Supercharger Porting?
03-07-2011, 12:28 PM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
Supercharger Porting?
A friend of mine got his Roush Supercharger ported and recommended I did the same. He tells me the entire process gained him an additional 30whp. I am totally unfamiliar with this process. Has anyone gotten this done before? Here is the link to the company that does it:
http://www.stiegemeier.com/
http://www.stiegemeier.com/
Last edited by LasVegasTL; 03-07-2011 at 12:32 PM.
03-07-2011, 02:07 PM
#5
There are many different opinions and views regarding how to modify the M-Series, roots type, superchargers made by Eaton. In a recent discussion on another forum, a lot of information was uncovered, along with a solid contact within the Eaton Corporation itself. This thread will outline the findings and what is recommended by the manufacturer itself.
Both the M62 and M90 (most common on this site) are at their peak efficiency levels from the factory. Although running a smaller pulley is the easiest way to generate more power with these applications, it is also the easiest way to push the blower out of its efficiency range and produce gobs of heat. Heat, as you know, is the enemy of all F/I applications. Roots type superchargers, although extremely reliable, are the least efficient due to their drag on the engine by belt as well as their tendency to generate good amounts of heat in regards to the IAT (Intake Air Temperature). Eaton addressed some of these issues when they created their new line of TVS blowers; however, this thread is only concerned with the M-series blowers.
From Eaton.com:
"Eaton manufactures highly engineered, roots-type positive displacement superchargers. The Eaton supercharger increases torque across the entire operating range without compromising drivability or emissions. This allows vehicle manufacturers the option of using smaller, more economical 4- and 6-cylinder engines, without perceived loss in power train performance. Additionally, the supercharger incorporates a bypass system to reduce air handling losses when boost is not required, resulting in better fuel economy. Typical applications are on engines with displacements of 1.8L to 5.3L.
All aftermarket and service (rebuilds) are handled in the United States by Magnuson Products, (www.magnusonproducts.com) and in the Oceania-Asia-Pacific region by Harrop Engineering. (www.harrop.com)
The Eaton Supercharger - One Simple, Powerful Solution.
Eaton’s Air Management Systems Division designs, manufactures and markets modified Roots-type positive displacement pumps, also known as “superchargers,” for the original equipment and aftermarket industries."
Both the M62 and M90 (most common on this site) are at their peak efficiency levels from the factory. Although running a smaller pulley is the easiest way to generate more power with these applications, it is also the easiest way to push the blower out of its efficiency range and produce gobs of heat. Heat, as you know, is the enemy of all F/I applications. Roots type superchargers, although extremely reliable, are the least efficient due to their drag on the engine by belt as well as their tendency to generate good amounts of heat in regards to the IAT (Intake Air Temperature). Eaton addressed some of these issues when they created their new line of TVS blowers; however, this thread is only concerned with the M-series blowers.
From Eaton.com:
"Eaton manufactures highly engineered, roots-type positive displacement superchargers. The Eaton supercharger increases torque across the entire operating range without compromising drivability or emissions. This allows vehicle manufacturers the option of using smaller, more economical 4- and 6-cylinder engines, without perceived loss in power train performance. Additionally, the supercharger incorporates a bypass system to reduce air handling losses when boost is not required, resulting in better fuel economy. Typical applications are on engines with displacements of 1.8L to 5.3L.
All aftermarket and service (rebuilds) are handled in the United States by Magnuson Products, (www.magnusonproducts.com) and in the Oceania-Asia-Pacific region by Harrop Engineering. (www.harrop.com)
The Eaton Supercharger - One Simple, Powerful Solution.
Eaton’s Air Management Systems Division designs, manufactures and markets modified Roots-type positive displacement pumps, also known as “superchargers,” for the original equipment and aftermarket industries."
