TL Track Bound Round 2
10-06-2010, 05:07 PM
#41
Mom why is there two?
Nice setup! All of those little things add up. I've been thinking of adding spacers to the stock wheels for a while now. How did those 275s on the stock rims work out for you? People always tell me my 255s are too wide for the stock rims. I would be very interested in your setup. The Nittos I run tend to run on the narrow side. I would love it if a 275 would work ok.
10-09-2010, 09:04 AM
#42
Pics Are UP! Working on Video now too.
TL down the main straight. Hitting about 130mph
996 GT3
Ford GT
Formula Mazda and our STI
Corvette ZR1 and Panamera Turbo
Very Quick and Grippy John Copper Works Mini
New CTS-V
Viper ... brace yourself....
And now on Fire lol. Not sure why but I can't say I'm surprised
997 GT3
Moar ZR1
Nice 335i with some AMS goodies
Team mates down the straight
Short Course under the bridge
Stock 335i that didn't stand a chance
Mid Carousel, pretty tricky in a FWD
Done after a long Days work
TL down the main straight. Hitting about 130mph
996 GT3
Ford GT
Formula Mazda and our STI
Corvette ZR1 and Panamera Turbo
Very Quick and Grippy John Copper Works Mini
New CTS-V
Viper ... brace yourself....
And now on Fire lol. Not sure why but I can't say I'm surprised
997 GT3
Moar ZR1
Nice 335i with some AMS goodies
Team mates down the straight
Short Course under the bridge
Stock 335i that didn't stand a chance
Mid Carousel, pretty tricky in a FWD
Done after a long Days work
10-09-2010, 10:41 AM
#44
Well again I have to reiterate to all... this thread is not about just doing what we all know works. This is all about experimenting with different things that may or may not work, that is half the fun of track days. Last time at the track I didn't have the splitter and saw nothing this time to show me that the car was not at least the same if not better. So yes, obviously the splitter would be better served lower to the ground but with a stock front bumper and with the car's ride height where I thought it was best all around, the splitter had to be where it was.
10-09-2010, 10:48 AM
#45
Team Owner
Well again I have to reiterate to all... this thread is not about just doing what we all know works. This is all about experimenting with different things that may or may not work, that is half the fun of track days. Last time at the track I didn't have the splitter and saw nothing this time to show me that the car was not at least the same if not better. So yes, obviously the splitter would be better served lower to the ground but with a stock front bumper and with the car's ride height where I thought it was best all around, the splitter had to be where it was.
10-09-2010, 11:50 AM
#46
Well my ambition and imagination made the splitter work in the first place some maybe after a while I can direct it at making it work lower to the ground but for now it works for me.
I know this doesn't hold much weight given the huge difference in driver ability and comfort on the track but I just went through the whole video I took and here are the cars that I passed during that session. This isn't bragging at all just a list for records sake.
Subaru WRX Wagon 2:30
Mazda RX7 (Old) 7:20
Ford Spec Racer 9:30
Ford Spec Racer 11:20
Ford Spec Racer 11:22
Ford Spec Racer 14:10
Porsche Cayman S 16:40
Audi A4 18:45
Neon SRT-4 20:45
Subaru WRX 22:50
Nissan 240SX 28:20
Something 28:35
2010 Camaro SS 30:30
S2000 32:35
WRX Wagon Lapped 32:10
Still working on chopping the video up. I'm trying to work with the Sony Vegas suggested earlier but does anyone know of a very simple way to split it into three parts?
I know this doesn't hold much weight given the huge difference in driver ability and comfort on the track but I just went through the whole video I took and here are the cars that I passed during that session. This isn't bragging at all just a list for records sake.
Subaru WRX Wagon 2:30
Mazda RX7 (Old) 7:20
Ford Spec Racer 9:30
Ford Spec Racer 11:20
Ford Spec Racer 11:22
Ford Spec Racer 14:10
Porsche Cayman S 16:40
Audi A4 18:45
Neon SRT-4 20:45
Subaru WRX 22:50
Nissan 240SX 28:20
Something 28:35
2010 Camaro SS 30:30
S2000 32:35
WRX Wagon Lapped 32:10
Still working on chopping the video up. I'm trying to work with the Sony Vegas suggested earlier but does anyone know of a very simple way to split it into three parts?
