Supercharger question?

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Old 09-21-2009, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by handsom-hustla
Another thing you can do is increase the burn rate of the combustion chamber. The goal is the faster you can make the chamber burn, the more tolerant to detonation it is. It is a very simple phenomenon, the faster it burns, the quicker the burn is completed, the less time the end gas has to detonate<<-- how do we do that?? in the previous paragraph in te article it talks about degress in spark advance? not sure if that relates or is improtant..
Burn rate can only be changed by the gas type and very little at that. The type of chamber can't be changed unless there was an aftermarket head for the J series which there isn't.

In regards to spark advance..... You want to ignite the mixture a few degrees (crankshaft degrees) before the piston hits top dead center. The goal is to initiate combustion with full pressure arriving right as the piston is hitting the top of it's stroke. If it ignites too soon, it tried to force the piston back down the wrong way, costing power and usually causing detonation. Too late and the full pressure spike hits too late in the piston's downward travel and the result is lost power and very high exhaust gas temperatures.

Spark advance is determined by a few things, the most importatant being burn rate, combustion chamber design, rpm, and load.

Here's a pretty good illustration of and in cylinder camera. Watch the sparkplug fire and how the majority of the "explosion" hits right as the piston is at the top of it's stroke. Intake valve is the right one. Exhaust is left, piston is bottom. The blue flame is what you want to see with an ideal mixture. The red flame at the intake valve is raw fuel that didn't mix well and condensed on the valve on it's way in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEf8va1S7Sw

Keep in mind at 6,000rpm, what you're watching takes place 60 times a second.
Old 09-21-2009, 05:34 PM
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^sweet vid!
Old 09-21-2009, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by trojanman10984
does the tranny cooler make a big difference??

No way I can tell, since I'm not monitoring tranny temps. I'd be lying to myself if I could say I feel better shift quality. but I also have royal purple syn ATF and the IM engine mounts make the shifts feel more solid

just an ease of mind knowing you're trans is getting that extra cooling.
Old 09-21-2009, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by I hate cars
Burn rate can only be changed by the gas type and very little at that. The type of chamber can't be changed unless there was an aftermarket head for the J series which there isn't.
Wasn't lead added to gasoline to give a more desirable burn characteristic?
Old 09-21-2009, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by KN_TL
Wasn't lead added to gasoline to give a more desirable burn characteristic?

Lead is the cheapest octane booster....

It also lubed the exhaust valve. Old cars with the softer valve seats sometimes had problems with unleaded gas.
Old 09-23-2009, 04:00 PM
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ihc. the info was very informative but how do i control the burn rate and spark advance? i was reading another post about swapping from an mdx 3.7/3.5 crank shaft is that what is needed?(You want to ignite the mixture a few degrees (crankshaft degrees)
Old 09-23-2009, 04:33 PM
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^^ also if n e one can answer some of the ?? from post 74 and 75..
Old 09-23-2009, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by handsom-hustla
^^ also if n e one can answer some of the ?? from post 74 and 75..
I'm sure IHC and Opel will comment, but you've got to do some research on how a combustion engine works. You are confusing cam/crank timing with spark timing.

Throughout the many posts, all of your questions have been answered. It's just being able to put them all together to make sense.
Old 09-23-2009, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by handsom-hustla
ihc. the info was very informative but how do i control the burn rate and spark advance? i was reading another post about swapping from an mdx 3.7/3.5 crank shaft is that what is needed?(You want to ignite the mixture a few degrees (crankshaft degrees)
Ignition timing expressed in crankshaft rotation degrees. The engineers know exactly where the piston is in the bore by the position of the crankshaft.

If ignition timing is 10 degrees BTDC (before top dead center) that means the crankshaft is at 350 degrees, 10 degrees from a full rotation and the piston would be right at the top of the bore.

Burn rate is non adjustable, it's determined primarily by the gasoline that you're using and secondary by the combustion chamber design.

Spark advance is controlled by the computer and is non-adjustable. In my experience it's very aggressive already, almost too aggressive so there's nothing to gain there. In the older cars, especially the 5.0 Mustang crowd, advancing the timing was one of the first things they did and would usually pick up 10+hp from this free mod. On ours the computer is constantly trying to give us max performance.