03-07-2011, 02:08 PM
#6
When it comes to modification of these superchargers, the common areas of modification are:
Porting of the inlet portion of the housing
Porting of the internal housing
Porting of the outlet plate of the housing
Porting or Plugging of the "holes" on the outlet plate
Running a smaller pulley
Heat reduction, supporting modifications
The basic idea here is to increase CFM without raising IAT's. As most people on this site drive vehicles with the LSJ engine, M62 application, I will focus on that. These basic principles can be carried over to any other application using an M-Series blower. It should be noted, that the M-series superchargers are effectively air pumps. They do not internally compress the air themselves, but push it into the lower intake manifold. It is in the lower intake manifold that positive pressure emerges. Most folks think Eaton's roots-type units are actually squeezing the air like a screw unit. This is not the truth. No air passes between the rotors, the air is guided by the rotors along the sides of the housing; hence, no internal compression of air.
Porting the M-Series Supercharger:
It is not a good idea to remove too much material from any portion of the blower. Extreme porting of the blower will disrupt the air and will reduce efficiency greatly. A light porting of the inlet housing will help increase intake CFM of the pump. Typically, if a TB (throttle-body) upgrade is available, it helps to match the TB port size to the inlet port for a smooth intake of air with minimal disruption. Smoothing this opening up and enlarging it slightly will help introduce more air into the rotor housing which can then be "pushed" into the lower intake manifold. The inside of the housing can also be lightly ported to increase internal surface area. It is important to note, that internal porting of the rotor housing should be very minimal. Basically, remove any and all casting flashes and ensure complete symmetry while removing as little material as possible. Removing too much material will interfere with air flow and the functionality of the rotors. The output plate at the base of the M62 housing is what can be modified the most. This plate has one large triangular and two small oval passages in it. Right now, we'll focus on the large triangle. This is the passage that air is pushed through by the rotors to create a positive pressure in the lower intake manifold. This passage can be opened up slightly and smoothed out for best flow. Opening it up too much will also disrupt airflow. This is the most porting that should be performed on an Eaton M-Series blower to maintain efficiency.
Porting of the inlet portion of the housing
Porting of the internal housing
Porting of the outlet plate of the housing
Porting or Plugging of the "holes" on the outlet plate
Running a smaller pulley
Heat reduction, supporting modifications
The basic idea here is to increase CFM without raising IAT's. As most people on this site drive vehicles with the LSJ engine, M62 application, I will focus on that. These basic principles can be carried over to any other application using an M-Series blower. It should be noted, that the M-series superchargers are effectively air pumps. They do not internally compress the air themselves, but push it into the lower intake manifold. It is in the lower intake manifold that positive pressure emerges. Most folks think Eaton's roots-type units are actually squeezing the air like a screw unit. This is not the truth. No air passes between the rotors, the air is guided by the rotors along the sides of the housing; hence, no internal compression of air.
Porting the M-Series Supercharger:
It is not a good idea to remove too much material from any portion of the blower. Extreme porting of the blower will disrupt the air and will reduce efficiency greatly. A light porting of the inlet housing will help increase intake CFM of the pump. Typically, if a TB (throttle-body) upgrade is available, it helps to match the TB port size to the inlet port for a smooth intake of air with minimal disruption. Smoothing this opening up and enlarging it slightly will help introduce more air into the rotor housing which can then be "pushed" into the lower intake manifold. The inside of the housing can also be lightly ported to increase internal surface area. It is important to note, that internal porting of the rotor housing should be very minimal. Basically, remove any and all casting flashes and ensure complete symmetry while removing as little material as possible. Removing too much material will interfere with air flow and the functionality of the rotors. The output plate at the base of the M62 housing is what can be modified the most. This plate has one large triangular and two small oval passages in it. Right now, we'll focus on the large triangle. This is the passage that air is pushed through by the rotors to create a positive pressure in the lower intake manifold. This passage can be opened up slightly and smoothed out for best flow. Opening it up too much will also disrupt airflow. This is the most porting that should be performed on an Eaton M-Series blower to maintain efficiency.
