up a little fabrication project.
i figured it would help to make a box to block the filter from all the heat from turbo manifold, and make it take in air from somewhere colder like my tire well and bumper.
all it took was some aluminium, and welding gas.... and my seal from the hood cowl i cut up..... and 7 broken drill bits, 2 broken self tapping screws, 2 burnt fingers, and lots and lots of polish, unfortunately i couldnt make it in one piece. the fit was just too tight. so the side, back, and bottom plates all had to be installed separately then sealed off with my hood cowl seal. and what was left of my dads lol
Just got my J35a8 swap up and running. I tried to contact you on facebook but you didn't respond. I am in Utah County, and running an Infinity 6 ECU. The tuning went excellent with no complaints. Very curious as to why your getting knock on the set-up.
That's a fantastic ecu, running it on a bunch of cars now, fell in love with it, lol.
I've had cars make 450 on 91, sometimes a bit more. With no two cars ever being quite the same, some will do that power, some will not.
I think the issues might be due to the design of our exhaust ports. Are the 9th gen civics having issue with knocking or hitting a certain amount of hp/boost levels?
I think the issues might be due to the design of our exhaust ports. Are the 9th gen civics having issue with knocking or hitting a certain amount of hp/boost levels?
Vit said in a previous thread that they have no problem hitting 400+ whp. Their torque is lower obviously, but they have to be hitting higher per cylinder pressures to hit that power level.
I think they have a wider flange than the J32 though. I think the J37 has a wider flange as well. It would be interesting to see the results with those heads, or if the J37 is prone to the #5 spark plug blow out. I still don't see why there isn't an even distribution of #2 and #5 blowing out if it is the exhaust design as the heads are symmetric, are they not?
I think the issues might be due to the design of our exhaust ports. Are the 9th gen civics having issue with knocking or hitting a certain amount of hp/boost levels?
Originally Posted by screaminz28
Vit said in a previous thread that they have no problem hitting 400+ whp. Their torque is lower obviously, but they have to be hitting higher per cylinder pressures to hit that power level.
I think they have a wider flange than the J32 though. I think the J37 has a wider flange as well. It would be interesting to see the results with those heads, or if the J37 is prone to the #5 spark plug blow out. I still don't see why there isn't an even distribution of #2 and #5 blowing out if it is the exhaust design as the heads are symmetric, are they not?
Stock intake manifold cars are typically stuck at the 360-400whp level even on 93 octane. Once you put an RBC IM on them, they will break 400. But it's a different motor and doesn't have 2 banks to worry about.
Are you guys still running the stock exhaust from the split out back or did you switch? I remember you running 3in to where the stock mufflers are but couldn't remember if you had ever changed that. I'd love to keep my car quiet but if it kills performance too much...
Are you guys still running the stock exhaust from the split out back or did you switch? I remember you running 3in to where the stock mufflers are but couldn't remember if you had ever changed that. I'd love to keep my car quiet but if it kills performance too much...
Yes 3in to the y the stock, I,ve been trying to talk him into cutting it off and trying it streight pipe to see if that helps with the knock, +++++++++He put some 110 racing fuel in it and ther is no knock with it at 9 PSI havent gone higher than that yet
I drove it to work yesterday and it hauls some ass that's for sure
I wonder if you are hitting some kind of excessive backpressue with the stock mufflers - can you not just drop the exhaust to see how it behaves? I'd love know if there was some power gained. I know the mufflers are very far from the manifold, but I'd be surprised if you didn't pick up some...
I wonder if you are hitting some kind of excessive backpressue with the stock mufflers - can you not just drop the exhaust to see how it behaves? I'd love know if there was some power gained. I know the mufflers are very far from the manifold, but I'd be surprised if you didn't pick up some...
External wastegaste would help, but it's not to sneaky!
I wonder if you are hitting some kind of excessive backpressue with the stock mufflers - can you not just drop the exhaust to see how it behaves? I'd love know if there was some power gained. I know the mufflers are very far from the manifold, but I'd be surprised if you didn't pick up some...
Ive thought about doing this. Maybe when its time for a re-tune.
Ive got a question for everyone. Why couldnt ypu use a 3.7 intake manifold on a j35 supercharged . The manifold upgrade for better flow than the 3.5. People say it wont work bc of the 3.7 throttle body id bigger and wont bolt up to supercharger. But if ur intercooling ur supercharger u connect ur j35 throttle body to supercharger and still use the 3.7 intake manifold. All u have to do is make a custom flange for the piping to connect the manifold from intercooler. Bc it goes cold air into supercharger back out to intercooler to intake manifold. Whats everyones take on this
05-16-2015, 10:34 AM