Swapping the crank would mean the piston will move farther up and down (longer stroke), giving you a larger engine. It doesn't effect the burn rate.
Old 09-23-2009, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by handsom-hustla
high output engines are prone to destructive tendencies as a result of over boost, misfueling, mis-tuning and inadequate cooling. chamber combustion process can quickly gravitate to engine failure. Detonation is a spontaneous combustion of the end-gas and occurs after "normal" combustion is initiated by the spark plug. the reason is likely due to heat and pressure. The remaining fuel in the end gas simply lacks sufficient octane rating to withstand this combination of heat and pressure. <-- this is were the meth comes in?by raising the octane? what is meant by normal combustion. and im guessing the boost is what makes it a high combustion?? also i believe opel recomended spark plugs 2 steps colder then stock/ or the ct sprk plugs. will this lower high combustion??


First lets start with what normal combustion means. In means all the fuel is burned by being mixed with the exact right about of air to fuel on N/A or non forced induction cars this mixture is 14.7 air units to 1 fuel unit. On a FI car that ratio is a slightly lower air to fuel or AFR of about 12-13 air units to Fuel units, to provide the extra fuel to accompany the increased in air in the cylinder or boost.

The compression ratio or how much the air is squezzed from original size is always the same on non FI cars. FI cars since they are being force fed air have a compression ratio of the engines compression ratio from the factory plus the amount or PSI of the boost beeing added.

I don't know anything about spark plugs so I will leave that to someone else.

As far as you questions about methanol, Snow Performance claims that even in a 50/50 mix it raises the octane to 116. I think with straight meth injection the mixture is closer to 130 octane.
Old 09-23-2009, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Hi speed
First lets start with what normal combustion means. In means all the fuel is burned by being mixed with the exact right about of air to fuel on N/A or non forced induction cars this mixture is 14.7 air units to 1 fuel unit. On a FI car that ratio is a slightly lower air to fuel or AFR of about 12-13 air units to Fuel units, to provide the extra fuel to accompany the increased in air in the cylinder or boost.

The compression ratio or how much the air is squezzed from original size is always the same on non FI cars. FI cars since they are being force fed air have a compression ratio of the engines compression ratio from the factory plus the amount or PSI of the boost beeing added.

I don't know anything about spark plugs so I will leave that to someone else.

As far as you questions about methanol, Snow Performance claims that even in a 50/50 mix it raises the octane to 116. I think with straight meth injection the mixture is closer to 130 octane.
The effective compression ratio goes up with boost because you're starting with a much denser mix. While the mechanical compression ratio stays the same, the cylinder pressure on the compression stroke goes up considerably under boost. This is why it requires more octane because it has the same octane requirements as a higher mechanical ratio.

AF is exactly that, the air/fuel ratio. FI runs a richer mixture to avoid detionation otherwise AF is AF supercharged or NA.
Old 09-23-2009, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by KN_TL
Throughout the many posts, all of your questions have been answered. It's just being able to put them all together to make sense.
^^ that is probably right. im basically learning things from scratch so please bare with me. so apologies to repetitive questions. thanks to all that are trying to help with the info and their patience.

again i got a nite class to attend. hopefully i can come to a beter understanding later and ask more knowledgeable questions.. thanks
Old 09-23-2009, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by handsom-hustla
^^ that is probably right. im basically learning things from scratch so please bare with me. so apologies to repetitive questions. thanks to all that are trying to help with the info and their patience.

again i got a nite class to attend. hopefully i can come to a beter understanding later and ask more knowledgeable questions.. thanks
I have a question for you...
what exactly are you trying to accomplish with your car?
Old 09-23-2009, 05:49 PM
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As a kid, I had MX 2 stroke bikes that we used to make jet adjustments by the color of the plug insulator. Not sure how close that was to 14.7:1 AF ratio and I've seen several motorsports types that use a eyepiece to inspect the plugs. Are they looking at the plugs like we would back then?

Does anyone use that method along with using a wideband o2 sensor?

Also, how do you know your sensor is calibrated correctly?
Old 09-23-2009, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by KN_TL
As a kid, I had MX 2 stroke bikes that we used to make jet adjustments by the color of the plug insulator. Not sure how close that was to 14.7:1 AF ratio and I've seen several motorsports types that use a eyepiece to inspect the plugs. Are they looking at the plugs like we would back then?

Does anyone use that method along with using a wideband o2 sensor?