03-07-2011, 02:10 PM
#7
The two oval slots on the output plate are air leakage ports. Their only purpose is to decrease operational noise from the blower. Arnie, from Eaton Corp., explains their function like this, "When you stomp on the gas, the boost shoots up and the air flow goes supersonic. The air then slams back into the output plate and through the leakage slots, which reduces the hammering of the air into the housing causing less noise. The OEM can not have such loud NVH, that’s why we put them in the housing. The 2 small ports are not there to feed air, only to reduce noise." Basically, for the best flow and most efficiency, these ports can be blocked off, making the outlet port (triangle slot) the only port on the outlet plate of the housing. Closing these ports will not increase IAT's; however, it will make the supercharger much louder when in boost. As an example, aftermarket supercharger companies, such as Harrop, Roush and Magnuson do not use these slots in their blowers. It should be re-stated, that you should consult professionals regarding closing these ports; and do not, for any reason, plug them with JB Weld. Improper closure could eventually lead to pieces coming apart and loose debris destroying the rotors and housing. Opening up these ports will only have a negative effect on efficiency. Do not port them.
Please take TVS_SS' comment into consideration while modifying your Eaton Supercharger. If you choose to close the leakage ports, do so knowing the risks and consult professionals like Magnuson, Harrop or Eaton before making final decisions.
Arnie, as mentioned earlier, is Eaton's Performance Products Training Instructor and has made himself and his team available for questions regarding their product and modifying it for best performance. Please visit http://www.eatonperformance.com and you will see an area "Ask the Experts." Any questions will be answered as best as possible as time permits (they receive 100's of questions a day).
Please take TVS_SS' comment into consideration while modifying your Eaton Supercharger. If you choose to close the leakage ports, do so knowing the risks and consult professionals like Magnuson, Harrop or Eaton before making final decisions.
Arnie, as mentioned earlier, is Eaton's Performance Products Training Instructor and has made himself and his team available for questions regarding their product and modifying it for best performance. Please visit http://www.eatonperformance.com and you will see an area "Ask the Experts." Any questions will be answered as best as possible as time permits (they receive 100's of questions a day).
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03-07-2011, 02:11 PM
#8
Heat Reduction, Supporting Modifications:
The increased IAT's created by running smaller supercharger pulleys can be prevented by using several available heat reduction modifications. These modifications are the dual-pass endplate for the lower intake manifold, secondary heat exchanger, and methanol/alcohol injection. At the very least, increased cooling by running the dual-pass endplate and a secondary heat exchanger should be used when running pulleys smaller than stock. These cooling modifications will help reduce higher IAT's that may cause detonation and possible serious outcomes like blown engines. It is important to use an AFR (Air/Fuel Ratio) gauge when modifying the supercharger to make sure you maintain proper AFR and do not go too rich/lean. It is also highly recommended that you get a dyno tune after any modification to the engine to optimize performance and ensure safety.
The increased IAT's created by running smaller supercharger pulleys can be prevented by using several available heat reduction modifications. These modifications are the dual-pass endplate for the lower intake manifold, secondary heat exchanger, and methanol/alcohol injection. At the very least, increased cooling by running the dual-pass endplate and a secondary heat exchanger should be used when running pulleys smaller than stock. These cooling modifications will help reduce higher IAT's that may cause detonation and possible serious outcomes like blown engines. It is important to use an AFR (Air/Fuel Ratio) gauge when modifying the supercharger to make sure you maintain proper AFR and do not go too rich/lean. It is also highly recommended that you get a dyno tune after any modification to the engine to optimize performance and ensure safety.
03-07-2011, 02:15 PM
#9
Sorry i couldn't edit to much. Sent from IPhone. I didna quick search and was reading over this. It basically explains everything in regards to the eaton blowers Which are rebuilt by magnuson who makes the m62 and 'm90. Roush I believe is a "different" type of blower. Here's a start. GL.
03-07-2011, 04:58 PM
#10
If you're using the SC black box, I would leave it alone.
There will be a few AEM F/IC-6's available fairly soon so you could tune that route or go with the new ECU like some of us are doing.
I have an 06 as well but it's an MT. You'd have to check to see if there are any differences in the ECU pinout if you have an AT.
There will be a few AEM F/IC-6's available fairly soon so you could tune that route or go with the new ECU like some of us are doing.
I have an 06 as well but it's an MT. You'd have to check to see if there are any differences in the ECU pinout if you have an AT.
