^^^ those weights are correct....

when I started my weight loss I was at 36xx lbs and now am sitting at 2950-2975lbs....

 

Ok cool yeah you guys are right. I looked up what my 2008 Acura TL brochure says and it is as follows:
(These are 2007-2008 model year weights only)

base w/o nav 3623lb
base w nav 3636lb
TLS MT 3559lb
TLS AT 3674lb

So I was kind of correct, the Type S mt is in the 3500ish range. That automatic adds on over a hundred pounds I see. So I show the same weight for Type S auto as you, but my TL brochure says 3,559lb for Type S manual. Either way all pretty similar even to your 2G's.

 

^^^ well 3559 is dry weight....

say you put 8 gallons of gas, that adds 48lbs and there, you are in the 36xx lbs and add the driver and 38xx is what you are at usually

 

Well yeah those are all dry weights why would we be discussing vehicles weights with fuel and a payload?

 

because you need both fuel and a driver to get the car going...

I know they are variables but just saying that the TL is not light by a stretch....and definitely not 3500 lbs as you mentioned....if anything with a passenger, you are closer to 2 tons....

 

From the Acura brochure I have:

6MT Type S = 3559lbs
5AT Type S = 3674lbs

The 04-06 base 6MT is around ~3484lbs. That's only a 75lbs diff, which isn't that much. 6MT Type S still has ~12.4 lb/hp and 6MT base has ~13.5 lb/hp. The slightly heavier weight just isn't enough to make up for the diff in power, which is why the 6MT Type S wins.

You cant use those arguments because they apply to all cars all models. It's a mute point. A base model with a hefty driver and full tank of gas is easily over 3600-3700lbs too...same difference.

One thing I've always been curious about is how is the 4G SH-AWD that much faster (IIRC around 13.7 in the 1/4) even though it's only ~20hp/20tq more than the Type S but ~200lbs heavier and AWD. Either some number is off or that's impressive.

 

I never referred to the TL as being light, its more or less your typical weight for a mid sized 4 door sedan. Im not sure why you are adding in variables that has nothing to do with what we are discussing here
As for you saying the weight of the Type S 6mt definitely cant be 3500lbs, well what do you want me to tell you? The book says the 07/08 Type S 6mt weighs 3559lbs so thats what it is...nothing out of the ordinary or special.

If you want to get technical, my 07 Type S 6mt weighs 3559 + 186 (me) + 30 (all wx mats approx) + 100 (full tank of fuel) + 5 (misc shit) + 20 (diono kids car seat). So my Type S is pushing about 3900lbs on any given day. 4061lbs with my wife and daughter Imagine if it was a 4G SH-AWD that puppy would be pushing 4500+ lbs.

 

For what it's worth my '06 base 5at weighed 3,900lbs with me in it and some audio gear. Can't remember the fuel level and I'm 220-ish. About the earlier auto vs manual argument, there seems to be a larger difference in the smaller engine/lower torque cars. I can think of several quick factory cars that ran as quick and quicker with the auto. Throw a turbo in the mix and the auto is flat out superior. Remember, car makers have to worry about mpg , in fact that's one of their biggest concerns. This means you're not likely to get a stall speed that's optimal for performance. The auto is likely going to bog off the line. That's probably why the larger engine cars with more low end torque are not adversely affected by an auto. The torque converter actually offers an advantage off the line over a manual assuming the stall speed is high enough and traction is decent which is rarely the case from the factory.

As cars get quicker the auto becomes more and more of an advantage. I don't know how I could shift my car quickly enough if it were a manual when set on kill at the track. It would literally be popping the clutch and immediately shifting to second gear which also disrupts the flow or power and the traction. Still though, there's no denying the typical Honda/Acura is quicker in manual form.

 

^^

He's right. For 1/4 mile setups an auto is preferred unless that tranny is a dog compared to the manual, if a manual is offered in whichever vehicle you're looking at. High end sports cars have killer autos these days and offer manuals typically only to please purists which prefer to shift. Their autos shift faster than a human can manually.