Also, how do you know your sensor is calibrated correctly?
honestly...the best afr is when you stop making power! so a wideband can be off...EGT also isn't the best method either... so it simply ends where you stop making power
Old 09-23-2009, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Opel
I have a question for you...
what exactly are you trying to accomplish with your car?
a reliable "complete" dd s/c tl. i am not trying to build a race car here. i dont expect to beat these 600lb turbo civics and what not either. my first thing is to put it in "right". not to have to upgrade/change anything in the near future. make it as relaible as possible so that im not fixing it everyday. try and understand its limits and expexctations. see what i can improve/adjust before i put it in.(engine & trans mechanics) supporting mods and also most importantly understand what is excactly happining w/ boost/combustion/detonation. my goal wuld initially be early to mid 300 whp & hp with the mindframe of increasing in the future.

i could have just bought it bc of the name(as u stated) and put it in and thought evreythings all good. or i could just ask hey what r u running and buy it and put it in and not know why or what it was for. 6 months ago i new how to change oil and put in gas. now im talkin about cr and all this other wonderful money draining stuff. i overly extend my appretiation to any one that wants to help..thanks..
Old 09-24-2009, 02:12 AM
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Rsx injectors, 255 walbro fuel pump, Snow Performance stage II FI water/meth injection (run 225 mil/min nozzle), 2 steps colder than stock NGK Iridium spark plugs, AEM F/IC .

anyone who runs FI, cats gotta go!!!! they put up too much back pressure, and catback upgrade is a must...not for power gains but for the sake of your motor!

ive mentioned these things numerous times...
But here i am, repeating it over and over again.

you gotta understand..once you start messing with a car...reliability is decreased....so dont expect a flawless supercharged TL, because it doesnt exist, and it never will...
If nothing else, the change in the way you will drive it with be a simple source of things failing. unless you are one of those guys that builds a car, puts tremendous amounts of money in it, and locks it up in the garage, all that just to say "I have it".... and i know plenty
Old 09-24-2009, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mrlunecy
No way I can tell, since I'm not monitoring tranny temps. I'd be lying to myself if I could say I feel better shift quality. but I also have royal purple syn ATF and the IM engine mounts make the shifts feel more solid

just an ease of mind knowing you're trans is getting that extra cooling.
how much does a trans cooler usually run? might consider loooking into it
Old 09-24-2009, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by I hate cars
Lead is the cheapest octane booster....

It also lubed the exhaust valve. Old cars with the softer valve seats sometimes had problems with unleaded gas.
yes, most of the older cars that came with bronze valve seats, had to switch them out for steel when leaded gas was fazed out =/
Old 09-24-2009, 02:35 PM
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[quote=Opel;11342070]Rsx injectors, 255 walbro fuel pump, Snow Performance stage II FI water/meth injection (run 225 mil/min nozzle), 2 steps colder than stock NGK Iridium spark plugs, AEM F/IC .

anyone who runs FI, cats gotta go!!!! they put up too much back pressure, and catback upgrade is a must...not for power gains but for the sake of your motor!

ive mentioned these things numerous times...
But here i am, repeating it over and over again.

you gotta understand..once you start messing with a car...reliability is decreased....so dont expect a flawless supercharged TL, because it doesnt exist, and it never will...

^ i dont recall reading something about the cats or the fuel pump with the s/c(maybe i missed it) you have mentioned some of things before, but like i said im trying to understand what things do and how they work.. not just read it,buy it, and put it in just to say i have it. i am admitting to not knowing much but with time i will. it may be slowly but i feel i know much more then when i started. i understand maintanance will be necessary but i would like to do what i can in the begining to have it put in "right" i dont plan on babying the car either but nj is no joke w these tickets.( had 12 points with everything stock) it will not be pushed everyday u often enuff for me. if any one doesnt have the paitence to help me with my ? simply dont answer them. i have every single s/c thread on my deskop so i am trying to research the topic but there is still some things i dont understand. thanks.
Old 09-24-2009, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by trojanman10984
how much does a trans cooler usually run? might consider loooking into it

^^ this should b of help.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/transmission-cooler-732505/#post11190178
Old 09-24-2009, 03:12 PM
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i found a really good page on fuel injection.. just thought i would throw it out there..

http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx
Old 09-24-2009, 03:17 PM
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That's a good reference, I've used it before. IMO, something everyone should look at before going FI.
Old 09-26-2009, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by I hate cars
That's a good reference, I've used it before. IMO, something everyone should look at before going FI.
wow guys, lots a good reading here..thanks alot..i just learned more..
damn now im scared to drive my car..lol
dont wanna blow it again..
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