03-07-2011, 05:49 PM
#11
I too don't think the black box would work, being many already dont like it to begin w. For the flying lead harness for the fic I believe they are different between at and mt as well.
05-06-2011, 05:01 PM
#13
yo..
I know blocking the ports makes the blower twice as loud...but not much difference in power(big difference in noise)...only difference noticed is that the heat of the blower and the iat heat builds quicker....
(this was on a m62)
Can someone ask the instructor if using a diff output plate or a diff inlet would yield more flow?
I always felt like the inlet was kind of small on both m62 and m90....
(this was on a m62)
Can someone ask the instructor if using a diff output plate or a diff inlet would yield more flow?
I always felt like the inlet was kind of small on both m62 and m90....
Last edited by bdbconcepts; 05-06-2011 at 05:07 PM.
05-10-2011, 09:32 AM
#15
Three Wheelin'
I was wondering if anyone on here has:
1. Switched from the black box (ASM) and to AEM F/I C yet and if they were able to squeeze any more power out of the kit safely.
2. Run a meth kit with this kit and again if they noticed a power difference.
I am use to the power already and would like to up the power but i want to do it right and safely. I have read bad things about the HBP so i bought a F/I C and was going to hook up a Meth kit in the intake elbow so it blows it directly into the intake manifold. Any help would be great!
1. Switched from the black box (ASM) and to AEM F/I C yet and if they were able to squeeze any more power out of the kit safely.
2. Run a meth kit with this kit and again if they noticed a power difference.
I am use to the power already and would like to up the power but i want to do it right and safely. I have read bad things about the HBP so i bought a F/I C and was going to hook up a Meth kit in the intake elbow so it blows it directly into the intake manifold. Any help would be great!
05-11-2011, 10:47 AM
#16
I was wondering if anyone on here has:
1. Switched from the black box (ASM) and to AEM F/I C yet and if they were able to squeeze any more power out of the kit safely.
2. Run a meth kit with this kit and again if they noticed a power difference.
I am use to the power already and would like to up the power but i want to do it right and safely. I have read bad things about the HBP so i bought a F/I C and was going to hook up a Meth kit in the intake elbow so it blows it directly into the intake manifold. Any help would be great!
1. Switched from the black box (ASM) and to AEM F/I C yet and if they were able to squeeze any more power out of the kit safely.
2. Run a meth kit with this kit and again if they noticed a power difference.
I am use to the power already and would like to up the power but i want to do it right and safely. I have read bad things about the HBP so i bought a F/I C and was going to hook up a Meth kit in the intake elbow so it blows it directly into the intake manifold. Any help would be great!
2)yes 04accordcpe and others have done this also...
3)hbp....I don't know any that has done this mod at all...
05-11-2011, 01:00 PM
#17
You will yield more gains def with the fic over the acm. As far as meth we mainly use it for extra safety precautions but with a tune you should be able to yield additional hp. I k ow alot of guys where blowing there engines with the hbp but they may have been run in the acm. I have not heard of any good reviews from the hbp. That's something you will have to ask ur tuner about. Also with the meth kit make sure u buy the selenoid so ur not sucking in meth at idle. For any fi meth is a must. Even though ur only at 5 psi.
Does any one have any input or experiences w porting of the blower?
Does any one have any input or experiences w porting of the blower?
05-11-2011, 02:28 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
I bought the Snow Meth Kit for Boost, it has a boost selenoid that only applies meth under boost, but it says its good for 6-15 lbs of boost and as far as my AEM True Boost Gauge reads i am only making 2-3? I have read about bad things with the HBP but i never read a single thread where someone was using an F/I C to propely tune or using meth. I may just add meth and leave the rest alone but i know ill want more at some point.
What i dont understand is the J&R turbo people are running 10-12 lbs but if we put the HBP to get 8-10 we blow our motors... thats why i assume its all due to the ACM.
What i dont understand is the J&R turbo people are running 10-12 lbs but if we put the HBP to get 8-10 we blow our motors... thats why i assume its all due to the ACM.
Last edited by Comptechtl2367; 05-11-2011 at 02:32 PM.
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