Not sure which is preferable for track set ups, I Hate Cars can shed some light there I'm sure. For street cars which is most of our set ups here, it's a matter of preference. I like to shift, for me that's my drivers experience for my dd. some prefer auto, nothing wrong with that. In this car, if you prefer/have a manual, you get the better performance benefit compared with the auto trans. The car is great either way, enjoy it

 

the base MT and the Type S Auto are equal speed-wise. A couple of years ago i raced my buddy in his 04 6MT base, and my 08 5AT type S, both completely stock. Races from a stand-still and races from a ~30 roll were dead even. He was also an exceptional driver/shifter so I know the care was being used to its potential. they are EVEN people, the base 5MT is not faster they are equal. I know from experience...

 

Experience this:

 

That's convincing enough. Especially the 3-4mph difference that takes tires and launch out of the equation. The only thing I wonder is if the auto was manually shifting 3-4. I raced another 5at base and I treed him by a couple feet but we were otherwise dead even until he shifted to 4th and I manually shifted right at redline. That was worth a full car length if not a little more. Anyone who has raced a stock 5at at the track, can you stretch 3rd out or do you have to make the shift to 4th? I found in my other car it's quicker and faster to hold it in 3rd even though that puts me 1,000rpm past the stock revlimit.

With that said I bet the 1/4 doesn't tell the whole story, the beating probably gets worse the longer the race goes on due to gearing. The 5at obviously hits a wall in 4th but as speed climbs into the stupid range it picks up a little as it gets back into the powerband and falls off again shortly after as aerodynamics kill it again. It tops out in 4th, I've had it at an indicated 160mph and shifted to 5th for the hell of it and it started losing speed. 4th is actually a good top speed gear ratio, it puts you right at peak power at top speed but we still need a gear between 3rd and 4th for acceleration. It's too bad were not able to apply 2 gears at once to split the difference as some do.

 

common reply...

Familyguy, I totally agree....the reason I added some variable in there is because those variables will always be in there....

On the 4G AWD TL, I think the AWD provides wayyyy better traction and hence the better launch and track time...the Auto 4G is almost 0.5-0.7seconds slower to 60 and in the 1/4 mile....

James (right?) we are discussing time and we are discussing acceleration, the reason I add those variables is coz when you are out street racing, all those variables add up....imagine you just got a tank of gas 17 gallons and I only carry 4 gallons...thats 13x6.25 = 81lbs advantage that I have on you...

also with the mats and all season mat and couple other things....


my car weighs under 3000lbs and am fully bolted on and these are the numbers which Torque PRO displayed....since they I swapped my true dual exhaust for RV6 V3 jpipe and XLR8 base exhaust...

2005 TL...Auto...

I hate launching my car...i usually floor it from 20mph...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44051364@N00/9123604528/http://www.flickr.com/photos/44051364@N00/9123604528/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/44051364@N00/, on Flickr

 

Don't know about the 5AT in the TL (not sure if it is geared the same as the Accord) but the 2-3 upshift is/was the killer for me. Acceleration would noticeably flatten out right after the upshift for about 3-4 mph before it picked up again. Manually shifting at redline definitely helped, but now that I have a j-pipe, the bog is gone even if I let it shift automatically. However, if I do manually shift at redline, its even quicker.

I used to bracket race a lot when I had a Chevelle, having a good ratchet shifter and a shift kit helped make manually shifting easier. And I found out how important not just final drive, but transmission gearing was when I went from horrible 2.56 gears to not nearly as bad 3.08s. I was going through the traps in 2nd gear at 5800 rpms, switched to the 3.08s, had to shift into 3rd about 30 feet before the finish, was going through at around 4400 rpm and lost 2 mph in trap speed even though I was running .3-.4 quicker ETs.

 

Yeah I was surprised with their 1/4 times after seeing the curb weight. Gotta love AWD.

 

Traction is everything. I hit my first 11 sec 1/4 at 110mph. Most are stuck in the 13s at that mph. One of my last hard races was an 800rwhp Supra that I beat pretty well with only 600rwhp. A set of tires can be worth thousands in engine mods.

 

Jesus lol wish you had a video of that one.

I wonder how the 4G gearing compares to the 3G. Might make a difference there too.