10-09-2010, 01:08 PM
#48
Here is Part 1 of the video. Saving the others and uploading them soon. But here's just the first 10 mins or so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_zw0Lh4MFA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_zw0Lh4MFA
10-09-2010, 06:12 PM
#52
Mom why is there two?
LOOKS FUN.......................... Not trying to sound poopy..... But you can push that cat way harder than you are Get that front tire off the ground man.
10-09-2010, 08:43 PM
#53
Nice vids.
Get an incar cam....much better results and if aero is a concern...hanging a rig off the side of your car isnt helping anything.
Looks like you had a good time though! Just keep working and practicing/honing your skillsets!!! Often times its not the fastest car....but the best driver. Keep practicing your apex in corners....that is where you can make up time and speed!
Good posts/thread!
Get an incar cam....much better results and if aero is a concern...hanging a rig off the side of your car isnt helping anything.
Looks like you had a good time though! Just keep working and practicing/honing your skillsets!!! Often times its not the fastest car....but the best driver. Keep practicing your apex in corners....that is where you can make up time and speed!
Good posts/thread!
10-10-2010, 01:56 PM
#54
After giving your setup much thought overnight....I might be somewhat concerned about that HUGE wing on the back of your car. I get what you are trying to accomplish totally...but there are other ways to do the same thing....stickier tires (have some V710 racing slicks if your interested...selling cheap and plenty of life....) can help as well as a good suspension setup. A wing that large on you car actually in high speeds...its raising the front end of your car as a result. Wings this large on FWD cars are not overly useful...and what you may be trying to accomplish might be overshadowed by the negatives of doing so.
You have a front splitter...which should correct some of that TO A SMALL DEGREE....but its being negated somewhat IMO by the fact it sits too high off the ground.
Here is an excellent peice on spoilers that you may want to review to get a feel for what I am talking about...
http://jalopnik.com/5659723/spoiler-...y-of-downforce
Just a snippet from it....
"Sick. I'm going to put a wing on my ride, yo!"
Not so fast, Brosicle.
First, your ride is front-wheel drive. I can tell. It's also made by a company that rhymes with "Rwanda", and it's not Zonda.
Your Civic and most other hatches are front-wheel drive. A big wing on the back of a rear-wheel-drive car helps keep the rear tires glued to the road, and this makes sure the back wheels won't slip while the engine spins those wheels. However, in your front-wheel drive car, a wing will tend to lift the front of the car off the ground, and that lifts the driving wheels off the ground. That means you could lose control, and you and your homeslices will end up in a ditch.
Furthermore, aerodynamic downforce only really comes into effect at higher speeds. Downforce increases a lot as velocity increases, but doesn't really exist at lower speeds. Unless you frequently get your Civic up to higher-than-legal speeds, that wing is only going to increase drag, and that will slow you down. You're better off paying your most obese friend to ride with you.
I do applaud you for contining to try new things to improve your skillsets and performance though! I think its pretty cool...and not telling you to rip your wing off by any means (while I might consider it and look at other avenues to accomplish the same thing in suspension setup and driver technique. No wing is going to allow you to overdrive the car....its that simple. Not that this is what you are trying to do...I just question the application of this sized wing or a wing at all on a FWD car to sucessfully accomplish what you are attempting to do...create more downforce on the rear tires. How does that even out with losing traction (and thus speed) on your front wheels as a result?
Again...not knocking you at all. Just something to consider and for conversation sake I guess!
You have a front splitter...which should correct some of that TO A SMALL DEGREE....but its being negated somewhat IMO by the fact it sits too high off the ground.
Here is an excellent peice on spoilers that you may want to review to get a feel for what I am talking about...
http://jalopnik.com/5659723/spoiler-...y-of-downforce
Just a snippet from it....
"Sick. I'm going to put a wing on my ride, yo!"