 

No doubt. I'm trying to remember what my buddy's fox body was trapping when he was running upper 11's slicks/low 12's drag radials. I think it was only 111-112 mph. A TL trapping that on street tires would be lucky to see upper 12's with a very good driver. My other buddy's Syclone was running 11.50's and I can't remember his traps either. I want to say 114-115? I do remember embarrassing a C5 Z06 from 0-70 so badly he made a hasty turn off. That truck was a blast off the lights.

 

I remember when they ran the high school class on street night at the track. One guy had a 5.0 Fox Body that was running high 11s at maybe 110mph. It was amazing at what was NOT done to the car. It had the usual filter, timing advance, weight reduction, gears, and a bunch of small things but the big one was he set it on the rev limiter and side stepped the clutch with no wheel spin. His next mod was to raise the rev limiter. He was explaining that even though the 5.0 fell on its face at 5,000 rpm (almost as low as my GN) he thought the extra inertia from the rotating mass would get it off the line harder.

 

07AutoTL-S all the way! 140mph cap on actual drive, not dyno. stock setup. I now can only hit 125mph with current setup: bike racks and cargo box + 150lbs storage.

 

But....... I can do like 150 on a stock 6mt base lol

 

.......................... what?

 

que

 

oh mi gatos!!

 

Damn. Shit got real right about here.

 

Lol I've been faster that in a nearly stock prelude..

 

What's the best kind of HID bulbs for the fog lights on a Type-S?

 

^odd question to ask on a racing specific thread.

 

^^^

everyone knows 10000K HID's add 18wtq and all below 650rpm....helps for better launch and win !!!

 

yeah but if you do your own aftermarket wiring and remove the factory wire you save 0.25lbs, and then if you polish the lens and do the rain x that's like 20wtq yo

 

^^^

*runs out to the garage with bottle of lotion in one hand and rainX in the other*

 

..and don't forget vtec stickers.

 

My 2008 5at S weighed about 3400 flat on a certified scale. Stock, no weight reduction. Fuel was low but still much lighter than I thought.

Also concerning the speed issue, up to 110 I bet it would be closer than you think. I have noticed the car is noticeably faster if you manually shift it, especially on the 1-2. In auto mode the car does the 1-2 at about 6200 and falls waaaaayyyyy out of vtec, but if you hold it to redline it gets back into vtec almost right away (maybe 100rpms away). After 110 the 4th gear wall does suck. I think a tune with the limiter raised 100rpms and lowering the vtec point by a little bit.

 

My 2008 5at S weighed about 3400 flat on a certified scale. Stock, no weight reduction. Fuel was low but still much lighter than I thought.

Also concerning the speed issue, up to 110 I bet it would be closer than you think. I have noticed the car is noticeably faster if you manually shift it, especially on the 1-2. In auto mode the car does the 1-2 at about 6200 and falls waaaaayyyyy out of vtec, but if you hold it to redline it gets back into vtec almost right away (maybe 100rpms away). After 110 the 4th gear wall does suck. I think a tune with the limiter raised 100rpms and lowering the vtec point by a little bit.

 

Manually shifting the auto is the best way to achieve a good 1/4 mile time. One of the drawbacks to the auto is the longer gears & shift points, which can somewhat be changed by manually shifting. Holding it just a few hundred RPMs longer can mean a car length or so, judging by what I_Hate_Cars pointed out.

 

.

 

If you power through 1-3rd getting through 4th gear is a bit easier. Punching it at 60 or so it seems to bog down at 110. That AT 4th is absolute trash.

 

Seriously

 

Gotta pick your speed better. Under 30, 50 and 70 are great spots for 1,2,3 respectively.

 

im still confused on how acura decided on the gearing ratios for the 07-08 TL. Why did they decide to have 4th gear so far away from 3rd gear? Even a little bit closer would have helped a lot in reducing lag after shifting into 4th. And they could have kept 5th the same to still maintain good mpg.
I know the 07-08 TL(base and type S) got the transmission from the 05+ acura rl and it does seem like the RL has the same 4th gear huge rpm drop. Why???