Not so fast, Brosicle.
First, your ride is front-wheel drive. I can tell. It's also made by a company that rhymes with "Rwanda", and it's not Zonda.
Your Civic and most other hatches are front-wheel drive. A big wing on the back of a rear-wheel-drive car helps keep the rear tires glued to the road, and this makes sure the back wheels won't slip while the engine spins those wheels. However, in your front-wheel drive car, a wing will tend to lift the front of the car off the ground, and that lifts the driving wheels off the ground. That means you could lose control, and you and your homeslices will end up in a ditch.
Furthermore, aerodynamic downforce only really comes into effect at higher speeds. Downforce increases a lot as velocity increases, but doesn't really exist at lower speeds. Unless you frequently get your Civic up to higher-than-legal speeds, that wing is only going to increase drag, and that will slow you down. You're better off paying your most obese friend to ride with you.
I do applaud you for contining to try new things to improve your skillsets and performance though! I think its pretty cool...and not telling you to rip your wing off by any means (while I might consider it and look at other avenues to accomplish the same thing in suspension setup and driver technique. No wing is going to allow you to overdrive the car....its that simple. Not that this is what you are trying to do...I just question the application of this sized wing or a wing at all on a FWD car to sucessfully accomplish what you are attempting to do...create more downforce on the rear tires. How does that even out with losing traction (and thus speed) on your front wheels as a result?
Again...not knocking you at all. Just something to consider and for conversation sake I guess!
10-11-2010, 07:02 AM
#55
Maybe I should have reconsidered posting these threads here. I'm not trying to be rude but all this theoretical knowledge is starting to bug the crap out of me. If you want to talk about this then post your lap times with and without the mod in question and let the numbers do the talking. I still plan to do a full review on everything from this track day but I'm in the middle of a move to Florida and don't have the time right now. I want the direction of this thread to be based on actual track experience not a bunch of Google searches to ramble on about the extremely small affect of aerodynamic mods on my or anyone's TL.
The whole reason for the spoiler was to combat the slightly extreme amount of oversteer I felt at last track day. So by your civic quote logic, I didn't cause lift of the front end with the spoiler, I simply tried to help the rear end stay at the same ride height as the front when cornering at higher speeds being the car is in a slight rake stance for a whole list of other reasons.
The whole reason for the spoiler was to combat the slightly extreme amount of oversteer I felt at last track day. So by your civic quote logic, I didn't cause lift of the front end with the spoiler, I simply tried to help the rear end stay at the same ride height as the front when cornering at higher speeds being the car is in a slight rake stance for a whole list of other reasons.
10-11-2010, 08:24 AM
#56
No problem dude....good luck with that. I believe you are taking this a bit personal for gods sake. Its the intrawebz dude....god knows that means its serious business...lol. So far as my accomplishments and credentials....past SCCA Board of Directors Member, Autocross program co-chair, winner of street mod class, actually own and ran a company where we made carbon fiber spoilers/wings and various parts (so if you dont think mega R&D goes into that when making spoilers your smoking dope)....subsequently worked for another company based out of England making carbon fiber F1 parts, driver tubs, ect. internationally So ya....I would say that qualifies me to accurately comment. But if you dont want help....no problemo! I was just trying to show you a recent article on some of the basic properties of these types of things that was dumbed down so about anybody could understand it. So far as actual field testing on wings....ah...dude...the shop was positioned within about 15 minutes from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway where we did countless hours of testing on wings and effects/ different designs and effects they had on lift on a variety of applications....ah....only after England did prelim wind tunnel testing and we did the field tests in Indy on newer made designs with various modifications.
So no problem there guy! Dont listen to me. I am just telling you up front...that you are dealing with your issue in the wrong methodology and dont quite appear to get what I am trying to lead you to. There are other better ways to accomplish what you are trying to do...but surely dont listen to me. I dont know what I am talking about...lol.
Shit...I was even applauding you for trying out different stuff like this...and trying to help you out in that regard and lead you in the right direction. But since you seen to be a rocket scientist...you must know it all already. So I digress....good luck!
I dont even want to know how you are accurately testing the effects of what you are doing....by your results from one track outting to another? Not the best scenario (unless you truely are a professional driver...and I would take it from the instructor in the front seat...this isnt the case).....what you are seeing likely is your driving skillsets increasing...not effects from your wing...lol. 
So no problem there guy! Dont listen to me. I am just telling you up front...that you are dealing with your issue in the wrong methodology and dont quite appear to get what I am trying to lead you to. There are other better ways to accomplish what you are trying to do...but surely dont listen to me. I dont know what I am talking about...lol.
Shit...I was even applauding you for trying out different stuff like this...and trying to help you out in that regard and lead you in the right direction. But since you seen to be a rocket scientist...you must know it all already. So I digress....good luck!
I dont even want to know how you are accurately testing the effects of what you are doing....by your results from one track outting to another? Not the best scenario (unless you truely are a professional driver...and I would take it from the instructor in the front seat...this isnt the case).....what you are seeing likely is your driving skillsets increasing...not effects from your wing...lol.
10-11-2010, 09:13 AM
#58
Team Owner
No problem dude....good luck with that. I believe you are taking this a bit personal for gods sake. Its the intrawebz dude....god knows that means its serious business...lol. So far as my accomplishments and credentials....past SCCA Board of Directors Member, Autocross program co-chair, winner of street mod class, actually own and ran a company where we made carbon fiber spoilers/wings and various parts (so if you dont think mega R&D goes into that when making spoilers your smoking dope)....subsequently worked for another company based out of England making carbon fiber F1 parts, driver tubs, ect. internationally So ya....I would say that qualifies me to accurately comment. But if you dont want help....no problemo! I was just trying to show you a recent article on some of the basic properties of these types of things that was dumbed down so about anybody could understand it. So far as actual field testing on wings....ah...dude...the shop was positioned within about 15 minutes from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway where we did countless hours of testing on wings and effects/ different designs and effects they had on lift on a variety of applications....ah....only after England did prelim wind tunnel testing and we did the field tests in Indy on newer made designs with various modifications.
So no problem there guy! Dont listen to me. I am just telling you up front...that you are dealing with your issue in the wrong methodology and dont quite appear to get what I am trying to lead you to. There are other better ways to accomplish what you are trying to do...but surely dont listen to me. I dont know what I am talking about...lol.
Shit...I was even applauding you for trying out different stuff like this...and trying to help you out in that regard and lead you in the right direction. But since you seen to be a rocket scientist...you must know it all already. So I digress....good luck! I dont even want to know how you are accurately testing the effects of what you are doing....by your results from one track outting to another? Not the best scenario (unless you truely are a professional driver...and I would take it from the instructor in the front seat...this isnt the case).....what you are seeing likely is your driving skillsets increasing...not effects from your wing...lol.
So no problem there guy! Dont listen to me. I am just telling you up front...that you are dealing with your issue in the wrong methodology and dont quite appear to get what I am trying to lead you to. There are other better ways to accomplish what you are trying to do...but surely dont listen to me. I dont know what I am talking about...lol.
Shit...I was even applauding you for trying out different stuff like this...and trying to help you out in that regard and lead you in the right direction. But since you seen to be a rocket scientist...you must know it all already. So I digress....good luck!
I dont even want to know how you are accurately testing the effects of what you are doing....by your results from one track outting to another? Not the best scenario (unless you truely are a professional driver...and I would take it from the instructor in the front seat...this isnt the case).....what you are seeing likely is your driving skillsets increasing...not effects from your wing...lol. OP, I've never run a splitter but the basic principles of operation don't exist when it's 7" off the ground. I hear the professional teams around here talking all the time about keeping these things as close to the ground as possible.
And the wing for oversteer, didn't you say the oversteer was from raking the car? Didn't you bring the rear end down some?
10-15-2010, 06:39 PM
#59
i guess he doesnt want anyones help/experience to make his car peform better....anyway its cool what you are doing and id love to race on a track like that...but you can push the car harder through those turns...im pretty sure ive taken on/off ramps harder
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